since there is magic involved, can you do magic like alchemy (gold bonuses) or illusions (like armies that arn't really there for instance?

your magic spell theory made me think about that oart from the fourth harry potter book when they have to survive underwater. maybe something like that would work, also the idea of a faction relying on herbs and plants with their various properties rather than straight up magic is appealing to me.

We've definitely seen too little of the map to have much of a clue about what size seas are. I'd really like to see more on that point. I agree with you that the presence of islands would make things interesting. As for interaction between a prospective submarine faction and land-based ones, 3 points:



1. This is a fantasy game, so significant creativity can be employed to allow or restrict military interaction. That could include faction traits that allow for breathing water and air (if one breathes at all!) to magical or technological solutions (or even a mix of the two) to the problem.



2. The game spans 6 eras, supposedly from the equivalent of late antiquity to some time representing the present near-future, so there's no need to be fixated on just what medieval armies could or couldn't do.



3. There could easily be more than one submarine faction, so all sorts of stuff could occur in the depths before any interaction between the land and sea really occurs. At any rate, the factions would all still be in competition for the same end goals.

i personally think that while more naval gameplay would be nice, the maps right now don't look like they have enough water to support a whole submarine faction. also, how would such a faction interact with the others in game? a land based faction can hardly invade the entire ocean using medieval weapons.

Nosferatiel wrote:
I haven't read anything about any kinds of fleets being implemented, at the moment. I'm not sure there will be any battleships whatsoever.

I'd be totally okay with this at initial release. I think it would make for a FANTASTIC expansion: "Endless Legend: Eternal Seas". It would feature a whole variety of naval units and a submarine faction or two with new terrain specials consistent with undersea environments.



I'd be disappointed if at least greater naval options weren't ultimately offered via expansion/other DLC.

it would be nice if you could purchase maps and maybe if there was an affiinity in the game like the amoeba's affinity?

It would be great if there were a similar inaccuracy to your initial knowledge of the map. Games like this have always mildly bothered me when it comes to exploration. One would think that a world with pre-existing lore would have some idea of what their general area of the world looks like. Mind you, the AI is typically allowed to cheat in most 4X games by already knowing the map.

also as far as scouts go, it would be fairly amazing in my opinion if we could send scouts and we could see some of their troops and some of their positions but not the actual amount which we would have to estimate. you would have to make game changing decisions based on little information but even if it is inaccurate it would give you an advantage.

^important point. We're pretty well accustomed to different types of open space tiles in 4X games, going all the way back to the first iteration of Civ (grasslands v. plains v. tundra). Why shouldn't forests have more than cosmetic variety too?

true but there are many different levels of thickness in a forest, there could be clearings or streams or maybe even a burnt down section of forest. forests arn't universally the same.

It may make sense to increase the visual with the increase in height, such as height +1 = +1 visual, but do not like the idea that you can see inside a forest. It is generally more difficult to see in a forest on the other by the foliage of the plants.

how about when you are flying above a forest on the same tile as a nearby army, but you are flying while they are on the ground, will you be able to see them? or will you have to be an a higher elevation tile?

Thank you VIPs for the idea with higher ground ! I love it

maybe instead of heroes you need to train regular people into officers that have no hero bonuses but can move around armies and maybe are quite expensive? what i personally would absolutely love is to have an army of dragon people invading regions and pillaging everything.

i heard that early on that you needed to have a general/hero to be able to have a moving army? what happened to that idea, i relaly liekd it as it would stop folks roaming around with loads of tiny armys everywhere and clogging up the landscape.

ARMY MOVEMENTS







General

• To move armies on the map, you need to create them from units of your city garrisons
• Armies contain a limited number of units (Max Army Capacity: can be increased with technologies), and only one hero
• Some terrain types, like rivers, require more movement points (MP) than others to advance
• The max MP value of an army is the lowest unit score in the army (like in ES)
• Oceans and lakes can be crossed only by ships or with the help of flying unit capacity
• Some obstacles, such as ridges, can be crossed only by flying units
• No battle can be launched from or against an army standing on an obstacle or sea tile
  
  

Over seas

• Ships can be unlocked through the technology tree. That same tech creates harbours in all cities near coastal waters
• Any army can embark into a ship from any tile adjacent to coastal waters
• Embark/disembark uses all remaining movement points until next turn, except if embarking/disembarking near a harbour
  
  

Flying transportation

• Some flying unit can have the “Flying Transportation” capacity, meaning that they give the “flying” capacity to the whole army, thus transporting non-flying units over water and obstacles.
  
