UndeadPuppy wrote:

I don't know what to say about the Horatio, as their play style revolved around populating the galaxy/expanding and cloning. Literally all of their faction traits were focused on population and hero bonuses.

I'm not entirely sure what the corresponding ideology for ES2 would be if they were to be implemented, which is why a lot of the older races, if added will be mostly, if not completely altered.

As someone who loved the first game, it greatly saddens me that fan favourite factions, like the Amoeba, won't be a playable option in ES2. I just hope that they do make some sort of appearance in the game, either as a DLC, a Minor Faction or just a random cameo.

Other than maybe abstracting their traits a bit or remodeling the faction somewhat, they could make the Horatio's ideology unique to them. It would certainly fit them.

As for the Amoeba returning, well, I think there is a good chance several more of the old factions will do so, in expansions if not in the base game. The question, then, becomes which. It is doubtful all of them will make the cut, at least not as major ones. Truth be told, I am rather glad the Hissho were demoted to minor faction. They were never very interesting and this is a good way to keep them around while leaving the way open for more new factions and better returning ones.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

I don't know what to say about the Horatio, as their play style revolved around populating the galaxy/expanding and cloning. Literally all of their faction traits were focused on population and hero bonuses.

I'm not entirely sure what the corresponding ideology for ES2 would be if they were to be implemented, which is why a lot of the older races, if added will be mostly, if not completely altered.

As someone who loved the first game, it greatly saddens me that fan favourite factions, like the Amoeba, won't be a playable option in ES2. I just hope that they do make some sort of appearance in the game, either as a DLC, a Minor Faction or just a random cameo.

I think that the horatio would have an industrialist / religious focus industrialist based on the fact that in the end food = industry more people more production as for religious well they are basically the living concept of cult of personality. 

UndeadPuppy wrote:

As someone who loved the first game, it greatly saddens me that fan favourite factions, like the Amoeba, won't be a playable option in ES2. I just hope that they do make some sort of appearance in the game, either as a DLC, a Minor Faction or just a random cameo.

Personally I think I would be okay with the Amoeba as a minor/NPC faction. Because their trait would put them in a very interesting position during the early game, especially if you give them a strong start and make them easily accessible. You could see some interesting competition among major factons trying to get access to their early game advantages. 

It's a lot of ifs, but I think it could be very fun.

As for the unknown major factions, I agree that more new factions would be cool. At the top of my list would be a race tied to the Concrete Endless as a counterweight to the vodyani. Not necessarily as blooded enemies or anything, but just as a way to add some flavor between factions. Maybe the Sowers/Automatons could fill that role?  Although you can argue that the Vodyani already borrow heavily from parts of the lore of both races so they could end up being more of what we already have.

NexiKuro wrote:

Personally I think I would be okay with the Amoeba as a minor/NPC faction. Because their trait would put them in a very interesting position during the early game, especially if you give them a strong start and make them easily accessible. You could see some interesting competition among major factons trying to get access to their early game advantages. 

It's a lot of ifs, but I think it could be very fun.

As for the unknown major factions, I agree that more new factions would be cool. At the top of my list would be a race tied to the Concrete Endless as a counterweight to the vodyani. Not necessarily as blooded enemies or anything, but just as a way to add some flavor between factions. Maybe the Sowers/Automatons could fill that role?  Although you can argue that the Vodyani already borrow heavily from parts of the lore of both races so they could end up being more of what we already have.

It's funny you should say that since the Amoeba actually are a branch of the Concrete Endless according to the lore bible.  They willingly "forgot" their past so they could live in peace without the burdens of their ancestors, which makes them an interesting foil to the Vodyani.

wintermute213 wrote:

NexiKuro wrote:

Personally I think I would be okay with the Amoeba as a minor/NPC faction. Because their trait would put them in a very interesting position during the early game, especially if you give them a strong start and make them easily accessible. You could see some interesting competition among major factons trying to get access to their early game advantages. 

It's a lot of ifs, but I think it could be very fun.

As for the unknown major factions, I agree that more new factions would be cool. At the top of my list would be a race tied to the Concrete Endless as a counterweight to the vodyani. Not necessarily as blooded enemies or anything, but just as a way to add some flavor between factions. Maybe the Sowers/Automatons could fill that role?  Although you can argue that the Vodyani already borrow heavily from parts of the lore of both races so they could end up being more of what we already have.

