Sovereign wrote:
Lol everything about the Cult is minor factions.

Basically <_< And Nosferatiel intentionally said nothing about units in order to not influence part 2 of the contest. So what the hell he means with that? Nereid entry seems like its not finished because competition ended right after Veronica posted it and it sure doesn't contain unit descriptions

Nereides seems like a cool concept but it was so incomplete and patchy to me that I couldn't bring myself to vote for it. imo it doesn't have the sense of direction that I feel the Eternal End does.

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
Nereides seems like a cool concept but it was so incomplete and patchy to me that I couldn't bring myself to vote for it. imo it doesn't have the sense of direction that I feel the Eternal End does.

Yeah, I understand that. Still, I liked the idea of what they do with minor factions and assuming that designers in part 2 are awesome and make them look cool instead of mermaids... Plus I think devs have ideas of what to do with slavery mechanic



Though I have to admit that even though I like them... If nereids win, it will feel like a fluke to some people since entry seems incomplete, author has only one post in the whole thing and probably hasn't even checked forum after posting the entry and only reason they stood out was Nos' amazon description(yeah, they are basically amazons, whats with slavery and female only thing, but author didn't use that term) and the fact they were final option in the poll. So I guess Cultist "deserve" in a sense to win more since there was more effort put into them than Nereids, but I do think Nereids have a lot of potential... But yeah, this situation could have been avoided if poll had been done better. If nereids hadn't had the good visible position in the poll, maybe some other faction with more effort put into it would have been in g2g along with Cultists.



(And yeah, I do believe that some of votes did come from Nos' idea being first in the poll, but I see that Nos has been in g2g in the past and effort put into Cultist hints to me that he had good chance of getting there even without first position in the poll. Nereids on other hand seem like they couldn't have gotten to top three without poll position. Does that make sense? This is why I was actually pissed off about nereids being in top three earlier in poll thread before I warmed up on them and started to like them)

Sry do be a douche but i have to be honest.



i have some other issues with the Nereides.



People join and people leave a community. They will play other Games and move on, and there are always just some dozens of players who stay in one community for many many years and becoming part of its fundament.



Veronica has 1 Post (her proposal) and was not online during the last 6 Days.



I dont see someone, who doesnt even wanted to know if she is in the final G2G round, becoming a sustain part of the community. But whos then gonna to extend the lore of the race?



I think she just fudged her proposal never thinking about she could actually win, got the lucky No. 99 at the end of the list (so any one who voted was forced to see her race) and there fore many bonus votes.



I want someone who will be guaranteed over the next years a active part of the community.



Someone who will not stop extending the lore of his race !

Someone who is always concerned about the game, its balance and its community.



And Nosferatiel is the only one who can provide this to this community.

To be fair, we can't prevent contestants on basis of their forum activity. I mean, we can't expect someone to be part of the community forever just because of the contest. I do admit that I wouldn't be surprised if devs end up doing all the work themselves(they would probably like that since they don't need to be afraid of angering competitor) in the end because they can't get in contact with Veronica... Like I said, some people will see (for good reasons) it as fluke if they win. But ultimately it is the polls fault if half asses proposals proposals can win. After all, alternative would be to blame community itself for voting nereids into g2g in first place and in event of them winning g2g it would be community's fault as well. So unless you want to blame people for liking the idea(just because its really short doesn't mean that its bad by itself. Simple is sometimes really good. The fact that grammar is bad and confusing makes it seem like entry was cut off by thread getting locked before it was finished), you'd have to blame poll itself for allowing such scenario to be possible. This isn't a popularity poll of the users, its popularity poll of the idea. But I have to admit that it this is really surreal situation, I thought cultists would win for sure ._.; I wonder why Nereids are so surprisingly popular... I understand why they did well in first poll, but this second one is confusing me



But yeah. If devs had picked their favourites, we wouldn't have situation were proposal that had much less effort put into it than other idea that has clearly had long time of effort put into it would be competing head to head about inclusion to the game.

