ENDLESS™ Legend is a turn-based 4X fantasy-strategy game, where you control every aspect of your civilization as you struggle to save your homeworld Auriga. Create your own Legend!
It would be amazing if u guys create a game about the endless Dust wars, where you could play as the leader of one of the endless factions, interact with primitives civ ( like primites humans in Earth or the vodyani before they became virtuals) and comands fleets and planetary invasions in a more strategic way than EL an ES.
While there (as far as I know) has been no news of any plans for Endless Legend 2... would I think it would be a nice community question to ask. IF Endless Legend 2 was announced, what would you want to be added, changed or removed from the game? What would you like to see in Endless Legend 2?
Me myself, there are a couple of things. Most are actually quite minor.
I would for example want to see more "city levels". Like, more cities (not just the cultist one) can upgrade past "rank 2" and such. It is always satisfying to see the cities evolve and improve. That is one of the major things I would actually like to see added, even if it is a minor thing.
Improved AI would be pretty much my only real wish.
The game works in pretty much every other aspect really well. It's just that the AI cannot use many of the tools it is given very well and is poor at warfare in general (the strategic side mostly).
Heh, I don't think much about AI and such, as that is kinda given. Updating AI and such would probably be one of the things you would almost think is too obvious. But yes. They should update the Ai. xD
There is a very good Workshop Mod called "Improved AI" that might be right up your alley.
As far as Endless Legend 2 goes, I would love to see Unique Heroes with Unique Models and more various skill trees. I would also like to see a wider variety of Minor Faction Heroes and Hero weapon loadouts. Having a Vaulter Hero who can use Axe and Shield, or a Wild Walker with Sword and Board. Let me use a Crossbow on a Broken Lords Hero or a Spear on a Roving Clans Hero. They dabbled a bit in this with the Mezari Monk Hero and I hope they dig deeper.
Also:
Weather on Land
More UI Improvements
Larger Maps
A Better Happiness System (possibly similar to ES2)
More Faction Unique Tech
Unique Faction Skins for Naval Units
Unique Faction Skins for Legendary Buildings and Special Districts (i.e. Winter Borough, Altar of Auriga)
More Minor Faction Units (as collection bonuses maybe? i.e. new minor faction unit template at 5 owned villages, 10 owned villages etc.)
1. I think the AI needs to be more aggressive - with both wars/threats and with regular, peaceful diplomacy. Let the AI throw some real, consquential demands at me and make me plan for that.
2. More anomalies would be cool; adding some with negative effects similiar to those in ES2 would be fun.
3. Politics in ES2 are nice, a similar system would be great. If nothing else, at least some unpredictability in each game's empire plans should be added.
4. I would like to see trade routes on the map as actual units - I don't even want to manage them but I would prefer to see them. Trade routes existing as a random number on a UI panel always annoys me in my EL games.
5. I’d enjoy more cinematics. A victory cinematic is needed; winning a game is too anticlimactic. Galactic Civilizations 3 does a nice job rewarding the player with cool cinematic each time they do something for the first time: first settlement expansion, first strategic resource collection, first large unit, etc. I wouldn't mind a system like that. EL and Amplitude as a whole have great art styles and the point is that I wouldn’t mind seeing more !
6. I'd love to see heros play a civilian role that goes beyond scouting ruins, sitting in cities, or talking to minor factions.
7. Lastly, more endless lore !
I agree with all of this... except maybe the agressivenss. xD I have had a bit too many EL games where I have gotten completely encased by enemy factions because they spread so fast.
1. I think the AI needs to be more aggressive - with both wars/threats and with regular, peaceful diplomacy. Let the AI throw some real, consquential demands at me and make me plan for that.
2. More anomalies would be cool; adding some with negative effects similiar to those in ES2 would be fun.
3. Politics in ES2 are nice, a similar system would be great. If nothing else, at least some unpredictability in each game's empire plans should be added.
4. I would like to see trade routes on the map as actual units - I don't even want to manage them but I would prefer to see them. Trade routes existing as a random number on a UI panel always annoys me in my EL games.
5. I’d enjoy more cinematics. A victory cinematic is needed; winning a game is too anticlimactic. Galactic Civilizations 3 does a nice job rewarding the player with cool cinematic each time they do something for the first time: first settlement expansion, first strategic resource collection, first large unit, etc. I wouldn't mind a system like that. EL and Amplitude as a whole have great art styles and the point is that I wouldn’t mind seeing more !
6. I'd love to see heros play a civilian role that goes beyond scouting ruins, sitting in cities, or talking to minor factions.
If Endless Legend were to be suceeded by a second game, I think it would benefit from changes to it's combat, increased ways to interact with the minor races, in addition to some of the things added to Endless Space 2.
I beleive the combat would benefit from more units being able to use active abilities to increase the involvement of the player, instead of most units being only able to direct damage, buff, and heal. Though, if the sequal were to mirror ES2 as becoming more an Epic or Saga like story, the combat could become more cinamatic as the player could potentially only alter the formation(s) of the army beforehand and the selection of the units. In addition to this; an increased selection of empire base unit that empashasise their strengths and weaknesses and possibly a different way of gaining them, separate from the tech tree.
Minor races typically served to amplify the empire through economic or military buffs in addition to suplementing the empire's limited base roster and offering the odd quest. More interactions between subject and ruler, random events caused by their status in your empire, in addition to maybe a changing level of intigration in the empire based on multiple factors such as the nature of the minor race, it's possible military function, and maybe even how "tolerable" the empire may be, given the Necropahes in Endless Legend benefited from eating their own population and the Forgotten were outcasts with a grudge against science(and the Vaulters).
Endless Space 2 has minor races involved in politics and before they are annexed influence is spent increasing relations with them before they can be annexed. In addition to this, ships in ES2 require manpower to be crewed and lose manpower when the ship is damaged or the fleet invades a system. Luxury goods, in ES2 also adds value to the trade of the system that adds to the capabilities of the trade company.
All amazing ideas. :) I personally am a bit against the whole concept of adding in sci-fi elements in Legends. (Like the whole of Multiple planets etc). I love the Fantasy aspect of Endless legend just that much. xD
-The same atmosphere and feel. The game is relaxing to play, with beautiful music and art for damn near everything. This has to be in for it to be considered Endless Legend at all.
-Better combat. Let's be honest here, EL's wasn't the best. Not as awful as some say it is, but it lacks. Devs could look to Age of Wonders 3 for inspiration, as it had a similar army system.
-Dunno if I like this talk of new races, I want my loyal cultists returned to me just the way they were.
-Better AI (Not much to say here)
-Better mod support, the lack of freedom and tools is prohibitive, and while I'm probably the worst modder out there, I can see the potential user-made factions, quests and items filling any gaps the devs missed.
What I think they should do if they plan to make EL2 is to put vote for features that they should focus on for the base game.
for example like AngryAnt's suggestion, maybe not everyone would like the idea of a new world and some want Auriga. So they put a vote.
thing is, if game is moddable then we can create our own worlds, terrain, senarios,factions, etc... I think they realised how unmoddable their games really are when they did the ES2 mod competition.
There is potential for it being an ES2 sequel story-wise, which would probably provide the best opportunity for changing things up: Different planet/system offering a full reset.
Random thoughts:
Story could take place in a system which the Riftborn has encapsulated in one of their speed-up time bubbles, but perhaps lost control over
Plenty of gameplay time can pass without it being odd that there is no inter-stellar contact
Interesting gameplay opportunity for temporarily pushing things out of the sped-up bubble - effectively "freezing" it from the point of view of everything else
Could do a fresh drop of minor and major civilisations from ES2
Could just loosely base EL2 ones on ES2 ones
Opportunity to swap major/minor status inside EL2 (there are more of us here - you be the minor now)
Interacting with other planets or just moons in the system?
Could be anything from vague relation to direct action on the planetoids
More powder based weaponry and units that use early powder like cannons, muskets , stuff like that, maybe more new races, keep the combat the way it is, endless legend has my favorite style of 4x combat i love every sec of it and mod support.
Maybe Endless Legend 2, if it ever comes out, would be about land combat on some remote, yet important planets that every major, even minor, faction in Endless Space 2 would fight over? i Know ti would be a bit unrealistic, especially if we consider that major factions would mainly solve the problem via space battles, but.. imagine...
It's planet like Auriga, with vast underground tunnels you can't simply conquer in one go. Instead of bombing the planet and gaining control over it in one swift strike, the teams, factions would take a hold under the planet's surface where they would be really hard to get rid off, each having their own stronghold and areas of influence! Yes, it's a bit based on Dungeon of the Endless, true, but I think it would be am emtertaining idea!
It would include politics on two levels, between outposts and big empires that own them, whatever locals that survived in those vaults (maybe, if it's Aurgia, we could find survivors from first Endless Legend? That would be cool!) and other hidden things, previously locked away, concealed from any prying eyes?
I love Endless Legends. Of the top of my head the "obvious" branching questlines - I would really like that. On the other hand the game is wonderful, and I cant think of big fixes needed right now! I will come back with more ideas when I have them!
I guess seing a new planet, with entierly new races and a new story to uncover would be the driving force behind a second undless legends for me. I deeply hope that we may see a sequal - but something moving forward...Something fantastical but something new! (With a bunch of wonderfully unique races as wilt all the other games)
And if we wanted something cool; A magic system...I'm 100% sure its something amplitude could work out. But something where you create spells and artifacts, maybe much like ship or unit design in other games. Obviously work out how to make it lore frendly, but I'm sure you could - but if you could design things like that it would be awesome. definatly based on combining anctint and new technologies etc... the idea really excites me.
I love Endless Legends. Of the top of my head the "obvious" branching questlines - I would really like that. On the other hand the game is wonderful, and I cant think of big fixes needed right now! I will come back with more ideas when I have them!
I guess seing a new planet, with entierly new races and a new story to uncover would be the driving force behind a second undless legends for me. I deeply hope that we may see a sequal - but something moving forward...Something fantastical but something new! (With a bunch of wonderfully unique races as wilt all the other games)
And if we wanted something cool; A magic system...I'm 100% sure its something amplitude could work out. But something where you create spells or artifacts, maybe much like ship or unit design in other games. Obviously lore frendly - but if you could design things like that it would be awesome.