It's funny you should say that since the Amoeba actually are a branch of the Concrete Endless according to the lore bible.  They willingly "forgot" their past so they could live in peace without the burdens of their ancestors, which makes them an interesting foil to the Vodyani.

They may have been Endless at one point but they completely changed their biological structure to the point where they are no longer the same race.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

Sowers were created by the Virtuals. 

I think the concretes had a hand in shaping the culture of the Hissho.

The Automatons were created by another race that died out, not the Endless.

Kind of missing my point, though I should've specified reworked Sowers/Automatons, as tying them to the Concrete Endless would entail retconning them to some degree. Although in my opinion the Sowers' focus on making stuff habitable seems pretty in line with Concrete Endless ideals anyway.(Though the sowers being AI part less so I guess.)

And to elaborate even further,

if memory serves, the Sowers operate on The Calling, a 'holy' mandate from the Virtual Endless, while the Automatons are remnants of a race that killed itself through over industrialization/pollution. Both hit very close to the Vodyani as they are a race that saved themselves from over industrialization/pollution through a Virtual artifact that led to them Worshipping the Virtual Endless as gods and basically acting on their behalf. against dissenters.

So in that sense it doesn't seem helpful to add either to the current Major Faction roster without change, as both have some amount of overlap with the Vodyani in terrms of origin and that could make their stories similar.

wintermute213 wrote:

It's funny you should say that since the Amoeba actually are a branch of the Concrete Endless according to the lore bible.  They willingly "forgot" their past so they could live in peace without the burdens of their ancestors, which makes them an interesting foil to the Vodyani.

That's so cool! I wasn't actually aware of that, neat. And as long as we're getting some interspecial flavor stuff I'm happy.

Crzyvy wrote:

With the detailed political system in place and Amplitude focus on it, i speculate, that the past "Human" factions will be merged into 1.

United Empire being the ruling party at the start, obviously with the Industrial agenda.

Vaulters/Mezari as Scientists

Sheredyn the Militarists

Pilgrims the Pacifists

And 2 new ones for Ecologists and Religious

The Jack-of-all-Trades Faction, the gameplay will revolve around shifting power between the groups and changing not just the senate composition, but also Faction Traits. With parties being more rebellious and difficult to control, but also giving more benefits to the Faction.

Don't know much about Endless lore, but this makes sense. Humans often get cast in the generalist role in video games. Major factions seem to take a game play element/system and focus on it. The focus here would be politics.

endlessEpp wrote:

Don't know much about Endless lore, but this makes sense. Humans often get cast in the generalist role in video games. Major factions seem to take a game play element/system and focus on it. The focus here would be politics.

Yeah, but in the case of ES there isn't really any reason for all humans to co-exist as a single society/political entity.  The Pilgrims fought a civil war against the UE and completely seceded, having totally different values and ideals from them.  They would probably fit far better in Sophon society than they would with other humans.

I know it probably won't happen but I'd like to see ES2 really step out of the box and not give humans their own faction.  Instead, human populations would be dispersed among different factions.  The Pilgrims joining the Sophons and forming a party/block within their state, the more business-oriented elements of the Empire gravitating towards the Lumeris, and the militarists joining other groups or maybe existing independently as a minor.  I think this would actually make the political system more interesting than throwing humans together into an artificial blob.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

I'm okay with them adding any human faction with the exception of the UE. *throws holy water at them*

I swear, it's like they took the worst traits of humanity and dumped them into one one faction. The Pilgrims are closer to what I believe humanity would/should be like in the far future. (That and they had awesome ship deigns)

This^
Although I'm hoping this time around, I think it would be fun to have the human faction be generalists with a focus on having a more "melting pot" society, where the more species they have in their overall empire the better off they function. Give them a unique way to play around with the propaganda system or how they attract immigrants and I think you'd have something special

Gwydden wrote:

Ridiculi wrote:

UndeadPuppy wrote:

I'm okay with them adding any human faction with the exception of the UE. *throws holy water at them*

I swear, it's like they took the worst traits of humanity and dumped them into one one faction. The Pilgrims are closer to what I believe humanity would/should be like in the far future. (That and they had awesome ship deigns)

This^
Although I'm hoping this time around, I think it would be fun to have the human faction be generalists with a focus on having a more "melting pot" society, where the more species they have in their overall empire the better off they function. Give them a unique way to play around with the propaganda system or how they attract immigrants and I think you'd have something special

I hate to be contrarian, but that sounds a lot like the humans in Master of Orion, which in turn seem to be based on Star Trek's federation. I consider that a rather amusingly simplistic and idealistic depiction of humanity and find it hard to take seriously.

