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Feedback on the Mykara & the Urkans Balance and suggestions about it

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6 years ago
Feb 2, 2019, 3:36:40 PM

I would also like to see some Bloom removal protection.


Maybe a retaliation modifier from your main city, (thorns)


With the Cultist you can make Peace with your neighbor, anticipate what regions he is going to settle.

Convert villages so they stand safe and sound in your buddies empire.


Now if you do that with the Mykara.

If another player settles in your bloomed neutral area.  At peace or not, does not matter.

Those Blooms just disappear.  We don't even get "Bloom is being destroyed warning"

So I just assume they fade when settled.


As of now, I don't really find it worth investing in Blooms.  And it's supposed to be their strength.

Because you might lose them all a few turns later.


Also only being able to Bloom in Urkan occupied zones is a bit silly.

Because the Urkan are not unique to the Mykara.


EDIT:

I also read players want a +1 population from villages.  But personally think that is too similar to the Cultist.


My sugestion, may be imballanced.

But what if overgrown villages work like Necrophages "Slavery" 

So your workers assigned to a FIDSI resource have +1 output per village that is overgrown.


I know this sounds rediculous, but as of now.

Spending 16 turns (Endless Speed) wasting 20+ food per turn early game, even on your first blooms.

Only to get a 3 FIDSI tile in return that does not get buffed by city buildings, feels just weak.

Well I say feels weak, but to be honest, it feels more like a burden.


Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Feb 9, 2019, 9:56:37 AM

Regarding the Blooms, would it be too strong if it worked similar to industry?
Say, you have 60 Food. A Bloom costs 40 Food.


PLacing one: you have 20 Food left, the Bloom (40) needs one turn to completion.

Placing two: you have 20 Food left, both Blooms (20) need 2 turns to completion.
Placing three: you have 0 Food left,  all three Blooms (20) need 2 turns to completion.

Placing four: you have 20 Food left, all four Blooms (10) need 4 turns to completion.


At the same time there should be some kind of cap - so, the minimum food it requires per turn would be 10 (as in, the maximal amount of turns it needs is 4). You can now place up to 6 Blooms, turning your Food production into 0.

Now another change: You loose some Food, and end up with 39 while having 6 Fungal blooms, making your total -1 Food. If you now end the turn, the last Fungal Bloom you placed withers, getting aborted.

This design was also thought up in combination to the 'exploit' of the Sister of Mercy Hero - you can't place Blooms when in the negative, and the factorizing of the Blooms should happen before the skill of the Mercy Hero takes effect - so, even then one Bloom would wither.


The greates challenge would be the balancing of the cost. For example, in the lategame, you easily produce several thousands of Food - so the Blooms would need to require more food for each completed Bloom (which in turn makes it more efficient to place down Blooms in a bulk)

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6 years ago
Feb 28, 2019, 9:25:35 PM

Upvoting the original Post!

I would like to add one thing: I think the symbiosis traits are too weak. I like the idea but +1 FIDSI per Exploitation is not much especially because fungal Blooms dont count as exploitations. I have 2 Ideas about this:


1. At least  +3 FIDSI per Exploitation is needed

2. Fungal Blooms count as exploitation -> this would be a bit too strong maybe


The concept of the Mykara is very good in my opinion they are just a bit too weak right now.

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5 years ago
Jan 20, 2020, 7:56:03 PM

Mykara

I actually think that increasing your population based on converted villages is looking at the problem wrong. The Mykara don't really want to Pacify villages that much, since the Minor Factions don't attack your Watchtowers or Temples, and Minor Faction units can dissuade enemy Empires from expanding into a region to some extent, technically protecting your blooms. The only villages you really want to Pacify and Bloom are those you want to Assimilate. What the Mykara want to build is not villages, but Watchtowers that give you further vision, and thus more Watchtowers and expansion. Especially Watchtower of Fidelity, that gives them a Converted Village-esque FIDSI exploitation area. Watchtowers also give you a place to heal your relatively small army that is probably fighting all over the world. This also makes for a noticeable distinction from the Cultists gameplay wise, as Mykara should only really go out of their way to Pacify villages if the Missions pay well, or if they want to reliably come back to the region for Pearls/Eclipsed ruins.


My suggestions for buffs to the Mykara would actually be:

1) +1 Vision boost to all their units (maybe as part of a tech in their faction quest), including assimilated units.