Have you read the Cult entry? It contains both heroes (Quest 2) and the quest line (Quest 3). It's a stronger entry because it didn't follow the contest's requirements of NOT adding those bits because they would be second and third Contests. I think a lot of entries would have been stronger if they also had included quests and heroes and not followed the rules.



Nerieds theme doesn't have anything to do with Minor Factions. It's an aquatic Faction with a few Minor Faction mechanics tacked on so that it technically fit the requirements of the contest, but it is not what the contest asked for. Since most of the entries did that, I don't think I can fault them, but I think more enties would have been more interesting if they also had not tried to actually make a Faction thematically focused on Minor Factions.



The Star Dreamers literally have nothing to do with Minor Factions. There is no argument for why they should have been allowed to take votes from other entries or bump out another entry from the top three.

K__ wrote:
Have you read the Cult entry? It contains both heroes (Quest 2) and the quest line (Quest 3). It's a stronger entry because it didn't follow the contest's requirements of NOT adding those bits because they would be second and third Contests. I think a lot of entries would have been stronger if they also had included quests and heroes and not followed the rules.



Nerieds theme doesn't have anything to do with Minor Factions. It's an aquatic Faction with a few Minor Faction mechanics tacked on so that it technically fit the requirements of the contest, but it is not what the contest asked for. Since most of the entries did that, I don't think I can fault them, but I think more enties would have been more interesting if they also had not tried to actually make a Faction thematically focused on Minor Factions.



The Star Dreamers literally have nothing to do with Minor Factions. There is no argument for why they should have been allowed to take votes from other entries or bump out another entry from the top three.

If you talk about unspoken and queen, they aren't heroes. Nor playable units. And really, how about you list those units he said? And wasn't part 3 the logo of the faction and ship design?...



Quest 2: Hero, Units and City



Submit your Hero, Units and City based on the winning Biography.

Vote for your favourite proposal in the forum polls.

The best three submissions will be chosen for a GAMES2GETHER vote.





Quest 3: Logo and Ship



Submit your Logo and Ship based on the winning Biography, Hero, Units and City.

Vote for your favourite proposal in the forum polls.

The best three submissions will be chosen for a GAMES2GETHER vote."



Nothing about part 3 says about quest.



Nereids still have more mf mechanics than majority of entries, most of them simply got bonuses for them, at least nereids have slavery aspect and get alternative thing for not slaving them.

ResonanceMask wrote:
If you talk about unspoken and queen, they aren't heroes. Nor playable units. And really, how about you list those units he said? And wasn't part 3 the logo of the faction and ship design?...

You got me. He only used Quest 2 material to make his entry stronger. He included the biographies of two heroes, listed units (all Minor Faction units), and outlined the quests.

K__ wrote:
You got me. He only used Quest 2 material to make his entry stronger. He included the biographies of two heroes, listed units (all Minor Faction units), and outlined the quests.

Again, Unspoken and Queen are intended to be questgivers/leaders of the faction you don't play as and don't use units. (I know this very strongly since I thought previously they were supposed to be POV player characters until Nos corrected me on that ^^; ) <_< One of them is immobile. How that would work as hero unit? Also, you didn't list the minor faction units... He mentioned robots and those slug constructor things, but those aren't units, they are potential thing to create units from.

Further gameplay abilities



The cult has racial technologies allowing to upgrade spawning barbarian and especially Holy Retaliation armies

Generally, they can only trade for most strategic resources or luxury resources - or gather them via quests

If they declare war by themselves onto anyone, there is no Holy retaliation and no revolt

They can build the units of all minor civilizations they have at least one convert of

Their own higher tech units are robotic Endless warmachines in a rather deplorable state: very powerful, but also consuming lots of strategic resources - only researchable via their main quest

So, there are the units.



We can disagree about the heroes, but I see two biographies of heroes when I read his entry.



That being said, does it matter? He DEFINITELY included the quests, and that was part of of the second Contest. Why was he not disqualified?



The only answer that I can see is that the rules and requirements don't actually matter. Maybe people should post Broken Lords or Necrophage heroes for the Quest 2 contest because it's not like the rules or the requirements seem to matter.