  

ARMY REPRESENTATION

• No hero assigned to army: the strongest unit as world map representation
• Hero armies: hero as world map representation
• Flying armies: an army that can fly always shows the strongest flying unit giving the capacity as world map representation
• Boat armies: boat as world map representation
  
  

VISION

• Most units have a base vision range of 3 tiles, but some others can have more through skills and traits
• Hidden armies can only be seen when you’re adjacent to them (e.g.: forest)
• Cliffs and ridges (+2 height) block the vision of the army on tiles above and further behind
  
  

FOG OF WAR

• Armies cannot be seen inside the fog of war (tiles already visited once but not in army vision range)
• Buildings and their possible evolutions are seen through fog of war, but not through unknown land (tiles never seen)
  
  

BATTLE LAUNCH

• To launch a battle, the player needs to right-click on the opponent army
• When an army initiates a movement towards an enemy army to attack it within the turn, then the enemy army can’t escape that battle anymore
• Once standing next to the opponent army the battle is launched and an battleground area is then created on the world map, around the two armies (battle system to be detailed in another GDD)
  
  

TRANSFERRING UNITS

• Transferring units is possible between 2 armies standing next to each other, or from an army to an empty tile (new army) or to a City (transfer to garrison)
• Transfer is like moving units, so it costs movement points depending on the tile where the units are transferred to
• If an army is emptied of all its units but the hero, the hero is then automatically unassigned
• You can’t transfer non-flying units through water or obstacles
  
  

LIFE REGENERATION

• Each army unit can automatically regenerate X life points per turn at the beginning of the turn, under certain conditions:
  
  
  • Standing on city tiles in player or ally regions
  • Standing near a watch tower giving regeneration bonuses (also works in ally’s regions)
  • Being in garrison
    
    
• Heroes can also regenerate when unassigned
• There are many ways to accelerate HP regeneration, such as equipment, skills, techs, faction traits and city improvements
• Because of their faction affinity, the Broken Lords cannot regenerate life automatically. Instead, they need to pay Dust to heal (Faction traits and affinity to be detailed in another GDD)
  
  Map Army Actions
• Map army actions enable the player to interact with villages, to search specific quest locations, to siege cities, to destroy some buildings, to intercept any opponent army entering its field of view, or to colonize new regions.
• To use a Map Army Action, the player army must stand next to the tile he wants to interact with and no army must stand on the targeted tile at this moment
  
  

COLONIZATION

• The settler unit has the “colonization” capacity
• The colonization capacity blocks the Food surplus once the settler queued at the top of the construction queue in cities
• Upon settlers creation, the colonization capacity extracts a defined quantity of population from the city (this value can be modified by traits, skills and technologies)
• Once a new city is built by the settler, the unit disappears and gives the population to the new City
  
  

VIP FEEDBACK

• Vision Range - going upwards allows you to see further thanks to lack of obstacles; we considered that another vision bonus would be too much.
• Suggestion - "detection bonuses for being on the high ground": we are thinking about that kind of bonuses. For example, armies hiding in forests could be seen from above. This is still "work in progress".
  
  

Would it be possible to use trojan horses?



DarkMeph

mackster wrote:
@mansen



MP is Movement Points. The speed of the army is the speed of the slowest unit (lowest MP score).

Thanks! I confused it with "Military Power". Makes sense that the slowest unit decides the overall speed.

@mansen



MP is Movement Points. The speed of the army is the speed of the slowest unit (lowest MP score).

So the sea is basically an early game block to expansion with no naval battles or trade route protection?