Oh, yes. Some sort of designer. :) It would be neat if they went deeper into hero and unit designs. This could also make the unit roster a BIT bigger (as Legend honestly have... quite light with race units) Like, you pick "Infantry". Then you get like 3-4 options on how they look baseline. (Maybe even options for Light, medium and heavy armor) And then you can add equipment, like "Shield and one handed weapon" "Two handed weapon" "magic" (support or offensive) "Bows" Such things. (Of course, this wouldn't be an option for all of them. Each factions having baseline units that are too unique to be designed.)
I would also love if we could design our own "Heroes" to start with... but that maybe would be a bit far? :)
Improved AI would be pretty much my only real wish.
The game works in pretty much every other aspect really well. It's just that the AI cannot use many of the tools it is given very well and is poor at warfare in general (the strategic side mostly).
Improved AI would be pretty much my only real wish.
The game works in pretty much every other aspect really well. It's just that the AI cannot use many of the tools it is given very well and is poor at warfare in general (the strategic side mostly).
Heh, I don't think much about AI and such, as that is kinda given. Updating AI and such would probably be one of the things you would almost think is too obvious. But yes. They should update the Ai. xD
I guess I actually quite like the limited unit choice - I find it makes minor factions relavent, not simply for there bonuses - but also for the goodness in what you unlock. But I'm just getting inot some of the depth of the game, and like the choices between the weapons and items you will use. Despite saying that if you could design and "lock in" a unit chassi or two for your empire that could be cool...And yea, a new game does not have to be like the old.
But definatly some kind of "Forge" - waether you put things together do design new "artifacts" (weapons & armour etc) you could equip on your heroes, or maybe units... Or designing an Spell "effect"; like the Ardent mages pillars, or the Riftborn's singularities that could effect the world some way.
Maybe simply each (or some) races have an Artifact that can be upgraded in vairous ways that provides differing bonuses to the empire...Some great dust crystal tower or something - a bit like Horatio changing there gene pool...or (probably a better enalogy) assimilating minor races to pick up their traits. You could search for ancient technologies, and items (or invent new cutting edge Dust magics) that you can use to give you various bonuses. I guess I'm thinking this is quite like the minor faction mechanic a little. Use technologies to unlock more "slots" on your artifact and then modify it to affect how your empire runs.
The reall problem is we all WANT a new endless Legends (in a 4/5 years or whatever) - but Endless Legends is So good... other then a new story it's hard to think of something "missing"...Then again the shifters expantion was great as I didn't know Winter could be so much more intresting than it was!
I guess I actually quite like the limited unit choice - I find it makes minor factions relavent, not simply for there bonuses - but also for the goodness in what you unlock. But I'm just getting inot some of the depth of the game, and like the choices between the weapons and items you will use. Despite saying that if you could design and "lock in" a unit chassi or two for your empire that could be cool...And yea, a new game does not have to be like the old.
But definatly some kind of "Forge" - waether you put things together do design new "artifacts" (weapons & armour etc) you could equip on your heroes, or maybe units... Or designing an Spell "effect"; like the Ardent mages pillars, or the Riftborn's singularities that could effect the world some way.
Maybe simply each (or some) races have an Artifact that can be upgraded in vairous ways that provides differing bonuses to the empire...Some great dust crystal tower or something - a bit like Horatio changing there gene pool...or (probably a better enalogy) assimilating minor races to pick up their traits. You could search for ancient technologies, and items (or invent new cutting edge Dust magics) that you can use to give you various bonuses. I guess I'm thinking this is quite like the minor faction mechanic a little. Use technologies to unlock more "slots" on your artifact and then modify it to affect how your empire runs.
The reall problem is we all WANT a new endless Legends (in a 4/5 years or whatever) - but Endless Legends is So good... other then a new story it's hard to think of something "missing"...Then again the shifters expantion was great as I didn't know Winter could be so much more intresting than it was!
I like the game as it is, it is great. BUT... I actually do have a bit of an issue with the minor factions. 1: They are really random, which can be a real annoyance for factions that sorta depend on them. (Like the Cultists or the Morgawr). IF you are meeting a landbased enemy as the Morgawr are you screwed unless the minor faction in one of your lands happen to be infantry or cavalry.
2: The whole concept of that you MUST have the minor factions to have an efficent army feels a bit frustrating for me overall. As I kinda like my army to look the same. xD
I would maybe say, that if I were to choose how they would work in Legends 2, I would give each faction maybe... 2-3 more unit types. But have the minor faction units be way more expensive but really god damn powerfull. Basicly great reinforcements, or great powers, but not neccecarily a must for certain factions.
The factions that could bring the most fun mechanics to land-based gameplay would be either The Unfallen, The Riftborn or The Vodyani.
Unfallen city would be a great third and just like in space, they would colonize new provinces by vining them. Once vined the roots of the main city tree would spread to the other provinces. Walking along those tiles would maybe give your units bonuses like movement speed.
Riftborn would bring their time stasis powers that would affect the whole province.
Vodyani would have floating cities that can move from place to place, a bit like their arks and the Roving Clans. Once again, they will be going around sucking the essence from minor factions and riding on their sweet vehicles
Another thing would be the fact that if they make the game from scratch would they be able to add all the features already included in the previous version? ( And not repeat the mistake of civ6 and other games).
In terms of a different planet, they could have another random factor added to creation where it chooses from the other unique planets in ES2. So the planets like Bilgeli, Kyros, Tor, etc. Could even do Harrow before it was destroyed. The planet would determine general weather patterns, majority of terrain types (can still have them all, just one would be the "main" one), and special traits. The lore for each of these planets in ES2 is pretty interesting, so I think exploring it would be really cool.
I actually like a lot of the new mechanics that ES2 brought. Things like politics, improving tier levels by an improvement (as opposed to EL's burrows), and more diplomacy with minor factions. I think a lot of these systems could easily be adapted to work on a single planet basis.
Now the problem with doing a different planet, or having it take place after it turns to an ice planet, is that most of the races probably wouldn't be there. Vaulters would, of course, because they are in all of them.
I really do want more units per faction than in the first EL. At least two more. I, personally, would also want a darker, undead like faction. I know that might sound genertic, but I trust in Amplitude to give it a twist. Think of the Haunts minor faction, that's a good example of their take on an undead.
I know they have said they don't want to work on a second Endless Legend until they have learned enough... but i'd be OK with adding some features from ES2, more fancy graphics, and all the DLC from EL1.
Speaking of the DLC from EL1, i'm certain they could improve upon mechanics both of old and introduced in DLC. Things like the weather, where it happens on land as well as at sea. Espionage with more options and all of them useful (instead of just a few).
I could go on for a while, so I think I will stop here for now.
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I would defently say that EL2 would need some more unit type's maybe like heavy and light versions as an idea (you could in EL1 but it wasn't to mutch different to your normal troops)
I would also love to see each race get an advanst unit as you get into the late game (advanst cavalry would be a tank, infantry would be a mech or someting, you get the idea)
The factions that could bring the most fun mechanics to land-based gameplay would be either The Unfallen, The Riftborn or The Vodyani.
Unfallen city would be a great third and just like in space, they would colonize new provinces by vining them. Once vined the roots of the main city tree would spread to the other provinces. Walking along those tiles would maybe give your units bonuses like movement speed.
Riftborn would bring their time stasis powers that would affect the whole province.
Vodyani would have floating cities that can move from place to place, a bit like their arks and the Roving Clans. Once again, they will be going around sucking the essence from minor factions and riding on their sweet vehicles
I mean, I doubt that would happen... as the endless universe is actually a continuious flow. Which makes it unlikely that those species would be added like that. (fun fact, the Vaulters are the main "species" from Dungeon of the endless to Endless space 2.) But more factions would indeed be great :)
The factions that could bring the most fun mechanics to land-based gameplay would be either The Unfallen, The Riftborn or The Vodyani.
Unfallen city would be a great third and just like in space, they would colonize new provinces by vining them. Once vined the roots of the main city tree would spread to the other provinces. Walking along those tiles would maybe give your units bonuses like movement speed.
Riftborn would bring their time stasis powers that would affect the whole province.
Vodyani would have floating cities that can move from place to place, a bit like their arks and the Roving Clans. Once again, they will be going around sucking the essence from minor factions and riding on their sweet vehicles
I mean, I doubt that would happen... as the endless universe is actually a continuious flow. Which makes it unlikely that those species would be added like that. (fun fact, the Vaulters are the main "species" from Dungeon of the endless to Endless space 2.) But more factions would indeed be great :)
It would be wasted potential if at least one of them weren't added; Their lore, style and aesthetic are far too great to not be given the land-based game justice, to actually see their unit models walk around and fight.
I don't get what you mean by continuous flow and how that would prevent any of them from being added, it's not like those factions are confirmed dead. Of course, it all depends if EL2 is a sequel to ES2 or a prequel.
But you know the Vaulters are going to return again, so why not another faction that plays even more unique
I also like the idea of adding more unique planets - they certainly have plenty to chose from in ES2. Of course, Auriga must come back, but a couple planet options would be cool. I also like the fantasy aspect, so wouldn't want to change that.
Beyond that,
-adding more flexibility to combat and unit selection
i think for me i feel like Endless Legend 2 would only feel necessary when they can make really big step forwards in the tech/engine. I think the thing I would probably like most is for it to be on a whole new planet, get a view at a pre-space look at another world, maybe that of like the Hisho after they were experimented on.
Another thing that could be fun is maybe a change is time period aesthetic, i don't want it to go full steampunk or anything but having the aesthetics be a bit more modern (maybe late 1800's) could be fascinating.
- Increase the uniqueness of gameplay factions. Special features like : Weak military civ but with advanges. Civ with automatic district developpement (like the necrophages). Nomadic cities. Hidden cities etc.
- But try to keep the factions balanced. Super important in the long term of the game.
- Same factions. No need any big changes or plethoric number of new factions. Need a rework of complexity, equipements, land features, graphism etc.
- Increase the complexity to give more strategic choice for the player. Like in Civ 5 where you had to choose between Tradiction or Liberty. It would be great to see this system applised to Endless Legend 2.
* different areas the map takes place. On earth, in mountains, down the earth, on water, in water, in air, whatever. By tech in orbit?
* other ways of terraformation, like build rivers, hills, mountains, build (secret) tunnels, etc.
* place traps on map, map option to create prepared ambush
* would be nice to have different places on map, than only villages and/or ruins
* could be finally more rewarding for company, to at least explain how combat mechanics work ingame... (I look at you both, Endless Legend and Endless Space 2)
* repair option for equipment what gets damaged and finally destroyed
* options to improve buildings, stuff for anything to improve, add stats, etc.