He didn't say that they only have minor faction units <_<

@K__ there is no mention in the rules PDF that the Quest 1 entry can't include suggestions/ideas for Quests 2 and 3. Nos didn't "break the rules" as you keep saying...



EDIT: Forgot to say, wrt:

Sovereign wrote:
Sry do be a douche but i have to be honest.



i have some other issues with the Nereides.



People join and people leave a community. They will play other Games and move on, and there are just always some dozens of players who stay in one community for many many years and becoming part of its fundament.



Veronica has 1 Post (her proposal) and was not online during the last 6 Days.



I dont see someone, who doesnt even wanted to know if she is in the final G2G round, becoming a sustain part of the community. But whos then gonna to extend the lore of the race?



I think she just fudged her proposal never thinking about she could actually win, got the lucky 99. and there fore many bonus votes.



I want someone who will be guaranteed over the next years a active part of the community.



Someone who will not stop extending the lore of his race !

Someone who is always concerned about the game, its balance and its community.

I got to agree. +1

Seek wrote:
@K__ there is no mention in the rules PDF that the Quest 1 entry can't include suggestions/ideas for Quests 2 and 3. Nos didn't "break the rules" as you keep saying...

^ This.



But really, if it comes down to an over complete idea vs. an under complete idea, I would rather vote for a faction where I know what the end result will be, rather than what I think it will be.



And keep in mind there were many other factions more worthy of disqualification than the Cultists.



But keep cool guys. Its all about the concept.



@Sovereign: I agree. I don't think veronica ever meant to submit a complete idea. But being last on the pole may have allowed the idea to resonate...

No matter what we may say or feel about it now, the game is not the finished product, nor is the winning faction from the competition. The dev team made it crystal clear that the winning faction would be adapted to the game mechanics and style.



The competition was to find a winning idea for a faction, not the final implementation of a faction. So reading what was proposed is only going to give a very general idea of the final faction and is not fixed.



There are 2 further quests to go to help flesh out the winning faction and even then the dev team will alter as is necessary.

Seek wrote:
@K__ there is no mention in the rules PDF that the Quest 1 entry can't include suggestions/ideas for Quests 2 and 3. Nos didn't "break the rules" as you keep saying...

Part 5.1 of the PDF outlines what the Quest 1 entry should contain, no more and no less. Part 5.2 tells you what is supposed to be in Quest II.



He entered Quest II material into Quest I. He didn't follow the rules.



Since his entry was accepted, this sets a precedent for everyone else. Feel free to enter Broken Lords heroes into Quest II or even a new Faction from Quest I. Add Logos or ships from Quest III. Go crazy because the rules are not being followed.

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
if it comes down to an over complete idea vs. an under complete idea

I personally think of it as simple idea vs detailed idea. I mean, reason why nereids comes across as unfinished is lack of polish, the grammar and author notes that imply that author was going to edit it more later. But all basic ideas are there so its in a way complete in sense that it has all necessary stuff that you need to know about the faction to have opinion on it. It just has really unimpressive presentation compared to Nos' faction amount of lore and gameplay detail so it looks even worse as comparison.



This makes me kinda depressed -_-; I can't decide if this poll is exciting or depressing. Its kinda exciting because there are two leads competing head to head, but it gets depressing when you realize that one of them wouldn't have gotten into g2g without poll being bad and that it feels like it didn't take as much effort as other one... I wonder if nereids is getting votes because voters are like me actually like the idea in its simplicity... Or is there some other reason? There are so many possible reasons for why idea is getting vote but... Ugh, I have no clue how to analyze it. I feel like intuitively that the effort with most work in it should be doing the best obviously, but the fact is that two factions are competing so I don't know why it is that they are being equals.

ResonanceMask wrote:
I mean, reason why nereids comes across as unfinished is lack of polish, the grammar and author notes that imply that author was going to edit it more later.

I kind of agree with you here. But you can't plan or even imply that you are going to polish it and then submit it right before the thread closes.

This makes me kinda depressed -_-; I can't decide if this poll is exciting or depressing. .