2) Lessened aggresivity from Minor Factions to the Mykara. If that is too hard to code, maybe something like "Minor Factions won't attack Mykara armies with just 1 unit". If not, maybe a "Minor Faction Killer" skill on all their units that also works on wild Urkan. If that is too powerful early game, then maybe just have it as part of their Hero Tree. Akin to the skill of the Drakken hero tree. I think this should also provide some interesting interactions with Urkan Lice, Fomorians and Morgawr.

3) Make some alternative Watchtower techs in Eras III+ for the Mykara that like the Tower of Fidelity, offer 7 FIDSI, but they would consume Strategic Resources and could have more variety in effects, like extra recovery, extra vision, etc. I think this could add some interesting decisions. You could make them just like the basic tower but have different "glow" effects, if assets worry you.

4) Boost the Urkan techs so they provide other bonuses. They are both rather bad currently even if you have Urkans. Lice can already nest in your Urkan, so Encampment just speeds the process a little bit. Diplomacy only seems to decrease the cost of Peace/Aliance declarations themselves, not Tech trading, which is what actually costs a ton of Diplomacy. As Lichtenstein said, Urkan Encampent could also provide the "Meritocratic Promotion" boost. "Urkan Diplomacy" should bring you a discount when negotiating with Urkans (and as seen below, in paying regular tribute to Urkans).


Urkan

I think Urkans don't feel enough like the walking disaster they are supposed to be, moreover their requirements feel too random due to the nature of the Map generation and Market, so I never really feel like taming them is earned at all. The player who manages to tame them just feels lucky to have met the right Urkan at the right time, and the boosts he gets are huge for it. It is like a game where you are rolling dice to decide who wins after having played chess for 20 turns. Nonsense. My suggestion:


1) Wild urkans should have all three of their trainable boosts, treat neighboring empires as "Enemy Empires" (and thus bring Approval/Food/Science nerfs), and lose all of these trainings upon being Tamed or taken from another Empire. This would make getting visited by a Wild Urkan far more dangerous.

2) Being attacked should bring down the "movement countdown" of the Urkan considerably. Like at least by 3 turns. Even if the attack did little damage at all. This could allow players to: 1) Sacrifice units to keep their neighbor from getting an Urkan that they can't get themselves. 2) Reduce the penalties the Urkan could be giving to their city by sacrificing a unit. 3) Plan more carefully before trying to take an Urkan, for failing to do so and only weakening the Urkan without defeating it just increases the chances of anybody else in the world gets it. Alternatively, give the players the chance of paying an Urkan a small amount of resources to "move away" for similar reasons.

3) Urkans shouldn't demand just one specific resource. Each Urkan should offer you an alternative of three luxury resources they want. This should drastically decrease the amount of luck involved in taming them, as it'd be considerably less likely that you don't have any of these in your Empire, or in your allies Empires, or in the Market. In exchange, the amount of resources the Urkans demand should be increased. Especially the ones from early Eras like Spices. So an Urkan could ask for 60 Era I Resources, 50 Era III Resources, or 40 Era IV Resources in any combination.

4) Urkan teleportation should be slower, consume Luxury Resources, and take at least 2 turns. Preferably 3. Moreover, all Empires should be notified of the Region name where the Urkan will pop up 1 turn earlier. The ability to drop them anywhere is just insane and what breaks them the most.

5) Also, Urkans should be Pacified every 10-20 turns, depending on game speed, with more Luxury Resources. Maybe about 50% of what you paid to tame them originally. If you don't pay, they should go back to feral, which could make for an interesting decision, as the turn of the tribute comes and you can either prepare to pay or ask them to move somewhere else so they bother somebody else when they go feral. This would also greatly reduce the impact of snowballing, as having enough Luxury Resources to pay off 3 Urkans will be difficult. Especially if you get Market Banned, which could be a nice buff to the Clans.

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Jan 20, 2020, 9:49:35 PM

Have you people tried ELCP? It addresses a lot of your issues with Urkans and Mykara.


https://www.games2gether.com/amplitude-studios/endless-legend/forums/15-modding/threads/30618-endless-legend-community-patch


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5 years ago
Feb 1, 2020, 7:52:48 AM

Yes.
ELCP Fixed Mykara. They are balanced now, if you play them properly.
These critics and suggestions are obsolete with the ELCP!

ELCP is a must have. It should be INCLUDED in the original game as game option or natural born mod in my opinion.

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