* munition instead of upkeep in form of dust, only
* make units/armies tired, if they don't rest from time to time
For me, there's a few minor UI tweaks I'd like to see implemented in to the base game and maybe they are there but I'm not finding them. When I'm doing research for the weapons and armor, I'd like to be able to sort by highest Attack and highest Defense when I'm adding gear to edited units. I feel like it gets cluttered towards end game on the second to last age.
Also, an option to fortify actual walls. Something to add an extra layer of defense to the city besides an 8 man army and the militia in the city and an army outside the city. Having the walls as part of a research upgrade for each age could make the boroughs more expensive and require strategic resources but it would give an extra layer of defense (besides the research for the fortification or as a replacement for those techs) as well as an interesting visual look and feel.
While Endless Legend allready is a great game I feel there are a lot of areas to improve on just as ES2 did.
For one I'd like the ability to have more than 8 players on a map. Also a population and politics system similar to ES2 would be nice. Other possible improvements would be revamped combat system, better UI and improved graphics.
Some things I'd like to see, either in an update to the current game or as part of EL2:
Multiple hero classes per faction. A unique skill or ability (at least, unique within their faction) for each Hero. Some more variability in equipment loadout for heroes beyond having multiple classes - so for example, a Drakken support hero who can use a spear.
More developed minor factions and minor faction interactions. Not necessarily the same as in ES2; but different, more interesting effects for assimilation than just +5% something per village. Better minor faction quests - that is, quests that offer some permanent reward rather than a small resource cache and some units. For example, the Erycis quest (land of the Godheads) could grant a building that gives its city bonus approval and influence for each type of terrain it exploits/has built over with a district, which is in theme with the quest objective of settling a variety of terrain types.
Districts that can be placed on otherwise unbuildable features, such as ruins (!!!), watchtower foundations, minor faction villages. Additionally, at least one more water district.
More naval stuff: faction-specific skins, techs, possibly units as well. The Morgawr shouldn't be the only ones who can build non-Fomorian naval units.
Something that takes advantage of mountain tiles, so that they are not useless.
Multiple wonders per era - perhaps have some of them unlocked via tech, rather than upon reaching an era. Also, more legendary deeds.
Better Guardians!
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Some things I'd like to see, either in an update to the current game or as part of EL2:
Multiple hero classes per faction. A unique skill or ability (at least, unique within their faction) for each Hero. Some more variability in equipment loadout for heroes beyond having multiple classes - so for example, a Drakken support hero who can use a spear.
More developed minor factions and minor faction interactions. Not necessarily the same as in ES2; but different, more interesting effects for assimilation than just +5% something per village. Better minor faction quests - that is, quests that offer some permanent reward rather than a small resource cache and some units. For example, the Erycis quest (land of the Godheads) could grant a building that gives its city bonus approval and influence for each type of terrain it exploits/has built over with a district, which is in theme with the quest objective of settling a variety of terrain types.
Districts that can be placed on otherwise unbuildable features, such as ruins (!!!), watchtower foundations, minor faction villages. Additionally, at least one more water district.
More naval stuff: faction-specific skins, techs, possibly units as well. The Morgawr shouldn't be the only ones who can build non-Fomorian naval units.
Something that takes advantage of mountain tiles, so that they are not useless.
Multiple wonders per era - perhaps have some of them unlocked via tech, rather than upon reaching an era. Also, more legendary deeds.
- As Amplitude has been bought by Sega, they have an eaisier access to the huge asian market. Understand what asian gamers want and make a product feat for them is essential. Conquering this market means becoming really rich. I mean REALLY rich. ^^
2. Personnal answer
- I think Endless Legend should 2 be a nice improved version of Endless Legend. Not a revolutionnary thing. So :
* More specialisation in the factions, for a more unique gameplay.
* More specialisation choices in the game (like the Ideologies, in Civ V, or in Endless Space 2).
* Graphiquely even nicier, more fantasy (but no cartoon please).
* And more collaboration with experimented beta testers (EL has suffered a lot from balance problem. So this is an important point).
3. Background answer
- I'm not sure but it is possible that the singularity of the background of Endless Legend (with its original factions, cultists, kapakus) plays against him to a part of the public.
- Let me explain : the public likes to be able to identify "who is who" when they see a game. For example, if they see a faction of orc they say "ok, they are the big violent villains". If he sees elves he says to himself "Ok, those love nature and protect it".
- Endless Legend is right to have a background that sets it apart, but I think it should make this background easier to identify immediately, more archetypal. More Manichaean too (with factions more clearly marked as bad, and others as good, or neutral).
I think what I'm talking about is perhaps a brake on a wider spread of a future Endless Legend 2.
- Endless Legend is right to have a background that sets it apart, but I think it should make this background easier to identify immediately, more archetypal. More Manichaean too (with factions more clearly marked as bad, and others as good, or neutral).
No thanks. Pigeon-holing players into Camp A vs Camp B in a polarized system is not dynamic or realistic. The real world isn't so black and white. The Academy Quest in ES2 tells me the devs also view things more through the lens of moral relativism and less through the lens of dogmatic fanaticism.
I would love to see something of an artifacts system put in place. Empires will be able to find artifacts left behind by ancient cultures on Auriga like the Endless and Lost or even pre-Dust Broken Lords and Drakken. You could use the power of these artifacts to provide boosts to your Empire, with more powerful artifacts being unlocked as the game progresses.
And later on, spies will be able to steal these artifacts for their own empires or they can be used as trading items.
Better mod support would probably be the dream out of anything else though.
There's so many things to mention. I know a lot of great points have been brought up, along with quite a few that I disagree with. But personally, things I very much hope to see in EL2:
- Branching Questlines
Give each faction actual choices for their faction quests. Let us choose the path we want to take (maybe have a military, cultural or tech approach). Right now the faction quests are pretty dull. They're always the same, so once you've played a faction, you don't really care anymore, it simply becomes a routine that you go through instead of a real story to enjoy.
- More unit options
Each faction should have more units (having just three each is pretty sad honestly). There should be 2-3 per tech tier. Giving people a mix of infantry, cavalry, ranged and support/special units. Naturally with different factions having strengths and weaknesses for the various types (so some might be super melee focused and have more of those, with few ranged, but their melee units are designed to balance that).
This would apply to the minor factions too. Give each of them 3-4 different units (that we can use when they're assimilated as well).
- More hero types per race
Please give us multiple hero types for each race. No more of this single type for all heroes of a race. It just feels lazy. It would be great to see infantry, cavalry, support, etc heroes of the same race. Give us a lot more variety. And it would make hero choices a lot more impactful.
- Governor hero type
We need a new hero type that is focused on city management. One with fewer combat related skills and more towards building up or maintaining cities.
- Tab should cycle through whatever we're on
So if we're in a city, hitting Tab would cycle to the next city. If we're on a unit, it would switch to the next active unit.
- Let us remove districts
Give us the option to remove a district, as we can with most of the upgrade buildings. This would allow us to swap things around for example, like if we want to remove a basic district and replace it with a Garth of the Allayi.
- Let us rename heroes
It would be great to be able to rename heroes. Especially with how many duplicates can show up in a long game.
- Larger maps
Pretty straight forward. Give us options for bigger maps with more factions on them. I'd love to be able to play a massive map with every faction enabled.
- Improved map randomization
Just some tweaks to map design. Like making sure that you don't get regions that have a 1 spot section that is blocked off (having an hourglass shaped region with something like a ruin right in the middle basically means you only get to use half the region). The map generator should spot such things and correct them.
Also work on initial region balance for a new game. I find a lot of the time the regions where everyone starts can be horrifically unbalanced. Some regions might be super full of FIDS while others are barren, giving some players a massive advantage over others. Resources are similar. I think making all the starting regions have 1 titanium and glassteel node and the same number of minor faction villages would be a good idea. That way everyone starts on an even footing. If you want to waste your early turns exploring for other regions with your settler, that would be your choice. But at least by default everyone would start off more or less the same. There would always be some variance of course, but not some of the insane differences I've seen. Like having one faction start in a region with no major resources, while another started with titanium, glassteel and hyperium and two luxuries.
- Make terrain global, not region based
It just feels very artificial to have each region basically be a contained environment. Having one region that's lush and covered in forests, while the one next to it just barren desert. It seem so fake. The world should be laid out with an overall terrain layout (using the Earth standard pole to pole as default, with options for different setups) and then create the regions. That way regions can have a more believable mix of terrain in them.
- Better AI
Pretty much a given. The AI needs a lot of work. They need to play smarter and not just rely on "AI Bonus" to win. Make them play more intelligently when it comes to victory conditions and potential allies and enemies. Instead of just an arbitrary scale of simple actions to determine if an AI will declare peace or war, make them take into account other aspects. Like having them choose to make peace with one faction so they can focus on their war with another (instead of just going to war with everyone and getting crushed from all sides). And make them more willing to ally with someone who is close to winning if allied victories is on. If someone's close to winning and they have no chance of stopping them, it doesn't make sense to declare war just to get beat down, the AI should be more likely to try and ally with them to get the shared win.
- More music
The music in the game is awesome, but very limited. When playing long sessions it would be great to have more variety in what's playing.
- Instant Unit Move
Please give us an option to have units skip the move animation. So we can click and just have them appear wherever they will be. The movement animation is painfully slow.
- Increase Resource Limits
EL caps at 999 for resources. In really long games, this can be annoying, as some things you'll easily cap out with while you're still building up others. Increasing the limits to 9999 or more would be nice.
There's so many things to mention. I know a lot of great points have been brought up, along with quite a few that I disagree with. But personally, things I very much hope to see in EL2:
- Branching Questlines
Give each faction actual choices for their faction quests. Let us choose the path we want to take (maybe have a military, cultural or tech approach). Right now the faction quests are pretty dull. They're always the same, so once you've played a faction, you don't really care anymore, it simply becomes a routine that you go through instead of a real story to enjoy.
- More unit options
Each faction should have more units (having just three each is pretty sad honestly). There should be 2-3 per tech tier. Giving people a mix of infantry, cavalry, ranged and support/special units. Naturally with different factions having strengths and weaknesses for the various types (so some might be super melee focused and have more of those, with few ranged, but their melee units are designed to balance that).
This would apply to the minor factions too. Give each of them 3-4 different units (that we can use when they're assimilated as well).
