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[Draft] Unit Comparison Table

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9 years ago
Feb 11, 2016, 1:31:17 PM
lilyophelia wrote:
They changed based on era, BPrado. Their stats are very close to the foragers, except they tend to be a little stronger than foragers.




That is correct. Base stats are the Foragers', except levelling up with eras. smiley: smile
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8 years ago
Oct 12, 2016, 7:21:42 PM
Thanks for the effort!

However, there is something seriously wrong with this forum post! Dimensions etc are really weird, I had to scroll down for minutes to get to the table..


Ravaeron


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9 years ago
Jan 16, 2016, 11:32:44 AM
I think this should be stickied, it is a valuable resource.
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 12:02:25 AM
So, I've been slowly putting together a table showing the base units compared to one another. It's still very much a work in progress but I figured I'd post it here in rough form to give some indication of what I'm doing. The table is broken down into several columns showing information about each unit with the units' traits at the very end. I'll post a legend for the "cost" and a definition list for the "traits" following this post.



As this is still a work in progress, expect it to be updated frequently and I am, of course, open to suggestions. It should be stated the "speed" column is out-of-battle movement speed, I'll add battle movement later but that takes a bit more time.



The final work will be an attached spreadsheet for download, which will include all of this information, as well as a unit comparison tab where you can show units side-by-side and a search field where you can type in a certain trait and it will show you which units and equipment have that trait. That is still some time away though.



DISCLAIMER:The costs are their base values before any variables are added. Production costs increase throughout the game based on the current era, number of cities and other variables. The values listed in this chart are the base values with no variables attached.







[TD="width:135,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]FACTION[/TD]

[TD="width:118,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]UNIT NAME[/TD]

[TD="width:66,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]TYPE[/TD]

[TD="width:233,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]COST[/TD]

[TD="width:36,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]LIFE[/TD]

[TD="width:51,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]SPEED[/TD]

[TD="width:60,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]ATTACK[/TD]

[TD="width:68,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]DEFENSE[/TD]

[TD="width:77,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]INITIATIVE[/TD]

[TD="width:64,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]DAMAGE[/TD]

[TD="width:576,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]TRAITS[/TD]













































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































Wild Walkers Settler Infantry 134(I) 1(W) 24 4 22 9 18 10 Colonization, Blocked Growth, Unsellable, Forest Rage, Cavalry Slayer 2
Wild Walkers Dekari Ranger Ranged 78(I) 60 4 51 18 35 22 Long Range, Forest Rage, Point Blank Power 1, Block 1, Sharp Sense 1
Wild Walkers Agache Shaman Support 30(I) 52 4 22 36 30 16 Range, Bark Skin 3, Forest Rage, Slow Down
Wild Walkers Tenei Walker Infantry 140(I) 180 4 34 46 18 42 Forest Rage, Sweep Strike Back 2
Broken Lords Settler Infantry 134(I) 1(W) 24 4 22 9 18 10 Colonization, Unsellable, Dust Care, Cavalry Slayer 2
Broken Lords Stalwarts Infantry 78(I) 140 4 27 52 10 22 Dust Care, Soul Leech, Fast 1, Infantry Slayer 1, Block 1, Sharp Sense 1
Broken Lords Ryder Cavalry 60(I) 108 6 37 34 22 32 Dust Care, Charge 1, Life Drain 2, Slow 1, Stun 1
Broken Lords Dust Bishop Support 120(I) 144 4 14 28 6 34 Range, Dust Care, Life Siphon, Exhaustion 1
Vaulters/Mezari Settler Infantry 134(I) 1(W) 24 4 22 9 18 10 Colonization, Blocked Growth, Unsellable, Cavalry Slayer 2
Vaulters/mezari Marine Ranged 98(I) 68 4 47 22 21 34 Range, Technolover, Point Blank Power 1, Block 1, Sharp Sense 1
Vaulters/Mezari Dawn Officer Cavalry 80(I) 116 6 27 38 33 22 Charge 1, Fast 2, Technolover, Ranged Slayer 1, Block 1, Sharp Sense 1
Vaulters/Mezari Titan Infantry 140(I) 156 4 33 56 14 30 Defensive Impulse, Slow 1, Technolover, Infantry Slayer 1, Block 1, Sharp Sense 1
Necrophages Settler Infantry 134(I) 1(W) 24 4 22 9 18 10 Colonization, Blocked Growth, Unsellable, Disease Immunity, Cavalry Slayer 2
Necrophages Forager Infantry 78(I) 100 4 31 38 31 24 Disease 1, Disease Immunity, Ranged Slayer 1, Block 1, Sharp Sense 1
Necrophages Necrodrone Flying 144(I) 124 6 48 36 30 46 Disease Immunity, Disease 1, Fly, Sweep Strike Back 2
Necrophages Proliferator Support 120(I) 52 4 22 32 26 32 Range, Disease Immunity, Parasitism, Vaccination, Sweep Strike Back 2
Ardent Mages Settler Infantry 134(I) 1(W) 24 4 22 9 18 10 Ardent Fire, Colonization, Blocked Growth, Unsellable, Cavalry Slayer 2
Ardent Mages Telsem Warlock Infantry
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 10:21:39 AM
As I said in another thread, you are an angel.