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but a quick look at history would seem to suggest the United Empire is far more plausible.  They also occupy a niche that is currently free: that of the resident industrialist faction. They also fit better with the current roster, where everyone appears to be morally dubious at best in some way or the other, and have appeared in concept art. I suppose it is possible we might get a completely new human faction, but there are a lot of them to choose from already so that doesn't seem necessary.

I don't mind the Pilgrims or the Mezari/Vaulters either, but I fear they have been made redundant by the Vodyani and the Sophons. The Horatio might still make it in as a secondary human faction, but I think they're too weird to serve as the default one. The factions from EL are unlikely to make it into this game, and their roles have also been filled up by others: the Broken Lords and Ardent Mages have been displaced by the Vodyani, the Roving Clans and the Forgotten by the Lumeris, and the Wild Walkers by the Amoeba (if they make it in, which I think is likely) and now the Unfallen.

You're just a cynic  

Just kidding, but with the new political parties, they could have the same capacity to be "space jerks" if the military party is in control of the senate. Think of the Tau in Warhammer 40k; they incorporate many other races into their empire, but I don't think anyone is going to accuse them of being altruistic about it...

Ridiculi wrote:

Gwydden wrote:

Ridiculi wrote:

UndeadPuppy wrote:

I'm okay with them adding any human faction with the exception of the UE. *throws holy water at them*

I swear, it's like they took the worst traits of humanity and dumped them into one one faction. The Pilgrims are closer to what I believe humanity would/should be like in the far future. (That and they had awesome ship deigns)

This^
Although I'm hoping this time around, I think it would be fun to have the human faction be generalists with a focus on having a more "melting pot" society, where the more species they have in their overall empire the better off they function. Give them a unique way to play around with the propaganda system or how they attract immigrants and I think you'd have something special

I hate to be contrarian, but that sounds a lot like the humans in Master of Orion, which in turn seem to be based on Star Trek's federation. I consider that a rather amusingly simplistic and idealistic depiction of humanity and find it hard to take seriously.

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but a quick look at history would seem to suggest the United Empire is far more plausible.  They also occupy a niche that is currently free: that of the resident industrialist faction. They also fit better with the current roster, where everyone appears to be morally dubious at best in some way or the other, and have appeared in concept art. I suppose it is possible we might get a completely new human faction, but there are a lot of them to choose from already so that doesn't seem necessary.

I don't mind the Pilgrims or the Mezari/Vaulters either, but I fear they have been made redundant by the Vodyani and the Sophons. The Horatio might still make it in as a secondary human faction, but I think they're too weird to serve as the default one. The factions from EL are unlikely to make it into this game, and their roles have also been filled up by others: the Broken Lords and Ardent Mages have been displaced by the Vodyani, the Roving Clans and the Forgotten by the Lumeris, and the Wild Walkers by the Amoeba (if they make it in, which I think is likely) and now the Unfallen.

You're just a cynic  

Just kidding, but with the new political parties, they could have the same capacity to be "space jerks" if the military party is in control of the senate. Think of the Tau in Warhammer 40k; they incorporate many other races into their empire, but I don't think anyone is going to accuse them of being altruistic about it...

Ahhhh yes, the Tau and their communist, pheromone mind controlled, multikulti  empire... somehow I don't think they would be the best example to base a human faction around.

Gwydden wrote:

Ridiculi wrote:

UndeadPuppy wrote:

I'm okay with them adding any human faction with the exception of the UE. *throws holy water at them*

I swear, it's like they took the worst traits of humanity and dumped them into one one faction. The Pilgrims are closer to what I believe humanity would/should be like in the far future. (That and they had awesome ship deigns)

This^
Although I'm hoping this time around, I think it would be fun to have the human faction be generalists with a focus on having a more "melting pot" society, where the more species they have in their overall empire the better off they function. Give them a unique way to play around with the propaganda system or how they attract immigrants and I think you'd have something special

I hate to be contrarian, but that sounds a lot like the humans in Master of Orion, which in turn seem to be based on Star Trek's federation. I consider that a rather amusingly simplistic and idealistic depiction of humanity and find it hard to take seriously.