- More hero types per race
Please give us multiple hero types for each race. No more of this single type for all heroes of a race. It just feels lazy. It would be great to see infantry, cavalry, support, etc heroes of the same race. Give us a lot more variety. And it would make hero choices a lot more impactful.
- Governor hero type
We need a new hero type that is focused on city management. One with fewer combat related skills and more towards building up or maintaining cities.
- Tab should cycle through whatever we're on
So if we're in a city, hitting Tab would cycle to the next city. If we're on a unit, it would switch to the next active unit.
- Let us remove districts
Give us the option to remove a district, as we can with most of the upgrade buildings. This would allow us to swap things around for example, like if we want to remove a basic district and replace it with a Garth of the Allayi.
- Let us rename heroes
It would be great to be able to rename heroes. Especially with how many duplicates can show up in a long game.
- Larger maps
Pretty straight forward. Give us options for bigger maps with more factions on them. I'd love to be able to play a massive map with every faction enabled.
- Improved map randomization
Just some tweaks to map design. Like making sure that you don't get regions that have a 1 spot section that is blocked off (having an hourglass shaped region with something like a ruin right in the middle basically means you only get to use half the region). The map generator should spot such things and correct them.
Also work on initial region balance for a new game. I find a lot of the time the regions where everyone starts can be horrifically unbalanced. Some regions might be super full of FIDS while others are barren, giving some players a massive advantage over others. Resources are similar. I think making all the starting regions have 1 titanium and glassteel node and the same number of minor faction villages would be a good idea. That way everyone starts on an even footing. If you want to waste your early turns exploring for other regions with your settler, that would be your choice. But at least by default everyone would start off more or less the same. There would always be some variance of course, but not some of the insane differences I've seen. Like having one faction start in a region with no major resources, while another started with titanium, glassteel and hyperium and two luxuries.
- Make terrain global, not region based
It just feels very artificial to have each region basically be a contained environment. Having one region that's lush and covered in forests, while the one next to it just barren desert. It seem so fake. The world should be laid out with an overall terrain layout (using the Earth standard pole to pole as default, with options for different setups) and then create the regions. That way regions can have a more believable mix of terrain in them.
- Better AI
Pretty much a given. The AI needs a lot of work. They need to play smarter and not just rely on "AI Bonus" to win. Make them play more intelligently when it comes to victory conditions and potential allies and enemies. Instead of just an arbitrary scale of simple actions to determine if an AI will declare peace or war, make them take into account other aspects. Like having them choose to make peace with one faction so they can focus on their war with another (instead of just going to war with everyone and getting crushed from all sides). And make them more willing to ally with someone who is close to winning if allied victories is on. If someone's close to winning and they have no chance of stopping them, it doesn't make sense to declare war just to get beat down, the AI should be more likely to try and ally with them to get the shared win.
- More music
The music in the game is awesome, but very limited. When playing long sessions it would be great to have more variety in what's playing.
- Instant Unit Move
Please give us an option to have units skip the move animation. So we can click and just have them appear wherever they will be. The movement animation is painfully slow.
- Increase Resource Limits
EL caps at 999 for resources. In really long games, this can be annoying, as some things you'll easily cap out with while you're still building up others. Increasing the limits to 9999 or more would be nice.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you said here. :)
Better performance - EL is horribly unoptimized even with modern graphic cards and CPUS
More faction unique units
It is? I get decent performance on an i5 with 16 GB RAM and GTX 960 w/ 4GB of RAM
Depends on settings and game turn. But mid-late game with 8 factions and largest maps gives me a mix between (12fps - 50fps, is that decent to you?) and I'm on an i7-7700, 16gb ram and Gtx1060
Better performance - EL is horribly unoptimized even with modern graphic cards and CPUS
More faction unique units
It is? I get decent performance on an i5 with 16 GB RAM and GTX 960 w/ 4GB of RAM
Depends on settings and game turn. But mid-late game with 8 factions and largest maps gives me a mix between (12fps - 50fps, is that decent to you?) and I'm on an i7-7700, 16gb ram and Gtx1060
Are you using ELCP? LeaderEnemyBoss has fixed several causes of slowdowns in the vanilla game.
I purchased Endless Legend as part of a MASSIVE deal on Steam. EL plus all the currently available packs, plus dungeon of the Endless and (I THINK) Endless Space, all for like $17. I knew nothing about it but thought "Damn, that's a lot of stuff for under $20. If it's no good, it's no big loss, but if it's good, then DAMN that's a helluva deal." The latter turned out to be true.
There are things I immediately liked about EL. The atmosphere was very "zen" to put it one way. The races, while not wholly unique and original, had character and vibrancy and were distinct enough to be somewhat memorable. The drastic differences in playstyles meant that one race wasn't really a carbon copy of any other (coughMEZARICOUGH) so Every choice was meaningful. Your first choices mattered about as much as your later ones, if you were playing on any real difficulty level. the amount of story packed in was enjoyable, though a LOT of it was delivered through walls of text that were eventually just automatic skip screens. The faction editor made for fantastic replayability and experimentation, flawed though it was.
In short, there's a lot to like about ES and I think the strong points of the game (which should be carried into any hypothetical sequel) should be clear to those who've played.
What I want to see in a potential EL2 is, in a word, a bit of streamlining. Don't make that face; it's not the dirty word you think. Keep reading.
Item 1: 300 turns. THREE. HUNDRED. TURNS. Let's step back and be real: EL games take a LONG time to finish. This is good--sometimes. Sometimes it just leads to games going unfinished as the fatigue of lategame management turns into a slog. Even turning the game to "fast" speed leaves a whopping 150 turns and, much as in ES and ES2, certain things don't scale with game speed, making a "fast" game not simply shorter, but very different. conversely, "Endless" speed leaves the game with an absolutely STAGGERING SIX HUNDRED TURNS. It's simply dizzying to consider the time investment to finish a single game at endless speed. To make matters worse, certain factions like fast games, certain factions can absolutely dominate in endless ones. That's not cool. I'd really like to see a game mode that can be faster than this, say, a hundred turns? It also needs to scale everything properly to that speed so certain factions aren't completely left out in the cold--DAMNIT I promised myself I wouldn't make puns...the point being that the massive size of an Endless session is a turn off to a great many players who might otherwise enjoy the style of game. Making it available (AND BALANCED) in more "palatable" chunks might do wonders for the playerbase.
Item 2: Faction editor. I like lots of the Endless factions as is. I really like creating variants of them for fun, divergent playstyles. I DON'T like that the editor can easily break the game for better or worse due to the inaccurate valuing of many traits and features. This is also true in ES and ES2: some traits are ALWAYS worth taking and some you NEVER want to put down on your list--and many of those traits cost precisely the same amount of build points! I know I know, "but RP!" Yes, fine, good, challenge yourself like that and enjoy it. I'm not stopping you; I'd be quite the hypocrite if I chastised people for taking suboptimal stuff for roleplay reasons. There is however MASSIVE potential for the editor to allow viable, interesting combinations that are both fun AND fair AND actually work together...if only for a few critical tweaks. It needs to display more pertinent info more clearly, including some kind of preview of your custom faction's potential tech tree and starting conditions, so you don't create a faction that goes bankrupt before you can plant your first town on turn 2. Which leads me to...
Item 3: The Initial learning curve. Yup, I know veterans are sneering right now, but I'm not saying this one for me--not directly. Here's a fact: the harder it is to get into your game and start demonstrating BASIC proficiency at it, the more people it will chase away. 4x games are complex; ES is no different. However, as one of Extra Credits's many wonderful videos point out: Depth is bought with complexity, but too much complexity REDUCES depth." Depth is what we want in our games. Depth must be created by a certain level of complexity. Beyond that precise level, further complexity does more harm than good. Amplitude seems to understand that at least on SOME level, but I think it really should be emphasized a bit more: the game needs to start simple and maintain a more fluid game flow, if only for players to spend a little less time reading encyclopedias and a little more time enjoying the game before things get difficult. The precise manner in which it could do this is up for debate and iteration, but it's nonetheless important. There's a lot of stopping to read stuff, searching for icons that do something specific that you don't always need but when you need them you NEED them, and in a multiplayer game people are getting impatient waiting for you to remember where to find the "view city improvements" button or read the description of that special tech you unlocked through a quest you've never managed to complete and it's never been on your tech tree before. The game can have a very "stuttery" kind of flow where things are stopping often for some reason or another--and this can be detrimental when all factions in the session are simultaneously trying to move units and declare attacks! Think back to your first game or two of Endless Legend and how much stuff you had to figure out...and then remember that there are players with even LESS experience or talent than you who found it even MORE overhwelming! That MUST be taken into consideration for a commercial product.
Item 4: For my first actual THING: I'd actually like to see a game where "heroes" is less of a term and "your hero" is more important. Let us pick a hero--ONE hero--for our faction and unfold THEIR story. Every hero HAS a story, but we don't explore ANY of them. They're just unit leaders or buffs to our cities. Backstory means nothing if it can't be carried forward. Heroes could have their own personal questlines which come with their own rewards, like new tactical maneuvers/spells/special items for them only, etc etc. Picking a hero can and should define how that hero affects that faction; picking a Drakken support hero should bring a different kind of questline than a fighter's tale, for example. This whole thing where we can recruit a veritable army of "heroes" can get a little silly after awhile. Even moreso in ES2, but I digress. Make the hero of our story THE HERO OF OUR STORY. We could even have rivalries if an opponent happens to pick a specific hero in response, triggering more intense battles, competitive quests and other plot twists!
Item 5: A bit more utilization of voice actors: It's cool that the factions have this voiced intro and stuff, but we could be utilizing that for things of note in game, setting critical notifications apart from the usual "ping" you hear when finding a ruin, starting a battle, having your city come under siege, losing an army, etc etc. which all use pretty much the same exact alert sound. Sound is important in a videogame. It gets our attention when we're not looking at things. "The capital is besieged!" "Behold...our wonder is complete!" "My wounds...I cannot die here!" It doesn't have to be cheesy, but something succinct, but distinctive for things happening off your current camera position that demand your attention would break some of the monotony of "ping, click, click, click, end turn." It would also help subtly reinforce the feel of the faction and hero you're currently playing and what's really going on at the moment--without constantly popping up alert windows in your face. ES2 learned a bit of this lesson; their representatives chime in with their current mood and easily remind you who you're dealing with. Mind you, some of them could stand to step up their acting game a bit, but that's another discussion entirely.