Mansen wrote:
1. Will landing troops (From the sea or air) onto enemy territory with troops cause a negative modifier to either party? Landings generally aren't easy to pull off - But on the other hand they can come as a complete surprise.

I reckon the main problem for landing is that the setup space for your troops on the beach is very limited, while an enemy could easily surround the units you can actually get on the beach, pound on them from possibly elevated positions and make your landing hell.

Couple of ponderings.



1. Will landing troops (From the sea or air) onto enemy territory with troops cause a negative modifier to either party? Landings generally aren't easy to pull off - But on the other hand they can come as a complete surprise.



2. Will armies be able to move on their own or do they have to be lead by a hero or such? (This caused a lot of uproar in Rome 2, since the number of heroes and thus armies were finite)



3. Ambushes? Can your armies potentially hide out in a forest and spring an ambush on a passing hostile army?

The max MP value of an army is the lowest unit score in the army (like in ES)

What exactly does this mean? It's been a while since I played ES. Sounds like your weakest units decide how strong your army is - doesn't this mean that a homogeneous army is the only way to go? No elite units since they will be nerfed down?



4. Will there be important racials? Like flight for the entire race, or the ability to remain stealthed in some terrain? Or passives such as underground cities with more population.

Andy_Dandy wrote:
I hope naval battles will be between warships. Armies should just be very vulnerable units when transported at sea with no or very little opportunity to defend themselves. Easy prey for an enemy fleet.

I haven't read anything about any kinds of fleets being implemented, at the moment. I'm not sure there will be any battleships whatsoever.

I hope naval battles will be between warships. Armies should just be very vulnerable units when transported at sea with no or very little opportunity to defend themselves. Easy prey for an enemy fleet.

I'm curious about the navy/flying transportation mechanics...



Primo, how the player shall get the boats to cross the bodies of water?



Will they be spawned automatically at the desired spot after unlocking certain tech? Will they be generated in the city vel harbors independently, and only required to move to the appropriate tile by the player? Or will they be produced by the player her/himself like any other units, in queue?



Secundo, will the flying units have some maximum capacity? Or the "Flying Transportation" ability shall be given to the whole army, i.e. even one unit with this skill 'll be able to lift the whole army?



Tertio, does the point "No battle can be launched from or against an army standing on an obstacle or sea tile" means that no battle can be waged between those tile types? Or that there won't be any battles on those types of tiles too?



Cause the latter would mean that there wont be any naval battles. Even the ones looking similarly to the normal ones, only with different grounds

(something like in HoMM series: http://tinyurl.com/o6afqhz - in terms of visual background, of course, not the mechanics themselves )



And that would be a shame...

T41 wrote:
Can you only have 1 here per army/city like in ES, or can you stack heroes?

I think it would be a bit like when you have a hero assigned to a fleet and that fleet visits a system that has a hero assigned to that system. I think multiple units but not heroes. I could be wrong though.



DarkMeph

Can you only have 1 here per army/city like in ES, or can you stack heroes?

some questions (sorry for this being so long)



1. will cities have health bars and need to have prolonged sieges even if they have no garrison? or will they be automatically captured?

2. will there be a cap on armies like there is in endless space and if so, can you use techs/quests to increase it?

3. will there be any factions that specialize in the water? will there be any sort of merchant marine system that can be countered by pirates?

4. will there be any islands that you race to build a city on?

5. will there be large heavy siege units, will there be any sort of artillery used to weaken cities, and will heavy units be able to be airlifted or only lighter units?

6. and finally, you say battles can not be launched against armies on an obstacle or sea tile. can flying/navies attack an army that is embarked as a coastal defense, and if so will the armies be able to defend themselves? can armies in the water launch amphibious invasions against a city or building? also will ranged units be able to fire on armies in the water or in obstacle tiles? when i say this i am thinking of a sort of volley fire instead of any accurate shots. also, can you set traps or have special units designed to injure the hero such as snipers?

Sounds like Civilization and Endless Space had a baby, and it looks amazing!

This probably not the place for this suggestion but what about tunnels could they be implemented? I am not saying moving the entire army underground but if you had units that could do this when you are besieging an enemy city.



DarkMeph