Nasarog wrote:
Nice. Cost increases of tech.. is there a way to adjust that so that, low level tech doesn't cost as much as high level tech even if it's researched later? Because otherwise, this makes very little sense.

If the end goal is to encourage the player to pursue a balanced research route throughout the tech tree, it makes perfect sense. I.e., you can't ignore that little dust tech because you need to research it at the low cost and get access to the subsequent tree before it becomes too expensive. But I believe the end goal is to have all the factions have a different play style, so an unbalanced route would probably benefit a certain factions playstyle, depending on the route taken. As you said, this is a little confusing, but only if the OP is interpreted by the letter.



So, I will admittedly make a bold assumption that tech effects do increase exponentially (or at very least, linearly proportionate to increased research cost) and the T1 techs, even though they are more expensive in era X, are just as viable as the T3 tech on another tree, since their effects are increasing with the eras despite not having been researched.



So if that is indeed the case (The post says they won't increase like that, but then says 1st era research will still be viable, so that is where my assumption is coming from) then we will be getting an increased technology effect curve for free, wheras in ES it costs uniqueness in techs, since each tech has to provide an effect that is the same as an earlier tiers', only to a greater degree to create growth as the game progresses. As mentioned, with this setup, we get 140 unique techs, while we have say 1 industry tech that can service the entire tree since its effects and cost increases with the eras, 1 science tech that increases with the eras to service the entire game, etc. Instead of having 5 science techs that increase in effect and cost as the player reaches further and further up the tree.



I really hope this makes sense.

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
If the end goal is to encourage the player to pursue a balanced research route throughout the tech tree, it makes perfect sense. I.e., you can't ignore that little dust tech because you need to research it at the low cost and get access to the subsequent tree before it becomes too expensive. But I believe the end goal is to have all the factions have a different play style, so an unbalanced route would probably benefit a certain factions playstyle, depending on the route taken. As you said, this is a little confusing, but only if the OP is interpreted by the letter.



So, I will admittedly make a bold assumption that tech effects do increase exponentially (or at very least, linearly proportionate to increased research cost) and the T1 techs, even though they are more expensive in era X, are just as viable as the T3 tech on another tree, since their effects are increasing with the eras despite not having been researched.



So if that is indeed the case (The post says they won't increase like that, but then says 1st era research will still be viable, so that is where my assumption is coming from) then we will be getting an increased technology effect curve for free, wheras in ES it costs uniqueness in techs, since each tech has to provide an effect that is the same as an earlier tiers', only to a greater degree to create growth as the game progresses. As mentioned, with this setup, we get 140 unique techs, while we have say 1 industry tech that can service the entire tree since its effects and cost increases with the eras, 1 science tech that increases with the eras to service the entire game, etc. Instead of having 5 science techs that increase in effect and cost as the player reaches further and further up the tree.



I really hope this makes sense.

This and the GDD make sense to me - seems quite good, let's see what new eras will bring. ("to be detailed")

I see there are a lot of novel ideas in this game, I really like how it is shaping up.

This new research System will offer the Player tons and tons of possible strategys and many ways to play even one specific race.



This could be far more challenging aswell as rewarding then the Endless Space Technology tree (where i almost always go the same route)



to make it short



I AM FRAKING LOVE IT!

Looking great!!



Any chance to incorporate some randomness to the technology tree? I find myself always taking the exact same path (with minor variations) in Endless Space - same as Sovereign. Currently playing Pandora: First Contact, and I *LOVE* the random technology tree they've implemented - makes for much more interesting decisions (and as Sid Meier has said "tough/interesting decisions are the heart of any good strategy game")



Keep up the great work!

I might need to see this in action, but I disagree with the cost increase of previous era tech. Why not just make is unavailable unless you find links to it in a treasure or through a quest or something?



I like what I am hearing about Pandora, but my favorite tech tree was from Sword of the Stars.

Steph'nie wrote:

To achieve those objectives, costs are dynamic:

• Each technology starts with the same base Science cost
• Once a technology has been researched, all other technologies will have an increased cost
  
  