Item 1: 300 turns. THREE. HUNDRED. TURNS. Let's step back and be real: EL games take a LONG time to finish. This is good--sometimes. Sometimes it just leads to games going unfinished as the fatigue of lategame management turns into a slog. Even turning the game to "fast" speed leaves a whopping 150 turns and, much as in ES and ES2, certain things don't scale with game speed, making a "fast" game not simply shorter, but very different. conversely, "Endless" speed leaves the game with an absolutely STAGGERING SIX HUNDRED TURNS. It's simply dizzying to consider the time investment to finish a single game at endless speed. To make matters worse, certain factions like fast games, certain factions can absolutely dominate in endless ones. That's not cool. I'd really like to see a game mode that can be faster than this, say, a hundred turns? It also needs to scale everything properly to that speed so certain factions aren't completely left out in the cold--DAMNIT I promised myself I wouldn't make puns...the point being that the massive size of an Endless session is a turn off to a great many players who might otherwise enjoy the style of game. Making it available (AND BALANCED) in more "palatable" chunks might do wonders for the playerbase.
I dont get this complaint. My games are typically over around the 130 turn mark (normal speed). I have seen normal speed games end even fast, with quest or wonder victory. Nobody forces you to play until turn 300? I honestly thing the pacing is already rather fast for a 4x.
Updated 5 years ago.
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On the one hand, that may just mean I don't have fast strategies. On the other hand, why would we need 300 to 600 turns then if a game typically ends at less than half that?
Sorry for breaking it to you guys, but I doubt we'll see EL2 in a next couple of years. Have you seen the Age of Wonders: Planetfall E3 trailer? It's a disaster! The graphics look horrible and outdated AF! Probably because Paradox is pushing Triumph Studios to make the game visually as primitive as possible for an easier console launch. Yes, it will look like a turd on average PC, but will run smoothly on Nintento Switch. Because that's what matters, right, Paradox? So my guess is that Amplitute wants to know how successfull this Paradox strategy of landing their butt on four chairs at the same time would be. And by chairs I mean 3 main consoles and the PC. If it works for Paradox, don't expect a decent sequel to EL. It will be as primitive and crappy as Planetfall, maybe even worse. Sorry for my bad English, I am from Neptune.
For those of you who is wondering about why I think Planetfall trailer is bad, try watching it with 0.5 speed or with a pause. The clips in the trailer are too short and they follow one another too fast on purpose. Push space on a random clip and take a closer look at the ground textures for example. You'll see what I mean.
On the one hand, that may just mean I don't have fast strategies. On the other hand, why would we need 300 to 600 turns then if a game typically ends at less than half that?
Because players have different skill levels, and less skilled players typically take quite long to end a game. I am also not sure if Amplitude themselves knew how fast games can end (tbf. EL wasnt as fast when it was released, the added DLC mechanics made it faster).
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I would definitely like redesigned watchtowers, tribal villages and areas. The borders of real areas are not arbitrary, they go along natural easily defensible barriers such as mountain ridges or rivers. Pretty often the random shapes of the different areas are simply silly, and make absolutely zero sense. The same randomness is a problem when building watchtowers, quite often you are in a situation where the side of your home area that faces the enemy has zero foundations for watchtowers, but the side that faces your own empire has plenty.
I don't think that the areas should work randomly at all, I think cities should project an area that is under their influence, I don't see why there should be preset areas at all, simply have cities exert a zone of control so that you can't build city districts within 3 or so tiles of a neighboring city. You could also increase the exploitation radius around the city based on the level of the central district for example, and pacifying villages would need to be within x tiles of a city for that city to exert control over them. If a single village is in the range of several cities, then the cities need to compete over who controls the village; this would add a whole new layer to the game where you could bribe the tribes or use influence to drown them in your own propaganda, or simply burn down villages that refuse to see things your way.
Also, you should be able to build improvements in your villages (no new districts though villages shouldn't become cities), such as better fortifications and FIDSI/population boosters. A village would be treated just like a one tile city for the purposes of combat and siege.
I really have to counter all of your items, sorry about that ^^
Item 1: The point of a turn limit is that you can force a game that refuses to reach a conclusion to an end, not to play a game that lasts for 300 turns. While I agree that there definitely could be an even faster game speed for online games, like Civ VI has, but the slower paces serve a purpose for people who want to play massive mega-campaigns with larger maps. Also, slower speeds make military much more significant since there's so much more time to conquer everything before the enemy can run away from you technologically. If your games last too long, I sugges dropping the number of opponents and reducing the map size. If you play to win, your games typically don't last that long, if you play to immerse yourself in a fantasy, then the opposite is true because you become loathe to end the game even when you have the decisive advantage and could do so.
Item 2: Yeah, well, can't really argue with you there. In fact, I don't think the faction editor adds anything to the game that is worthwhile, I'd just remove it completely.
Item 3: People who are interested in 4X games generally have a rather high tolerance for learning curves, but you're right here as well, damn my countering doesn't go as planned. I can offer advice though: Just disable all the DLC. The game is a lot more enjoyable that way if you're not interested in having your brain turn into a gordion's knot. You can then reactivate DLCs one by one as you learn and want to try out new stuff.
Item 4: This is just a no; I prefer the story to be a faction story and I like the way Heroes work and how you can use them for a multitude of things depending on your situation. This is 4X, not an RPG, I want it to stay 4X and not try to be an RPG. This game is made for niche markets and there's no point in alienating existing playerbase while trying to get people that aren't even in your target audience interested.
Item 5: I dont' think it would add to the game that much. You're already liable to suffer from sensory overload with this game, there's just no reason to add any more pointless distractions to make things even worse. Playing this game well requires intense concentration, and any feature that is simply another pointless thing that distracts your attention. I'm sure one could get used to that, but there are noises the game makes that are actually important to hear.
I really have to counter all of your items, sorry about that ^^
Item 1: The point of a turn limit is that you can force a game that refuses to reach a conclusion to an end, not to play a game that lasts for 300 turns. While I agree that there definitely could be an even faster game speed for online games, like Civ VI has, but the slower paces serve a purpose for people who want to play massive mega-campaigns with larger maps. Also, slower speeds make military much more significant since there's so much more time to conquer everything before the enemy can run away from you technologically. If your games last too long, I sugges dropping the number of opponents and reducing the map size. If you play to win, your games typically don't last that long, if you play to immerse yourself in a fantasy, then the opposite is true because you become loathe to end the game even when you have the decisive advantage and could do so.
Item 2: Yeah, well, can't really argue with you there. In fact, I don't think the faction editor adds anything to the game that is worthwhile, I'd just remove it completely.
Item 3: People who are interested in 4X games generally have a rather high tolerance for learning curves, but you're right here as well, damn my countering doesn't go as planned. I can offer advice though: Just disable all the DLC. The game is a lot more enjoyable that way if you're not interested in having your brain turn into a gordion's knot. You can then reactivate DLCs one by one as you learn and want to try out new stuff.
Item 4: This is just a no; I prefer the story to be a faction story and I like the way Heroes work and how you can use them for a multitude of things depending on your situation. This is 4X, not an RPG, I want it to stay 4X and not try to be an RPG. This game is made for niche markets and there's no point in alienating existing playerbase while trying to get people that aren't even in your target audience interested.
Item 5: I dont' think it would add to the game that much. You're already liable to suffer from sensory overload with this game, there's just no reason to add any more pointless distractions to make things even worse. Playing this game well requires intense concentration, and any feature that is simply another pointless thing that distracts your attention. I'm sure one could get used to that, but there are noises the game makes that are actually important to hear.
Interesting counterpoint, but I think some of them misinterpret my points:
1: My point about the turn limit is not that there ARE 300 turns; it's that the game's original design was made in the framework that there COULD BE 300 turns. This informs the original PACING of the game, which as pointed out, got away from the devs as DLC went on. If games typically end before the halfway mark, do we REALLY want a pacing that can go on for TWICE as long in a stalemate?
2: I think we're far apart on this one. My point is that the faction editor is GREAT, but not fully fleshed out, tuned or balanced. With a little work, it could open up infinite possibilities. Where I'm from, "infinite possibilities" tend to do a LOT for a game's lifespan...
3: It's fair to say that the core playerbase of the 4X genre has such a tolerance for complexity, but I have a warning about that: if you only make games for your core players, eventually you run out of core players. Players age, change tastes, and eventually grow old and die. A game MUST be able to attract at least SOME new audiences to survive. I'm not advocating for a removal of everything that makes 4X deep and challenging; just a smoother way to present information and a more intuitive way to interact and move the game forward. Don't mistake accessibility and readability for simplicity and shallowness.
4: Why should heroes not play a bigger role? They're a core feature in all the endless games already; why not see how we can evolve the feature and add to the richness, lore and immersion of the series by giving HEROES a somewhat more pivotal role? As it is, heroes are nothing more than stat sticks: better units or buffs for your cities. They could be so much more...
5: This one WOULD have to be handled with finesse, I admit: it's far too easy for voices to become clutter and annoyance, especially when they utter the same few lines a hundred times an hour (coughJRPGScough!) That said, IF handled with sensibility and a respect for timing and the human attention span, they could add that little touch that brings the game to life just a bit more. Again, because it cannot be understated: IF HANDLED WITH FINESSE AND SENSIBILITY.
I really have to counter all of your items, sorry about that ^^
Item 1: The point of a turn limit is that you can force a game that refuses to reach a conclusion to an end, not to play a game that lasts for 300 turns. While I agree that there definitely could be an even faster game speed for online games, like Civ VI has, but the slower paces serve a purpose for people who want to play massive mega-campaigns with larger maps. Also, slower speeds make military much more significant since there's so much more time to conquer everything before the enemy can run away from you technologically. If your games last too long, I sugges dropping the number of opponents and reducing the map size. If you play to win, your games typically don't last that long, if you play to immerse yourself in a fantasy, then the opposite is true because you become loathe to end the game even when you have the decisive advantage and could do so.
Item 2: Yeah, well, can't really argue with you there. In fact, I don't think the faction editor adds anything to the game that is worthwhile, I'd just remove it completely.
Item 3: People who are interested in 4X games generally have a rather high tolerance for learning curves, but you're right here as well, damn my countering doesn't go as planned. I can offer advice though: Just disable all the DLC. The game is a lot more enjoyable that way if you're not interested in having your brain turn into a gordion's knot. You can then reactivate DLCs one by one as you learn and want to try out new stuff.
