By the way, is it me or the shared mind trope is a bit overdone ? It's the aspect I don't really like in the unfallen description so far. It goes against the whole individuality thing and we gotta have yet another academy hero borne out of Dust...

For the specific case of the amoeba they were cooperative, but from a visual viewpoint I don't think it's easy to feature them with other or simple doing... stuff actually. Same for harmony.  Take that concept art with the three "brokers" we can get what is happening to this individual. But adding a shocked amoeba in their water suit or something ? 

Sotek wrote:

Ok, so basicly confirmation of the United Empire/Mezari in the game.

The most interesting thing to me is that, actually, Mezari is (part of ?) the United Empire.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/392110/discussions/0/350541595110331163/?ctp=2

Enjoy.

So if I understood it correctly and Frogsquadron is right (who truly knows what goes on in Slowhand's writing device? I do seem to remember the Roving Clans and Ardent Mages were offshoots from the Lords of the Amber Plains, who were in Auriga long before the Mezari), the Mezari are the United Empire at an early stage. Mazen might even be the human homeworld.

Curioser and curioser.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

Gwydden wrote:

The Amoeba could also fill the ecologist niche, however. They would have to be altered somewhat gameplay-wise, but lorewise they would remain much the same. The United Empire then would take the role of industrialists and we would have another repeated ideology. The Vaulters might make them in as scientists, or we might get another new faction.

@Ridiculi: If you put it like that... it might work. I don't object to "positive" representations of humanity. I quite like the Pilgrims, the Vaulters and the Roving Clans. I would just like to avoid cheesy, exaggerated depictions the likes of "in the future, humans love all other races and want nothing more than to create a galaxy based on peace and collaboration. Also, they ride unicorns and smoke weed while listening to the Beatles. Right on, man!"

That doesn't sound like something us humans would do though, considering our history. If anything we would be very distrustful of other races, if not borderline xenophobic.

Anyways, I have a very bad feeling about the last 2 unrevealed factions. Take a look at this picture taken from a recently published video:

Reminds you of someone?

We have Lumeris, Sophons, Cravers, Humans (duh), the Three Eyed Aliens and Some robots with floating limbs.

Now, I'm going to be honest, I hate the three Eyed Aliens and if they do get added in the game as a Major Faction over the Automatons/Sowers/Amoeba/Harmony, who are not only visually more pleasing and intriguing, then someone in the art department isn't doing their jobs right, if they think this is what fans want.

I'm  okay with the fact that Amplitude wants to add new races to the new game, but if you go down that path, people expect at the very least, the same visual innovation levels as ES1. 

When a sequel/reboot/whatever cuts out content that people liked from the first instalment and replaces it with substandard one that nobody asked for, then the end product can only suffer from it.

If new factions are to be added, then I expect nothing less that what the first game gave us.

I know this sounds like harsh criticism, and on some level it is, but I'm only doing it because I loved the first game to bits, and I feel like replacing  unique and vibrant factions with "generic humanoid 3-eyed squid guy" and "yet another robo faction that we didn't need" is the wrong decision.

Again, as an example, the last two factions revealed (Lumeris & Vodyani), while not necessarily suffering from bad design, didn't get me excited to play them, as I don't feel like they quite fill the metaphorical shoes of their predecessors.

 As a comparison, factions in the first game like the Amoeba, Harmony or Automatons made me say: Wow, I've never seen factions like these in any game before, they're truly unique and I can't wait to play them!".

On the other hand, factions like the Lumeris or Vodyani only made me say: "Oh, cool, not really what I want, but I'll occasionally play them."

Now, I don't doubt some people like these factions, and that is okay, as everyone has different tastes.

But I can't help feeling that if 3-eyed squids and Robo-Dudes are going to be the last unrevealed Major Factions (seeing how Humans and Unfallen will be the other two), I'm going to be very disappointed with the final faction roster, as these races only evoke a reaction of "Ugh...well that's a wasted slot that could be filled with something more interesting", which is not a good sign for a game that focuses on replayability.

Anyways, I really hope I'm wrong and that's not artwork depicting the main races in the game (seeing how every other race but those two are Major Factions), because if it is, then I'll only be playing one, maybe two factions out of eight consistently (and be able to enjoy the experience).

Now compare that to ES1 where I found well over half the roster of races playable/enjoyable and you will see why I don't want those two to be options.

First, I'm fairly sure the robot thingy with floating limbs is a member of that one minor faction we voted on a while back.