Very well done! And thank you so much for all the effort and time you've put.



Question. Since tier 3 units are always going to be level 2 when first unlocked, is the cost shown here taking their level into account or is level also removed like every other variable? If so, how were you able to see their cost at level 1?
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 12:46:46 PM
The level is removed like every other variable. The costs you see listed are found from starting a new game and before you build your first city, go to the unit editor and edit your starting units (Settler and starting units) and then going to the research screen and hovering over their research module. It will display their current industry cost under your empire's current conditions (no city, level 1, no other variables) which is as close as I can get to the raw industry cost without parsing the game's data files.
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 12:51:55 PM
I see. Excellent!



Does seem like the Eneqa wing is a bit over priced, from the looks of things.
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 3:59:26 PM
I agree. It's a powerful unit but I'm not sure it's worth quite the price. To be fair, I haven't play tested its effectiveness too much yet so I'm not sure how well it holds up.
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 4:24:42 PM
I've played Ardent Mages several times (only sp), and from my experience, the Eneqa Wing is quite a potent unit. A good flyer with good stats, filling the role of tank in the Ardent Mage military. The fact that it revives makes it quite durable, esp if supported by a Drakken hero.



That said, I don't think the 250 smiley: industry is justified, esp when comparable units are much cheaper (the necrodrone, for instance, is stat wise quite similar, with the added benefit of being already researched and having disease. And yet it is still more than a 100 smiley: industry cheaper). Personally, I think a 200 smiley: industry cost for the Eneqa Wing is more appropriate. Still expensive by virtue of its survivability, but not excessively so.
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 4:47:06 PM
This is an amazing resource; thank you very much.



One clerical, formatting suggestion: I think most stats are intuitively linked in pairs and hence it would be better if they are next to each other for quick unit appraisals. So instead of "LIFE SPEED ATTACK DEFENSE INITIATIVE DAMAGE" format, it would be better to have something like "LIFE DEFENSE DAMAGE ATTACK SPEED INITIATIVE," etc. So if you want to measure a unit's tanking capacity, the relevant stats (HPs and Defense) would be right next to one another.



Of course, this may matter more for someone like me, 1) who is old and have eye-sight issues; and 2) who has a tendency to over-rationalize or systematize everything! smiley: wink



Also, are these all up-dated stats? I haven't used Sisters in several games, but I thought they got a more substantial boost than what you've posted. But I could obviously be wrong, given my fleeting memory - and mind! - these days.
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 4:49:21 PM
KnightofPhoenix wrote:
I've played Ardent Mages several times (only sp), and from my experience, the Eneqa Wing is quite a potent unit. A good flyer with good stats, filling the role of tank in the Ardent Mage military. The fact that it revives makes it quite durable, esp if supported by a Drakken hero.



That said, I don't think the 250 smiley: industry is justified, esp when comparable units are much cheaper (the necrodrone, for instance, is stat wise quite similar, with the added benefit of being already researched and having disease. And yet it is still more than a 100 smiley: industry cheaper). Personally, I think a 200 smiley: industry cost for the Eneqa Wing is more appropriate. Still expensive by virtue of its survivability, but not excessively so.




I don't use them, because they look so goddarn-awful.



Really, I want to play more races than just Vaulters/Mezari and Wild Walkers, but the faction aesthetics - yikes. But then I must be the only TBS/4x player who make faction/race choices heavily on the basis of aesthetics.
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 4:58:00 PM
Xenophon wrote:
This is an amazing resource; thank you very much.




Thank you, happy to help.