Really? I feel nothing but depression. I hate to see the community like this! (me included hehe) We are arguing over rules and details and concepts. Remember the Automatons Competiton? That was fun and exciting. All the authors put genuine care and work into their factions because it was their idea not because they felt a need to win. And the three final competitors were happy for each other, even after Panzer won by a hair.



I hate to say this but I think Amp put too much on the line for this competition. The weight of it all is making people tense.

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
I kind of agree with you here. But you can't plan or even imply that you are going to polish it and then submit it right before the thread closes.







Really? I feel nothing but depression. I hate to see the community like this! (me included hehe) We are arguing over rules and details and concepts. Remember the Automatons Competiton? That was fun and exciting. All the authors put genuine care and work into their factions because it was their idea not because they felt a need to win. And the three final competitors were happy for each other, even after Panzer won by a hair.



I hate to say this but I think Amp put too much on the line for this competition. The weight of it all is making people tense.

To be fair, Veronica wasn't probably aware of that it was close to closing time <_< Most people didn't even read rules so I doubt they knew exact time thread would lock down. Hell, I didn't know it will lock down when I made "._. 98 entries..." post



And... Dang, now I'm even more depressed. I joined this forum last month, but I have to agree with you there x-x; Before poll started, everyone was happy and excited... It made me really feel welcome even though I hadn't been here long... But then when poll started people started to get pissed off at how it was done and it seems some people become bitter about it x-x; I really hope that that bitterness isn't affecting current poll....

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
Nereides seems like a cool concept but it was so incomplete and patchy to me that I couldn't bring myself to vote for it. imo it doesn't have the sense of direction that I feel the Eternal End does.

To a point, I like that the Nereides proposal has so much open space for the devs to play with. The more precise you are in your proposal, the more noticeable will be when the devs have to do surgery on it. *looks at the Celestial Cities of Discord* Obviously, the Nereides having less minor faction theme than the Cultists (but more than the Starry), means some extra work in the design department for the devs. But that's not necessarily bad. If my faction had won, would my minor faction abilities be good enough for the devs? Or would they need to "redraw" them while keeping the spirit of the proposal?

Sovereign wrote:
Sry do be a douche but i have to be honest.



i have some other issues with the Nereides.



People join and people leave a community. They will play other Games and move on, and there are just always some dozens of players who stay in one community for many many years and becoming part of its fundament.



Veronica has 1 Post (her proposal) and was not online during the last 6 Days.



I dont see someone, who doesnt even wanted to know if she is in the final G2G round, becoming a sustain part of the community. But whos then gonna to extend the lore of the race?



I think she just fudged her proposal never thinking about she could actually win, got the lucky 99. and there fore many bonus votes.



I want someone who will be guaranteed over the next years a active part of the community.



Someone who will not stop extending the lore of his race !

Someone who is always concerned about the game, its balance and its community.



And Nosferatiel is the only one who can provide this to this community.

The rules are open to anyone. Lucky ones and not. If that person, Veronica, for whichever reasons doesn't take part again, it falls into dev territory to take charge. Including listening to Nereides fans that will take active part of the forum and taht surely will be more than happy to help to develop the faction. The same as vaulter fans would jump over the opportunity to add stuff to it. Or OP Lords... or...



Plus you don't know her/his circumstances, including language barriers or whatever. For all we know, she/he(/it?) may have a bigger presence later (speculation, I know) thanks to this. Or not.



I understand your feeling. But the development of a faction (pre-relase or post-release) shouldn't be exclusively tied to the presence of one individual no matter what. Veronica made a proposal and if it wins, she/he has the right to help the devs to flesh it. That she/he decides to use that right is another story.



That's my point of view so it may be quite flawed/biased/wrong. Disregard if that's the case.



For the record, I'm fine with whoever wins. Proposals are proposals and they will be altered as needed, as much as needed. If the devs do their work well, we should be happy with the results. And there is always room for DLCs/Expansion?

Stealth_Hawk wrote:


Really? I feel nothing but depression. I hate to see the community like this!

I feel the same.