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but a quick look at history would seem to suggest the United Empire is far more plausible.  They also occupy a niche that is currently free: that of the resident industrialist faction. They also fit better with the current roster, where everyone appears to be morally dubious at best in some way or the other, and have appeared in concept art. I suppose it is possible we might get a completely new human faction, but there are a lot of them to choose from already so that doesn't seem necessary.

I don't mind the Pilgrims or the Mezari/Vaulters either, but I fear they have been made redundant by the Vodyani and the Sophons. The Horatio might still make it in as a secondary human faction, but I think they're too weird to serve as the default one. The factions from EL are unlikely to make it into this game, and their roles have also been filled up by others: the Broken Lords and Ardent Mages have been displaced by the Vodyani, the Roving Clans and the Forgotten by the Lumeris, and the Wild Walkers by the Amoeba (if they make it in, which I think is likely) and now the Unfallen.

I had the thought that perhaps the Horatio will end up as one of the 16 minor factions, perhaps with the religious political ideology. Also, I don't see how the Amoeba would fit in. With 6 political Ideologies and 8 major factions, it doesn't seem likely that any given politics will be represented more than twice. Currently we have Sophons (Scientist), Cravers (Militarist), Lumeris (Pacifist), Vodyani (Religious) and Unfallen (Pacifist), there is room for one Ecologist faction and one Industrialist faction, as well as another repeat. The Amoeba's niche as the diplomatic pacifists seem to be directly taken over by the Unfallen, and as I mentioned they're probably not going to have 3 different pacifist factions at launch.

The Amoeba could also fill the ecologist niche, however. They would have to be altered somewhat gameplay-wise, but lorewise they would remain much the same. The United Empire then would take the role of industrialists and we would have another repeated ideology. The Vaulters might make them in as scientists, or we might get another new faction.

@Ridiculi: If you put it like that... it might work. I don't object to "positive" representations of humanity. I quite like the Pilgrims, the Vaulters and the Roving Clans. I would just like to avoid cheesy, exaggerated depictions the likes of "in the future, humans love all other races and want nothing more than to create a galaxy based on peace and collaboration. Also, they ride unicorns and smoke weed while listening to the Beatles. Right on, man!"

uriak wrote:

I feel there is still an issue with harmony/amoeba/sowers etc. They are quite original, non humanoïds and have very distinct societies and approach BUT

I feel like the focus in ES2 is about the population and their interactions. Senate, trading, academy, all interesting grounds for this interaction between population. Some of the older factions in ES1 may be difficult to fit it. Keep in mind we already have Cravers that eat everyone, and Vodyani who consumes everyone, that's already 2 factions our of 8 that don't gives a very cooeperative wibe. 

IF you add amoeva that can't be shown interacting with other peeps, Sowers/Automatons that are just basically machines with a task in mind, the Harmony... things, then Horatio and their quest to replace all the universe by themselves, that doesn't seem to lay ground many interactions.

We could have a couple human factions (or not, the 3 eyed people could replace one) The UE feels like the main candidate, because they have this amoral wibe that still allows to integrate them in the great galactic game (they don't have any "purge"/"consume" motto after all) 

Maybe I went not as much into the lore of ES1 as you, but I still feel factions like amoeba/Sowers were basically fun piectures of some individuals and special rules. They feel a bit like the kind of weird encounters in a dr who episode, that is minor factions. Of course it's possible that they may come back or at least some new factions with similar attribute and non humanoïd semblance.

Not to forget it's entirely possible (and likely) that all this concept art is just that, and not made to really introduce real factions. If they happen to have some 3 eyed guys they may as well reuse them in several shots, they could be a trader/industrial minor faction after all. 

Speaking of replayability, I clearly went for some modeed Civ IV over ES1, because I didn't feel the tech tree and game mechanic really were so much different between factions. (I didn't play much disharmony so maybe it wasn't the case after a while) I'll gladly put the gameplay impact of factions before their lore/visual aspect. 

I'm not arguing gameplay here, just the visual/design aspect.

And trust me, it wouldn't be hard to implement the Amoeba or Sowers into other empires, as they are more than capable of interaction with other species. Heck, the Amoeba gameplay revolved around that.

As for Sowers and Automatons, they are still individuals with their own minds.Sowers only share consciousness when in large groups to better coordinate for tasks, but they are still individuals capable of independent thought.

If some Cravers can live along side other races then pretty much everyone else can.

Again, I really hope I'm wrong and the 3 eyed guys don't become a Major Faction, because that would be a dreadful waste.