Two, don't forget that both the Harmony and Automatons were voted into the game. The Harmony as dlc, and the Automatons as a GtG community made faction. There are reasons why they seem more unique. As for how 'meh' the Lumeris and Vodyani seem to play? To me their faction affinities seem quite unique. It just depends on your playstyle in these games.

Honestly? I wouldn't mind two human factions. Vaulters and United Empire would be my hope. 

Gwydden wrote:

Sotek wrote:

Ok, so basicly confirmation of the United Empire/Mezari in the game.

The most interesting thing to me is that, actually, Mezari is (part of ?) the United Empire.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/392110/discussions/0/350541595110331163/?ctp=2

Enjoy.

So if I understood it correctly and Frogsquadron is right (who truly knows what goes on in Slowhand's writing device? I do seem to remember the Roving Clans and Ardent Mages were offshoots from the Lords of the Amber Plains, who were in Auriga long before the Mezari), the Mezari are the United Empire at an early stage. Mazen might even be the human homeworld.

Curioser and curioser.

Regarding the Lords of the Amber Plains, the Broken Lords questline indicates that they were not actually human, but Concrete Endless. Design documents for the Roving Clans (or perhaps it was the Ardent Mages document - regardless, those two share the same origin) did state that those factions were originally intended to be descended from the Lords of the Amber Plains, but unless the Endless were actually human after all, those original intentions surely changed. Especially in light of Frogsquadron's suggestion that the Roving Clans and Ardent Mages are actually descended from the same Mezari survivors as the Vaulters. Which raises a few questions, but those questions may not be best suited for an Endless Space 2 thread.

For a while now, I've suspected that we might actually be getting the "Mezari Empire" in ES2, basically fusing the Mezari and the United Empire into a single entity. I wonder how Mezari-ish the UE/Mezari will be in ES2, or if they will essentially remain the same as in ES1.

Crixler wrote:

Regarding the Lords of the Amber Plains, the Broken Lords questline indicates that they were not actually human, but Concrete Endless. Design documents for the Roving Clans (or perhaps it was the Ardent Mages document - regardless, those two share the same origin) did state that those factions were originally intended to be descended from the Lords of the Amber Plains, but unless the Endless were actually human after all, those original intentions surely changed. Especially in light of Frogsquadron's suggestion that the Roving Clans and Ardent Mages are actually descended from the same Mezari survivors as the Vaulters. Which raises a few questions, but those questions may not be best suited for an Endless Space 2 thread.

For a while now, I've suspected that we might actually be getting the "Mezari Empire" in ES2, basically fusing the Mezari and the United Empire into a single entity. I wonder how Mezari-ish the UE/Mezari will be in ES2, or if they will essentially remain the same as in ES1.

I've heard both versions of it, but I'm very confused as to what they ultimately decided upon. I mean, they look human enough here. And while I've played through their faction quest, I don't remember anything in particular that suggested they were Endless.

It is interesting that you should talk about a Mezari Empire. The artwork we've had of humans so far, not including that which appears to be generic filler, suggests both the United Empire and what looks like Mezari/Vaulters. This led me to think that we might be seeing both factions from the beginning, but maybe they are one and the same.

I agree with undead i hope that the generic  4 eyes alien guy is just some generic alien placed there on the art concept and not an actual race but to be fair while the lumeris seem pretty generic to me ( which isnt bad since the idea of space mafia while common is enjoyable to me and their ship designs are my favorite so far) the vodyani have pretty cool designs still i hope and i really hope that we get to see more amoeba/sower/horatio like races since that was the selling point for me the fact that the game had races so original that feel truly alien and not just blue/green/red skinned humanoids with small variations like extra arms or legs you look at an amoeba or to an automaton and you see something truly alien which is lovely :)

Gwydden wrote:

Crixler wrote:

Regarding the Lords of the Amber Plains, the Broken Lords questline indicates that they were not actually human, but Concrete Endless. Design documents for the Roving Clans (or perhaps it was the Ardent Mages document - regardless, those two share the same origin) did state that those factions were originally intended to be descended from the Lords of the Amber Plains, but unless the Endless were actually human after all, those original intentions surely changed. Especially in light of Frogsquadron's suggestion that the Roving Clans and Ardent Mages are actually descended from the same Mezari survivors as the Vaulters. Which raises a few questions, but those questions may not be best suited for an Endless Space 2 thread.