I do like this idea quite a bit, for a big reason, the Unique Player game state throughout the game; not just being the guy who researched Technology-X first, but being one of the few who actually researched it during that game. It dos feels weird starting all the techs at the same cost to begin with, as I suppose I am used to the system where there are fixed costs and people being on a similar tech level; because lets be fair, if someone is that far ahead they have probably already won the game and its only a matter of time before they actually claim it; this system where low techs have similar low costs and the high techs have a similar high cost, so you begin to research in a circular motion either picking up the techs in a series or never ranging to far into a particular tech tree because you need something else in another tree, however in the case of most games using this plan, like Civ, follows a tech timeline story - a somewhat linear path through technological ages. The thing I really like about this system first off is players having a *unique path - this is of course a *Unique path until particular strategies show up, but there are always rouge strategies that delineate from the normal. This idea that you can push in a direction and not necessarily to fall behind in tech because you are taking 30 turns for a technology to research, but there are others with a lower time to complete, or are crucial to the game in general. The idea that in the mid-early to end-game someone is going to have, in a big way, technologies you don't have and vice-versa; with this system you can seemly push in one direction without stopping and gain benefits of doing so while suffering the penalties of missing out on particular benefits of other technologies, creating a difference that is akin to a difference between two items stat increases in which one is +10 Moxie & - 10 Muscle while another is just simply a +2 Moxie and -2 Muscle - big payouts, big negatives; small bonuses, small benefits. While it may also seem strange that an early tech someone researched before you is now x16 the initial cost but they got in in a few turns early on. However I like it, I want to hold it in my hands and play with it like a kitten with a ball of yarn - unfortunately I still need a better PC to feel content with doing so.

Introduction

Our Research system is divided into 6 eras, each containing between 20 and 25 technologies. Each new era is unlocked by researching a predefined number of techs in the previous era. Apart from that, there are no pre-requisites to research a technology. Knowing when to change to the next era will become a major choice in the player’s strategy.



On the other hand, the Player can research all techs of an Era if he likes, though he may not be able to research the last Era before the end of the game.





Technology Costs

To achieve those objectives, costs are dynamic:

• Each technology starts with the same base Science cost
• Once a technology has been researched, all other technologies will have an increased cost
  
  

Technology Unlocks

Unlike Endless Space, each technology researched unlocks only 1 element for the player, would that be a city Improvement, a region building, a unit or equipment unlocks, or other empire bonuses. There are around 140 researches. Besides, technology effects won’t increase exponentially through eras, meaning that a research of the 1st era will still have an interesting potential during later eras.





Quest Discoveries

When achieved, some quests will give science discoveries as rewards. Also, some technologies can be obtained only through quests.





Faction Techs

Each faction has specific technologies to unlock. Those are mostly found through quests. Sometimes, techs that are common to all Factions can be researched in different eras depending on the faction played.





Representation

All eras and their researches can be consulted on the research screen. You can zoom on one era to have it displayed in full screen. A system of colours, disposition, illustration and icons are scheduled on each technology to help the player identify and categorize the technologies within the eras.













VIP FEEDBACK



Our VIPs had a few questions about:

• Costs of technologies in the next era: all technology costs are increased when a research is finished. Even for technologies left undiscovered in the previous eras.
• New era: it will lead to new events, quests (both single player and multiplayer) and rewards. Evolving through eras gives the player access to better ways to prepare for the next dark season. To be detailed.
  
  

I did have a question but I have now forgotten it. I like the idea and random tech trees I think are better.



DarkMeph

I love the system described by the the developers here. Increasing tech costs will add alot to decisson making (hard choices).



Random tech trees on the other hand I don't like so much. I don't like the thought of not having the possibility to get all the techs every game.

Maybe a dynamic where you can acquire tech on the battlefield as part of a plunder system (if you win the battle of course)?

NightReaper wrote:
Maybe a dynamic where you can acquire tech on the battlefield as part of a plunder system (if you win the battle of course)?

That sounded terribly overpowered, my good chap. Another problem is that it might make the hard priorities between research focused and military focused strategical decissions count less.

Why not 15 era like Empire Earth ? Cause it's sound limited for those kind of game.

I imagine that the increase in technology cost can be partially offset by higher science production. Towards the end of a game of Endless Space, I have so much science going on I get multiple high-level techs at a time. I would think the intent of the increasing cost mechanic is to mitigate this absurd acceleration rather than to slow the pace of research. Is this the case?



Side note: on the Dev Blog I see the Vaulters looking super-hardcore with their shields and assault crossbows. Also a mech (dust golem?)! While I know technology is sort their thing, is this an example of tech from a latter era?

140 techs seems like a lot... Hopefully here will have unique abilities and not stuff like (Armor 1, Armor 2, Armor 3, etc.) The tech tree in ES was huge and a bit overwhelming...

While I am not a fan of the dynamic cost increase for technology's, I do have an idea that would promote specialisation:



Say for instance, researching a military tech increased the cost of all techs by 5%, but because you have now researched one tech in the military tree, all military techs are now also 1% cheaper, resulting in the other trees still being 5% more expensive, but the military tree is only 4$ more expensive.



Of course it could be a little less about having a tech in a field, but more about the quantity:



4 economic techs, 3 military, 5 magic (or something), you now only get a discount on the magic tech as you have more magic techs then other kinds, but hen you have 2 of the tech groups with more then the others like, 5 eco, 3 military, 5 magic. The bonus is is either removed or 2 smaller ones are applied.



Just a thought.