Item 4: This is just a no; I prefer the story to be a faction story and I like the way Heroes work and how you can use them for a multitude of things depending on your situation. This is 4X, not an RPG, I want it to stay 4X and not try to be an RPG. This game is made for niche markets and there's no point in alienating existing playerbase while trying to get people that aren't even in your target audience interested.
Item 5: I dont' think it would add to the game that much. You're already liable to suffer from sensory overload with this game, there's just no reason to add any more pointless distractions to make things even worse. Playing this game well requires intense concentration, and any feature that is simply another pointless thing that distracts your attention. I'm sure one could get used to that, but there are noises the game makes that are actually important to hear.
Interesting counterpoint, but I think some of them misinterpret my points:
1: My point about the turn limit is not that there ARE 300 turns; it's that the game's original design was made in the framework that there COULD BE 300 turns. This informs the original PACING of the game, which as pointed out, got away from the devs as DLC went on. If games typically end before the halfway mark, do we REALLY want a pacing that can go on for TWICE as long in a stalemate?
2: I think we're far apart on this one. My point is that the faction editor is GREAT, but not fully fleshed out, tuned or balanced. With a little work, it could open up infinite possibilities. Where I'm from, "infinite possibilities" tend to do a LOT for a game's lifespan...
3: It's fair to say that the core playerbase of the 4X genre has such a tolerance for complexity, but I have a warning about that: if you only make games for your core players, eventually you run out of core players. Players age, change tastes, and eventually grow old and die. A game MUST be able to attract at least SOME new audiences to survive. I'm not advocating for a removal of everything that makes 4X deep and challenging; just a smoother way to present information and a more intuitive way to interact and move the game forward. Don't mistake accessibility and readability for simplicity and shallowness.
4: Why should heroes not play a bigger role? They're a core feature in all the endless games already; why not see how we can evolve the feature and add to the richness, lore and immersion of the series by giving HEROES a somewhat more pivotal role? As it is, heroes are nothing more than stat sticks: better units or buffs for your cities. They could be so much more...
5: This one WOULD have to be handled with finesse, I admit: it's far too easy for voices to become clutter and annoyance, especially when they utter the same few lines a hundred times an hour (coughJRPGScough!) That said, IF handled with sensibility and a respect for timing and the human attention span, they could add that little touch that brings the game to life just a bit more. Again, because it cannot be understated: IF HANDLED WITH FINESSE AND SENSIBILITY.
I'm just gonna jump in here and say a few things.
1. There is no rule that says one or the other thing has to take place. It is down to player skill and sometimes the world generated. You can make the time less by playing on fast or alternatley playing with fewer players.
2. I'm of the opinion that the faction editor is basically fine where it is and with the amount of attention it gets from the devs. This game does not lack factions and honestly balancing all the possible permutations that an editor can spit out is a taime consuming task...time I'd rather see spent elsewhere.
3. That's an admirable goal and I hope the devs make amore refined experience going forward but it is not always as easy as it looks. This is the side effect of complexity in a 4x. Some things have to be learned. And even if presented in the best way, players will still need to take the time to understand the mechanics of the game...especially one with asymetrical factions.
4. I'd like to see a more diverse hero roster but I would not change the roles they perform now. They sit in a position of good to have but not super crititcal to everything and I think it would take very little to push them over the line.
5. I'm with you on the voice actors up to a point. For faction leaders for sure and for some pop up events. I don't see the harm in it.
1. Why not? The idea is to give the players plenty of time to win the game properly. If the turn limit is too low, people will just stop pursuing other victory conditions and simply seek to max out their score to get the score victory when time runs out. I usually play with the turn limit completely disabled because I'd rather run the risk of the game ending in fatigue without a winner than having to run into a situation where I have to worry about the turn limit. All strategy games can get prolonged, sometimes you get longer games, some times you don't, You really are trying to conjure an issue here that doesn't exist.
2. Not really, infinite possibilities tend to slaughter the game's focus and makes for a much more chaotic and overall inferior experience. Infinite possibilities sounds nice to a juvenile mind that hasn't yet have to deal with the limits of his available time and energy, but it's not only an unfeasible goal, it is also an undesirable one. Having very fleshed out factions with drastically different mechanics as a base also inhibits the usefulness of the editor, because all your own factions are just versions of already existing ones; it just leads to the pointless "I made a new broken lords faction that's like the Broken Lords but more powerful/ but with a twist" scenario, you're still playing as the Broken Lords. Compare that to a game like Stellaris where you truly have free reign over your species within the system, but every single race is made from beginning to the end with that system, there are no special mechanics tied to a single race, rather you can pick types and change aesthetics freely. In Stellaris, every single race is made with the system, and it even allows for random species to be made. That's why the system works in stellaris, but doesn't work in EL. The whole idea of a race editor is in conflict with the core design of EL, where as in Stellaris it is a core function in itself.
3: False. New players are born every day and the markets are expanding to new countries and areas. You don't need to attract new audiences if you already have a core audience; in fact for a niche genre like 4X that's simply sabotaging yourself. The kind of people who want to play 4X games want to play 4X games, not 4X-lite games. Aside from this, you're right that the way information is presented could be loads better. The UI could use a lot more work so that it would convey information more efficiently and accurately. Better tooltips and a more intuitive UI are always welcome improvements, also a little "helper" tip system akin to what is found in Civ: Beyond Earth for example could help a lot of new players to learn the ropes faster without compromizing the actual gameplay.
4: They already play a big enough role, you wanted to limit us into a single hero and make the whole journey of the game about that hero. That's not what I want from a 4X game, that's what I want from an RPG. Essentially it sounds like you're not really a 4X player yourself and would want to have a 4X lite/RPG Hybrid game instead, and while that might be interesting to see, I like 4X as is and I want EL to stay 4X. The heroes don't have to be anything more than they already are; they're governors, they're generals, they're spies; I'm all for adding new hero functionality, they could for example also be emissaries, etc, but saying that Heroes are just Stat sticks is simply false, they're very VERSATILE stat sticks, and in a 4X game everything is about stats anyway. Heroes can be more, expanding on the hero concept is all well and good, but your idea of only having a single hero and following his journey is not a good idea for EL. It could be for some other game, WarCraft 3 already proved the concept of combining RTS with RPG elements, there's no reason it couldn't be done with 4X, but that would be a completely different game, it wouldn't be Endless Legend.
5: I don't think it would be worth the effort. In an RTS unit responses and such serve as cues on what is happening, but EL is turn based and doesn't need that. If it didn't take away significant resources and could be toggled off. I really like the fact that in 4X games generally the units keep their traps shut, I'm trying to come up with plans and figure out optimal routes,
positions and build orders, I really don't want some inane unit mouthing off cheesy one-liners and keeping noise.
All in all, I get the feeling that you're less interested in the game and more interested in the flavor of it. Nothing wrong with that I guess, and I can absolutely see how EL attracts that sort of people. Quite honestly it was the flavor that attracted me to the game in the first place, and only afterwards the actual game began to grow on me. There are tons of actual issues with this game withot adding more clutter just to get more flavor, the problems of this game are structural, the flavor is already awesome and doesn't really need anything more, especially at the expense of the integrity of the gameplay that is already under a lot of strain from feature clutter. Looking forward to EL2, there are lessons to be learned from EL1, and instead of drastically changing the whole structure of the game like you propose, I think it just should be improved. Growth comes from keeping the core and improving upon it, not from completely changing directions erratically like a headless chicken.
Most of the problems this game has comes from the DLC structure, the features don't always mesh very well together and they don't all fit very well into the pacing of the game. The game pace has stayed the same, but now you've had a MASSIVE increase in stuff to do, the base game already had exploration, questing, the main faction quest, expanding and warfare to contend with, and that I think was plenty to do and the game felt right. Now you also have pearl collection, a spy/covert operations system, you have the ocean facilities to compete over, you have ridiculously powerful legendary feats and legendary districts to compete over, you've got your advanced winters to contend with etc etc. Every single DLC adds more stuff to the already cluttered game, and I think the game pace should be adjusted somehow to accomodate for all the new features the game has, and some features I think should simply be removed, like the legendary deeds/districts that throws the game balance completely out of the window because the bonuses are so massive that they can easily win you the game through their snowball effect. This is something that absolutely needs to be adressed in EL2, they need a LOT more disciplined approach to how they make DLCs, so that every single DLC doesn't just mess up the game completely and so that there's not too much going on at the same time.
1. Why not? The idea is to give the players plenty of time to win the game properly. If the turn limit is too low, people will just stop pursuing other victory conditions and simply seek to max out their score to get the score victory when time runs out. I usually play with the turn limit completely disabled because I'd rather run the risk of the game ending in fatigue without a winner than having to run into a situation where I have to worry about the turn limit. All strategy games can get prolonged, sometimes you get longer games, some times you don't, You really are trying to conjure an issue here that doesn't exist.
2. Not really, infinite possibilities tend to slaughter the game's focus and makes for a much more chaotic and overall inferior experience. Infinite possibilities sounds nice to a juvenile mind that hasn't yet have to deal with the limits of his available time and energy, but it's not only an unfeasible goal, it is also an undesirable one. Having very fleshed out factions with drastically different mechanics as a base also inhibits the usefulness of the editor, because all your own factions are just versions of already existing ones; it just leads to the pointless "I made a new broken lords faction that's like the Broken Lords but more powerful/ but with a twist" scenario, you're still playing as the Broken Lords. Compare that to a game like Stellaris where you truly have free reign over your species within the system, but every single race is made from beginning to the end with that system, there are no special mechanics tied to a single race, rather you can pick types and change aesthetics freely. In Stellaris, every single race is made with the system, and it even allows for random species to be made. That's why the system works in stellaris, but doesn't work in EL. The whole idea of a race editor is in conflict with the core design of EL, where as in Stellaris it is a core function in itself.
3: False. New players are born every day and the markets are expanding to new countries and areas. You don't need to attract new audiences if you already have a core audience; in fact for a niche genre like 4X that's simply sabotaging yourself. The kind of people who want to play 4X games want to play 4X games, not 4X-lite games. Aside from this, you're right that the way information is presented could be loads better. The UI could use a lot more work so that it would convey information more efficiently and accurately. Better tooltips and a more intuitive UI are always welcome improvements, also a little "helper" tip system akin to what is found in Civ: Beyond Earth for example could help a lot of new players to learn the ropes faster without compromizing the actual gameplay.