For a while now, I've suspected that we might actually be getting the "Mezari Empire" in ES2, basically fusing the Mezari and the United Empire into a single entity. I wonder how Mezari-ish the UE/Mezari will be in ES2, or if they will essentially remain the same as in ES1.

I've heard both versions of it, but I'm very confused as to what they ultimately decided upon. I mean, they look human enough here. And while I've played through their faction quest, I don't remember anything in particular that suggested they were Endless.

It is interesting that you should talk about a Mezari Empire. The artwork we've had of humans so far, not including that which appears to be generic filler, suggests both the United Empire and what looks like Mezari/Vaulters. This led me to think that we might be seeing both factions from the beginning, but maybe they are one and the same.

Well, the endless have typically been portrayed as very human-like, but with tall faces. And all of those pre-Broken Lords have their faces covered. Broken Lords also typically have fairly tall-looking faces/helmets. Their king, in particular, has a very Endless-y mask.

The main thing linking them to the Concrete Endless is that their questline states that the Temple of the Earth's Core was built by their ancestors. And the Temple of the Earth's Core was built by the Concrete Endless.

An additional, though more subtle and tenuous, link is that some of their art has patterns on their armor and relics that are similar to those found in some Endless ruins and on Vaulter armor (though notably much less prevelant on Mezari armor). Look at the king's chest plate (http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/steamtradingcards/images/6/60/Endless_Legend_Artwork_3.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141003014920), and https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/endlesslegend.gamepedia.com/b/bf/QuestBrokenLords6.png?version=8ee9cd469fbdc6f48c7ff2e71585eb99, http://img12.deviantart.net/aa1b/i/2015/051/9/8/vaulters_quest_step3_by_a_u_r_e_l-d8hsga8.jpg, http://cdn.gameplayinside.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/endless-legends-guide-the-vaulters-featured.jpg. Interestingly, the Dorgheshi also wear similar patterns. Maybe the whole pattern thing is actually nothing, but I think it could be relevant.

solrac137 wrote:

I agree with undead i hope that the generic  4 eyes alien guy is just some generic alien placed there on the art concept and not an actual race but to be fair while the lumeris seem pretty generic to me ( which isnt bad since the idea of space mafia while common is enjoyable to me and their ship designs are my favorite so far) the vodyani have pretty cool designs still i hope and i really hope that we get to see more amoeba/sower/horatio like races since that was the selling point for me the fact that the game had races so original that feel truly alien and not just blue/green/red skinned humanoids with small variations like extra arms or legs you look at an amoeba or to an automaton and you see something truly alien which is lovely :)

Frogsquadron has already said over on the Steam forums to not use art to determine future factions as they like to fill in spots with other designs.   He brought up how most of the progression art always shows humans.

Mokinokaro wrote:

solrac137 wrote:

I agree with undead i hope that the generic  4 eyes alien guy is just some generic alien placed there on the art concept and not an actual race but to be fair while the lumeris seem pretty generic to me ( which isnt bad since the idea of space mafia while common is enjoyable to me and their ship designs are my favorite so far) the vodyani have pretty cool designs still i hope and i really hope that we get to see more amoeba/sower/horatio like races since that was the selling point for me the fact that the game had races so original that feel truly alien and not just blue/green/red skinned humanoids with small variations like extra arms or legs you look at an amoeba or to an automaton and you see something truly alien which is lovely :)

Frogsquadron has already said over on the Steam forums to not use art to determine future factions as they like to fill in spots with other designs.   He brought up how most of the progression art always shows humans.

And yet the Lumeris were featured in artwork long before their reveal. That specific artwork also depicts all of the revealed Major Factions so far. It is not a stretch of logic to assume that 3 eyed abominations from squid hell are a Major Faction as well.

And do we really need another Robot Faction? DO we not have enough of those already? What do they bring to the table that is new and could not be covered visually by the Sowers/Automatons? 

UndeadPuppy wrote:

And yet the Lumeris were featured in artwork long before their reveal. That specific artwork also depicts all of the revealed Major Factions so far. It is not a stretch of logic to assume that 3 eyed abominations from squid hell are a Major Faction as well.

And do we really need another Robot Faction? DO we not have enough of those already? What do they bring to the table that is new and could not be covered visually by the Sowers/Automatons? 

I don't think they will tease two major factions in one picture. So I guess the "3 eyed abominations from squid hell" is either a place holder or a minor faction. Also it's design looks rather bland. The Lumeris has much more detail and emphasis on emotions to it. The 3 eyed alien looks like a placeholder or a design which was done quickly to illustrate the situation. I mean you could easily replace it's head and arm, that's all that is shown. I am not saying it's badly drawn just rather generic. Also it has an overall simple silhouette so it's easy to implement them in the background, which you highlighted in your post.