Xenophon wrote:
One clerical, formatting suggestion: I think most stats are intuitively linked in pairs and hence it would be better if they are next to each other for quick unit appraisals. So instead of "LIFE SPEED ATTACK DEFENSE INITIATIVE DAMAGE" format, it would be better to have something like "LIFE DEFENSE DAMAGE ATTACK SPEED INITIATIVE," etc. So if you want to measure a unit's tanking capacity, the relevant stats (HPs and Defense) would be right next to one another.




A good suggestion. I put them in the order they were on the unit display in-game but I think I can shuffle it around to put the paired stats together, I'll look into it.



Xenophon wrote:
Also, are these all up-dated stats? I haven't used Sisters in several games, but I thought they got a more substantial boost than what you've posted. But I could obviously be wrong, given my fleeting memory - and mind! - these days.




Yes, these are straight out of the game with the latest patches, updates and expansions.
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 5:06:11 PM
Xenophon wrote:
I don't use them, because they look so goddarn-awful.





Interesting, I think the Eneqa Wing is one of the most interesting and cool looking models in the game. The Ardent Mage aesthetics in general are quite attractive to me.



Would it help if I tell you that the Eneqa Wings are most likely not birds, but in fact Ateshi Zealots that have been mutilated, mutated, and transformed beyond recognition, burning agonizingly in perpetuity (listen carefully to how they scream in game)? smiley: stickouttongue



The subtle similarities between both the Zealot and Eneqa models is a very cool little detail that speaks volumes.
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 5:10:00 PM
KnightofPhoenix wrote:




Would it help if I tell you that the Eneqa Wings are most likely not birds, but in fact Ateshi Zealots that have been mutilated, mutated, and transformed beyond recognition, burning agonizingly in perpetuity (listen carefully to how they scream in game)? smiley: stickouttongue




That makes it worse! smiley: wink



I am a conservative guy, so I'd prefer units that look "normal" and have conventional backgrounds (of course, with normalcy and conventionality within a fantasy context overall). For instance, Broken Lords is a faction I'd love on the mechanics alone (I like tanky characters/units in both RPG/TBS games and hate the "range" game), but they are quasi-undead, so it's a no go. So I am doomed to weakling shooters of the Vaulters and Wild Walkers! smiley: wink
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 5:35:30 PM
Technically the Broken Lords are Dust-altered individuals who have foregone physical form and exist as Dust apparitions enchanting suits of armor. They're not really "undead" so much as "unliving."



Think "spirit Paladins" in terms of a fantasy setting and they're a lot easier to stomach for a conservative guy like yourself. smiley: smile
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 6:54:44 PM
Enequa Wings on manual battles are the single most annoying unit in the game, for the fact that you can only kill one of them if you "one shot" them during your turn. Any unit can occupy the tile in which the egg is, making it invulnerable until that unit dies. Manual also implies stun, so either you make little use of morale or risk getting your main body of army to be useless for half the battle. Enequa Wings have high stats for everything, making morale extremely efficient (and glory or death, and shared wisdom). The more you damage it, the more attack it will have to go through your own morale´s defense. It´s not overpriced.
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 8:17:51 PM
Thank you so much BPrado!



I'm curious about how level impacts these stats (there must be some kind of straight improvement?) as well as how +% improvements work... No, I haven't bothered to figure this out yet smiley: smile



I'm a big fan of Enequa Wing when playing as AM. They're the one AM unit that has some survivability, and they're the only unit that gets any play out of the Ardent Fire capacity. They can also steamroll really well because of their on-death heal. For sure, they need to be used with some healthy stun-spell artillery support, and I've had some occasions where healthy eggs have failed to survive the battle for some reason. (However, I've never really figured out a way to take advantage of the buggy egg behavior, and even then, another unit doesn't quite guarantee invulnerability, there's some weird stuff going on with orders that means that units can hit either the egg or another unit on top of the egg.)
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9 years ago
Jan 12, 2016, 9:44:02 PM
BPrado wrote:
Manual also implies stun, so either you make little use of morale or risk getting your main body of army to be useless for half the battle.




That, in my humble and not as experienced opinion, is more indication that the stun spell needs to have a substantial increase in price and have it be a one time use only (or have it so only AM heroes can cast it), as opposed to justifying the cost of the Eneqa. For sure Eneqa wing cost reduction needs to be supplemented by an increase in the cost of the stun spell (which I prefer over a nerf).
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