4: They already play a big enough role, you wanted to limit us into a single hero and make the whole journey of the game about that hero. That's not what I want from a 4X game, that's what I want from an RPG. Essentially it sounds like you're not really a 4X player yourself and would want to have a 4X lite/RPG Hybrid game instead, and while that might be interesting to see, I like 4X as is and I want EL to stay 4X. The heroes don't have to be anything more than they already are; they're governors, they're generals, they're spies; I'm all for adding new hero functionality, they could for example also be emissaries, etc, but saying that Heroes are just Stat sticks is simply false, they're very VERSATILE stat sticks, and in a 4X game everything is about stats anyway. Heroes can be more, expanding on the hero concept is all well and good, but your idea of only having a single hero and following his journey is not a good idea for EL. It could be for some other game, WarCraft 3 already proved the concept of combining RTS with RPG elements, there's no reason it couldn't be done with 4X, but that would be a completely different game, it wouldn't be Endless Legend.
5: I don't think it would be worth the effort. In an RTS unit responses and such serve as cues on what is happening, but EL is turn based and doesn't need that. If it didn't take away significant resources and could be toggled off. I really like the fact that in 4X games generally the units keep their traps shut, I'm trying to come up with plans and figure out optimal routes,
positions and build orders, I really don't want some inane unit mouthing off cheesy one-liners and keeping noise.
All in all, I get the feeling that you're less interested in the game and more interested in the flavor of it. Nothing wrong with that I guess, and I can absolutely see how EL attracts that sort of people. Quite honestly it was the flavor that attracted me to the game in the first place, and only afterwards the actual game began to grow on me. There are tons of actual issues with this game withot adding more clutter just to get more flavor, the problems of this game are structural, the flavor is already awesome and doesn't really need anything more, especially at the expense of the integrity of the gameplay that is already under a lot of strain from feature clutter. Looking forward to EL2, there are lessons to be learned from EL1, and instead of drastically changing the whole structure of the game like you propose, I think it just should be improved. Growth comes from keeping the core and improving upon it, not from completely changing directions erratically like a headless chicken.
Most of the problems this game has comes from the DLC structure, the features don't always mesh very well together and they don't all fit very well into the pacing of the game. The game pace has stayed the same, but now you've had a MASSIVE increase in stuff to do, the base game already had exploration, questing, the main faction quest, expanding and warfare to contend with, and that I think was plenty to do and the game felt right. Now you also have pearl collection, a spy/covert operations system, you have the ocean facilities to compete over, you have ridiculously powerful legendary feats and legendary districts to compete over, you've got your advanced winters to contend with etc etc. Every single DLC adds more stuff to the already cluttered game, and I think the game pace should be adjusted somehow to accomodate for all the new features the game has, and some features I think should simply be removed, like the legendary deeds/districts that throws the game balance completely out of the window because the bonuses are so massive that they can easily win you the game through their snowball effect. This is something that absolutely needs to be adressed in EL2, they need a LOT more disciplined approach to how they make DLCs, so that every single DLC doesn't just mess up the game completely and so that there's not too much going on at the same time.
In the interest of avoiding derailing the thread further with another wall of text, I'll just say you're making a LOT of assumptions. Especially about me. All I can tell is that you're a diehard 4X fan who doesn't want change, making me wonder why you're looking at a thread about a hypothetical sequel...
So because I don't want the game to change into something unrecognizable I'm now somehow not allowed to have interest in a hypothetical sequel? Just a friendly advice, that smug tone of yours won't be doing you any favors. Ever. The only thing it'll do is make you sound like one of these modern snowflakes that are kinda ruining everything they touch with their whining. Trust me when I say that you don't want to be associated with that crowd. It also makes it seem like you really have run out of things to say and just want to pretend like you could've won the argument with your next brilliant salvo of secret counterpoints. Don't be vague in your discussions, be specific. The more specific you can be, the better.
As far as derailing the conversation goes, I don't think that is even remotely what we have been doing; first of all the conversation is almost non-existent to begin with and secondly, when making a game, a sequel or otherwise, EVERYTHING begins with the core design philosophy, and that is the guiding force behind every little design decision. The subject we have been discussing really is the very heart of the matter. When you change things just for the heck of it, you're a thousand times more likely to make the game worse than you are to make it better. For every single way there is to make things right there are countless millions of ways to make things wrong, and I don't think you appreciate that fact, nor the conclusion that the more limited your insight is the more limited is the scope of changes you should do. The mechanics of a game are intricately interconnected, and unless you REALLY understand how a certain element is going to interact with the other elements of the game, you REALLY shouldn't touch that certain element at all. The same goes with adding new elements; I think I already brought up the problem that the Legendary deeds/districts caused to the game in a previous post; that whole thing really wasn't very well thought through as the wonder districts and legendary deed bonuses snowball out of control incredibly fast and they also derail the game quite a bit.
So no, we were not derailing the thread, but this particular line of discussion we now embarked upon is. I've said what is relevant to the thread just so people won't start shying away from a deeper discussion on the kind of design philosophy they might want from EL2, and I'm not going to start a debate about what is and is not derailing with you here, that's not why I'm here, I'm here to discuss game design.
1. Move away from the spreadsheet style of the game a bit. There are too many micro-managy aspects to it. Being able to move every single population point every single turn is too much. Maybe that stuff should only be allowed every (define amount of turns here). and perhaps each city can only move all citizens to one specialty. Moving 1 citizen at a time for the sake of optimization isn't a fun decision, it's tedious.
2. Do more to immerse the players. We need villages to be race specific, and armies to be more fleshed out with individual units. In addition, add major landmarks that would take up more than one hex and be interesting. A massive canyon for example. Or a huge volcano.
3. Re-work the battle system - The battle system, although semi-acceptable isn't thrilling, not is it very strategic. You can't control things in an exact manner, and sometimes units move in a way that is unexpected. (Like when they take the long way to go attack a unit) This can cause battles to go wrong, which is frustrating. And I must ask the question, if you can't be tactical with your battles, and you aren't that immersed by the battlefield, what's the purpose of having a tactical battle mode? To hope that your overall strategy hopefully pans out the way you wanted? :/
4. Reduce the amount of bonuses that each race gets, but make the ones they do get more meaningful. Let's face it, endless legend is full of +this + that. This can get overwhelming quickly for the mind to appreciate, and often, there isn't a need to take these minor bonuses into consideration because they won't have a large impact.
5. Finally, don't have naval warfare if you aren't going to commit to it being good. The naval game, just like many other systems have been tacked on, but are more of the same. (Similar to the urkans, they are kind of cool, but just like other systems have all these random bonuses, and just like the naval game, aren't balanced well. (The AI doesn't seem to know what to do with them as well)
To recap, cutoff some of the overcomplicated features/bonues, add immersion, make the tactical system more intersting, and allow the player to control it more directly (Or at least make it more clear what actions your troops will take).
A lot of overly defensive, condescending elitism...that is also wrong.
Fixed that for ya. Might want to keep the strawman out of this. I posted things I would like to see and why. You called my ideas badwrongfun because they're not what you wanted. Pretty sure the thread's titled: "what would you want to see" and not "you should decide for us whose ideas are right or wrong." Ease off on the namecalling and check yourself, bud.
Honestly, Endless Legend is so good, I don't know how we could make an Endless Legend 2, and what to add to it. There would be improvements to be made, but I think they could be made directly in the current game. - Choose the animation speed on the map. - To be able to rotate the camera 360 degrees. - Some ergonomic options to launch the automatic improvement of all unit models for basic equipment, when the era changes. - Be able to zoom out more on the general map, even if the map is small. - A better dosage and a system that avoids snowball (I think that from era 3, and even era 2 for some, the improvements give such economic advantages, that the game becomes overdosed.) - Remove the turn limit. (Okay, I played Caveman2cosmos... :-D)
An Endless Legend 2 would be a really different game, with many concepts that have been redesigned. - The current concept of cities and regions would be different. Perhaps villages could be built in addition to the city, to settle on attractive land, but located far from the city. - The number of improvements would drop drastically, instead, the improvements would be deployed in the form of a neighbourhood as an expansion (district). The expansion of a city would be much faster. Because what we see in the current game is that a city sprawls relatively little during a game, despite a lot of space to do so. The resource bonuses thus obtained should be offset. - Each expansion could be looted or destroyed by the enemy, as an independent place, and not as part of the city. So the siege concept would also have to be reviewed. - It would also be interesting to be able to change the nature of the tiles, if the game sets up mechanisms that use this. Growing forests, building perimeter walls, building a dam, etc... - I would find a system of collecting various resources and crafting quite addictive, without going as far as Thea the awakening. - The management of the units could be different. I wish we could do without the tactical view, so that everything can be solved on the map. For me, Endless Legend is great from an ergonomic point of view, because it does something that Civilization doesn't do, for example. In EL, you always remain on the map, even when you access the production of a city. - However, managing all units one by one can also be a problem. I'd be happy to do it on Civ, but it's still tedious. I don't know if there is a genius idea that would make my dream come true without this problem. - I like Civ's combat system quite a bit, which is very simple. On the other hand, the Age of wonder 3 combat system, although excellent, is far too time-consuming. Endless Legend is a bit in between. I would prefer a simpler, faster, more intuitive, more ergonomic system. I don't like the Heroes of Might and Magic type combat system, where you switch to a strategic grid during the fight. I prefer something like Battle for Wesnoth. I will be told that it is almost the same thing. But what I like is the lack of change in the environment. We stay on the main map. This keeps you focused and immersed in the game without interruption. - As soon as I can do a battle in automatic mode, I do it, that's to say! So I like ES2's combat system enough. But I wouldn't like the same on EL. I need to see what's going on. - No Realtime! (of course!) - A game mode dedicated to multiplayer. The game would be purified of some of its features, while others would have to be managed automatically. It would therefore be a game mode where everything is done to save time, and make games viable without it taking 3 hours!
Obviously better AI, as others have said, but otherwise, the only improvements that I could see for Endless Legend are things that they already did in Endless Space 2.
The politics system was a huge step up and made Influence actually worth something. Using luxury resources for city upgrades made them more valuable than just "keep them popped 24/7 for moar boost." Plus the luxury distribution was better, since it spread different ones across the galaxy and encouraged trading/expanding.
The Expansion Penalty was handled better too. Rather than just a linear malus per new city, there's the threshold you have to reach before it penalizes you, and you can raise the threshold via techs.