And for the robot: Perhaps this is the new iteration of the Sowers? Or just a Sower hero? Yes this would deviate a fair bit from their original design. But then look at the Craver in clothes! I can't imagine that they will introduce a new robotic faction when they have the Sowers to build on. OR this is a robotic servant to the Sophon in front of it. The asthetic reminds me of the picture of the Mavros manning the battle mechs. Some similiar round shaped design.

UndeadPuppy wrote:
Mokinokaro wrote:
solrac137 wrote:

I agree with undead i hope that the generic  4 eyes alien guy is just some generic alien placed there on the art concept and not an actual race but to be fair while the lumeris seem pretty generic to me ( which isnt bad since the idea of space mafia while common is enjoyable to me and their ship designs are my favorite so far) the vodyani have pretty cool designs still i hope and i really hope that we get to see more amoeba/sower/horatio like races since that was the selling point for me the fact that the game had races so original that feel truly alien and not just blue/green/red skinned humanoids with small variations like extra arms or legs you look at an amoeba or to an automaton and you see something truly alien which is lovely :)

Frogsquadron has already said over on the Steam forums to not use art to determine future factions as they like to fill in spots with other designs.   He brought up how most of the progression art always shows humans.

And yet the Lumeris were featured in artwork long before their reveal. That specific artwork also depicts all of the revealed Major Factions so far. It is not a stretch of logic to assume that 3 eyed abominations from squid hell are a Major Faction as well.

And do we really need another Robot Faction? DO we not have enough of those already? What do they bring to the table that is new and could not be covered visually by the Sowers/Automatons? 

While I agree that the robot has too much detail in it to just serve as detail in the image, I wouldn't be surprised if the triple eyed alien was just put in there to show off diversity, if it isn't a minor faction. Just look at that image where it is most clear. The artist added more detail and expression to the Lumeri, someone who is further in the background. If three eye is that important, I think they would have given it a bit more attention.

Yes, the factions could use a more diverse range in body type as it stands at the moment, but keep in mind that ES2 is going to be a lot more story driven, especially with the narration system. It helps to have characters a lot more relatable, both in motive and in appearance, to accomplish this. So on top of overlapping a lot with the Epistis, who are also robot ecologists created to maintain a habitat for masters who are long gone and whose population will no doubt give a bonus to food, the sowers just don't really give the player anyway to emotionally connect with them unlike a religious leader with a rebellious heretic brother or a family business taking increasingly more ruthless measures to stay ahead of the competition.

On the note of humans returning, I'm placing my money on the United Empire not returning. At least not like how we remember them. I do see a bright and prosperous future for the Sheredyn's military takeover. At least I think that would be interesting to see and help set it apart from the other popular franchises with emperors of mankind.

The UEU gave me some interesting bizatine wibes, don't you think so ? Imperial yet rotten, 

I know there is quite a demand for a "supremacist terran empire" but the UE was imho and could be stomething in between the federation kind and the w40k just on the left of evil empire kind. OF course in ES1, the UE and Pilgrims were the facets of the Terran civilisation and it could be argued than any race could have several subfactions. But with the senate and new game elements, I think most factions could have different playstyle and politics (like you could do in civ games) which allows more "grey areas". 

The new UE for instance could be militiarist or commercial or pacifist or scientific driven. Maybe in old "human as jack of all trades" design, this faction would have some senate specific mechanic ? 

These are events/technology/promotionnal based artworks. It's quite possible you are trying to read too much into these. If their artists already have some major/minor/discarded designs available they'll put them it to flesh out "multicultural" situations. witthout having to add new aliens from scratch each time.

uriak wrote:

These are events/technology/promotionnal based artworks. It's quite possible you are trying to read too much into these. If their artists already have some major/minor/discarded designs available they'll put them it to flesh out "multicultural" situations. witthout having to add new aliens from scratch each time.

Again, I'm hoping that is the case. Unfortunately, that was said before the Lumeris were revealed as a faction in the game and they featured in promotional artwork as well.

The fact that no dev has confirmed nor denied outright that these two races would be Major Factions or not only make me more worried.

I'm sorry, but I can't look at Squidface alien, compare them to ES1 factions or even ES2 ones and say: Good job! They are on the same level of quality as past and present races and deserve to be a Major Faction in this game.