I already greatly enjoy endless Legends, there is not much I would change about it. The biggest change I would like to see are more factions, maybe even one based off the Sisters of Mercy. If they were to make a second I think it should take place Auriga, but possibly after the events of Endless Space, or Maybe at the same time? and should they make a second, if possible I would definitely like to see an ability to combine the Endless Legend and it's sequel together for one larger overall game. Both playable as standalone with separate stories factions and features, but also on one larger overall map with all the factions of both combined, much like Total War: Warhammer does.
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Make winter more apocalyptic! The food stockpiles that we had in the original game could become way more useful if you had to stock as much as possible, and if you could use pillaging features to steal food stores from your enemies. I didn't like the stockpile system and thought that in many ways it was broken, but reworking it into an interesting survival feature sounds exciting. Imagine that your city is running out of food, so you hire some privateers to go pillage one of your neighbor's pacified villages and steal their stockpiles for this winter so that you could feed your own. There should always be this threat of dying off and starving each winter, and while technology will allow you to deal with it better over time, the food game should - for thematic reasons - become harder and harder to manage unless you're investing into specialized food-producing cities or technologies.
An idea I've been having recently is that all the EL1 factions should return but in some new form. The ideas I had:
Necrophagues return, but as a Science-focused faction. They retain pityless, but now it is played as them having no mercy in taking subjects for experiments. By destroying armies, they get Science Stockpiles. They get something alongside the lines of Endless Recycling. The flavor is that most hives were exterminated, except for a few who were heavily experimented upon by Vaulters. Then these experiments revolted and took over that Vaulter city.
The Wild Walkers return, but now they are a more Militaristic-focused faction. Their building production perks are changed to Army production perks, and they retain their forest buffs. And they get a building that references The Ogmakwan, but now is used to quickly assimilate new cities. The flavor would be that they were about to build the Temple of the Earth's Core, but their city was taken. Now they believe they need more military focus than before.
The Roving Clans return, but now they have a Spionage and Diplomacy focus. Their Cities can still move, and are have the "Make Trade Not War" penalty, but their Spies can force diplomatic conditions on the enemy and any city where they put a Spy on can open a Black Market Trade Route. The flavor is that they adopted the Forgotten into their clan after a Forgotten-Roving Clans alliance was defeated in the past.
The Cultists return with an Industry focus, and now they can make multiple cities. They can still convert villages and they still cannot build Settlers. New "City Centers" (needs another name) are built on Converted villages with Industry from the Main City, and within the region where they spawn, they can build City Districts adjacent to any Village-turned "City Center". The flavor would be that the Queen was destroyed in the previous conflict. However some Cultist units remained functional in converted villages, and after a while were granted full sentience again in some Dust storm.
The Ardent Mages return as a Dust-focused one-city faction. They'd gain the Dust Lord's Dust Efficient ability, and retain their ability to build Pillars, however now they'd be able to build Pillars outside their region. Pillars would act kinda like Converted Villages extraction-wise, they could be created like Vulcanoformers but with Dust, and last only 10 turns, but you wouldn't be able to destroy them and enemy Empires would be unable to settle in the 7 grids around the Pillar. The flavor would be that having experimented more with Dust, they are becoming partially Dust-beings akin to the Broken Lords.
Not exactly sure about changes to the others. In particular, separating the Morgawr from the sea is a really hard. But that is exactly what happens at the end of their storyline. The Broken Lord's obvious development would be either a Science focus where they try to restore themselves, or a Military focus in which they've gone even more vampiric and draw Dust from enemies in battle. Allayi have some Diplomatic abilities and the flavor is that the Skyfin is worshipped across auriga, so them having a special interaction with Minor Factions just makes sense, but it is hard to not make them Drakken. Kapaku have some Science-focus already, but separating them from Vulcanoformers is difficult. Mykara should probably maintain their one-city, since I removed that from the Cultists. Drakken have some interactions with minor factions that could be played up, but that is still very much on the realm of Diplomacy, and I've seen people who want the Drakken to be more badass typical Dragons, which would mean a military focus.
Obviously, with all these changes, each major faction would probably change their name a bit. Also, old factions and their mechanics could be made available as Customs, or DLC if Amplitude/Sega feel a bit greedy.
Vaulters wouldn't return. They presumably won the previous conflict in Auriga and are in Space now. The Forgotten also fuse with the Roving Clans in flavor because they would have less reasons for their sciencephobia. This leaves room for some existing Minor Faction like the Silics, the Kazanji, or the... Urkan... to turn into playable Civs.
Endless legend is a really good game, especially its science and combat system and its environment stand as its most innovative and impressive features. I would really love to keep the innovative non tech tree science system (not that trees are bad, but we see them in every game), the mix of RPG (unit outfitting) element in a combat system that actually allows for strategic manouvres in a round based combat, and its impressivly beautifull and cozy artwork/environment. All these stuff are exceptially good, but i would really love to see supply lines being included for armies, rising the upkeep the further away from a friendly region the army is, but redusing it when being inside or fairly close to it. Additionally, more techs when compared to endless legend would be awesome, i dont say matching the amound of endless space ones, understandably endless space should have more because of its variety on planets etc, although someone could say that this is countered by the different types of terain enless legend has to offer, thus leading to more terain-specified techs beeing implemented. Generally speaking, everything is fairly sufficient, however on the 90 hours i have put in the game (probably way less than those of other people posting their oponions on this thread, so mine is prety limited compared to them, but they will surley increase) i have found one thing/mechanic, that i REALLY feel needs improvment/enrichment (if it is a word), and this is the alliance mechanic. As soon as i love to play this game with friends (probably the 85 out of the 90 hours), I feel like that alliances really lack options. Some vital (i believe them to be) improvments would be the alliance system allowing for the members of an alliance to reinforce each other, when of course their army is in range. Furthermore, units should be able to be retrofitted in allied cities so as they can feel helpful in assisting militarry campaigns. In addition to that, when a war would be to declared, or peace to be made, it would be really nice see a vote system implied to manage those decisions. One last thing, if the alliance system is indeed going to be enriched with such options/characteristics, it would be expremelly satisfying to see it implemented in other future game (like humankind) too.
As far as setting goes, it seems to me that there are two possible places you could set an Endless Legend II, namely a revamp of the current continuity on Auriga (à la Endless Spaces I & II) or on a different planet in the Endless Universe (I don't see a "later on from Endless Legend but still on Auriga" working simply because that game is pretty conclusive that reaching the end Auriga is on the verge of freezing over entirely, I don't see how you can squeeze another game with rejigged factions in there). Of these two possibilities I would strongly prefer the latter, as I kinda like the factions of Endless Legend (I) as they are while setting it on another world would allow for mainly original factions (bar the ever-present Vaulters) which recombine the archetypes of the various factions in Endless Legend in interesting ways.
Firstly, in terms of combining existing faction traits I think the most obvious pairings are Roving Clans/Forgotten (inspired by AgostoAzul above) and Drakken/Allayi.
The former would mix something of the nomadic, dust-collecting character of the clans with the technophobic "buy tech with dust" character of the Forgotten. Probably not make them the espionage faction to avoid them getting overpowered. Instead perhaps have discounts for trading technology via diplomacy?
The latter would in essence be the all-round globally diplomacy-focussed faction, including unimpeded full mobility through all terrain types and a unit which is not attacked by minor factions.
I think thematically a faction like the Cultists would need to exist, since the Endless have left such an indelible mark on everywhere in the Universe it's only natural that some kind of cult would rise around them, but that doesn't mean they would work the same way as the Cultists in EL (I). They certainly don't necessarily need to be the "one city" faction, nor do they necessarily need to have the same interaction with minor factions as the Cultists do (e.g. I wonder if they could be a faction which builds on Endless ruins rather than converting minor faction villages).
I think an al-consuming swarm/horde faction like the Nercophage/Cravers would definitely be a nice touch, though probably not with all of the particular additional details of the Necrophage like the necromancy. Perhaps instead of reduced food they instead get reduced science and they gain tech by eating other factions. Or maybe they are in effect a one-city faction, moving their capital to the most recently conquered city and leaving remnant cities behind functioning a bit like Mykara overgrown cities (not sure hoe workable that would be).
You will need a couple of slightly more generic factions, something like a Wild Walker (my personal fave faction btb, I know I have such weird taste) equivalent in terms of just being good at production but otherwise not massively altering the core mechanics of the game. Probably best use a different theme than "taking Tolkien's elves in the other direction to how they usually are" though. Ditto I suppose for Ardent Mages and their abilities, although honestly I still haven't quite worked out what they're about, maybe you take whatever their equivalent is in a more Riftborn-like direction and focus more on playing around with their "magic". Maybe make them take on a bit of the Broken Lords' mechanics with regards to being dependent on dust.
I note that the Kapaku do bear a passing resemblance to daemonic Sophons, so perhaps you could make something like them be the science faction. Perhaps they could be the one-city faction, specialising in getting a ton of science out of one city, and you could combine their volcanoformers and golem camps into independent single districts that can be built in territories outside of their capital.
There's definitely room for at least one naval faction à la the Morgawr, perhaps even ideally two which function differently, as one would hope a second game would lead to a more fleshed-out naval game. Maybe one of them could even found their cities in the sea rather than on land.
Other than that I don't really have any substantial ideas other than that I would have full confidence in the devs' ability to come up with interesting and unique factions which shake up the core gameplay loop.
I started getting into Endless Legend like a year ago around Humankind launch. Although Humankind is historically cultural, I really enjoy the fantasy 4X style of EL. I would love to see an Endless Legend 2, if that is still in the makings. The art-style and the lore and the unique factions and hero customization is all fascinating. I bring this up primarily because I think a re-launch of the game would really shed some light on it.
I started getting into Endless Legend like a year ago around Humankind launch. Although Humankind is historically cultural, I really enjoy the fantasy 4X style of EL. I would love to see an Endless Legend 2, if that is still in the makings. The art-style and the lore and the unique factions and hero customization is all fascinating. I bring this up primarily because I think a re-launch of the game would really shed some light on it.
This thread is as active as you want it to be :) And yeah... considering a very recent tweet, who knows... maybe? ;)
I really like the game but what I didn't expect to be that awesome is the music. All of it just clicks for me, every single track. That's first time this happen, and I would like something like this in EL2.
Endless legend is already an awesome game but if I had more suggestions, it would add be more items, more units, more allies, more meaningful terrain maps and destroyable environments. Hazards on battle maps. Neutral units on battle maps which may or may not join the battle on one side or another. Below surface exploration. Events that could be explorable. Enter a cave and play the event inside with your units. A necromancy type of faction. Battle cutscenes in combat.
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