Sotek wrote:

So, according to this : 

https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/forum/65-general/thread/20537-new-gameplay-video-just-recently-lifestream-with-romain

4 of Endless Space 1 major factions are major factions in Endless Space 2.

For the moment we have : 

• Sophons,
• Cravers
• UE/Mezari

This let's us one new factions and one ES1 factions ... Harmony ? 

If they're making the Harmony into the big bad late game crisis then that leaves only the Sowers, Automatons and Amoeba as potential returning factions.

uriak wrote:

From quite afar, I don't feel the automaton and sowers distinctive enough. They could effectively be melded into a spiritual successor faction in ES2 with aspect of both.

As said above, I don't find concept like the harmony really fitting for a new political centered game. 

uriak wrote:

From quite afar, I don't feel the automaton and sowers distinctive enough. They could effectively be melded into a spiritual successor faction in ES2 with aspect of both.

As said above, I don't find concept like the harmony really fitting for a new political centered game. 

That's just you though. The only thing they have in common is the fact that they are artificial races built by organic precursor races.

I could say the same thing about all the humanoid races. They're not distinctive enough because they have two arms and two legs...

Sotek wrote:

So, according to this : 

https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/forum/65-general/thread/20537-new-gameplay-video-just-recently-lifestream-with-romain

4 of Endless Space 1 major factions are major factions in Endless Space 2.

For the moment we have : 

• Sophons,
• Cravers
• UE/Mezari

This let's us one new factions and one ES1 factions ... Harmony ? 

They said there would be a Human faction for sure, they never said it would be a returning Human faction...

To be fair the Vodyani do not really use politics either so what stops the Harmony? They have an unique gameplay style so it seems a pity to scrap it.

I think if they were an end game threat or mechanic it would be announced by now, and I can't see them as a minor fraction.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

If they're making the Harmony into the big bad late game crisis then that leaves only the Horatio, Horatio and Horatio as potential returning factions.

You made a few errors, but don't worry, I fixed it.

Even if there wasn't any confirmation at all there'd be no way they'd not have a human major faction.

Could be the UE/Mezari hybrid and a Vaulters/Pilgrims hybrid.

lordoflinks wrote:

To be fair the Vodyani do not really use politics either so what stops the Harmony? They have an unique gameplay style so it seems a pity to scrap it.

I think if they were an end game threat or mechanic it would be announced by now, and I can't see them as a minor fraction.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Religious structures often resemble highly political ones, and historically theocracies involve heavy amounts of politics. In fact, the heretical schism in the Vodyani OP kind of reminded me of, minus demons/summoned beings, of the schism between Roman Catholicism and the sects of the Reformation (commonly seperated into Reformists, and Protestants). We have a solid, powerful church that has a monopoly on religion, and a demand that all who live under it obey its laws and strictures, including kings needing their support on marriages/heirs/etc..., that has a vast underclass largely separated from that religion (peasants, and even the merchant class, who lumped together were largely illiterate, and if not illiterate, unable to read Latin, the language the church demanded be used for religious services, and for the recording of many religious texts). In the Vodyani's condition, the native populations of worlds they colonize, whether minor faction or not, resemble that vast underclass. Then it's all politics, all the way, maybe not official in any kind of Senate, but 'priests' of the RC church (and really many churches) have historically traded political favours, worship favours, doing work for their superiors, etc... to rise up in rank, and gain more temporal power. 

Since the Vodyani aren't actually believers in some afterlife, but rather in ultimately becoming pure dust/energy/data beings, temporal power could legitimately be seen as even more important since it could affect their station in their eventual endless existence. Under these conditions I have to assume there's a lot of politicking at work among the Vodyani, and I feel the fact each Vodyani hero is a different political party supports that assumption. Going against the party line of 'we have to expand, convert, find worthwhile people to turn into us, and eventually have the technological might to become Endless ourselves' is probably a huge no-no, but exactly how to do that could be something that is debated, and fought over on political battlefields. In fact, if they aren't allowed to think for themselves to that degree, I'd argue they're a really weak faction, because without a form of competition of ideas, they'll fall quickly to unexpected or particularly stubborn problems that one method can't resolve.

UnderDarkLord wrote:

lordoflinks wrote:

To be fair the Vodyani do not really use politics either so what stops the Harmony? They have an unique gameplay style so it seems a pity to scrap it.

I think if they were an end game threat or mechanic it would be announced by now, and I can't see them as a minor fraction.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Religious structures often resemble highly political ones, and historically theocracies involve heavy amounts of politics. In fact, the heretical schism in the Vodyani OP kind of reminded me of, minus demons/summoned beings, of the schism between Roman Catholicism and the sects of the Reformation (commonly seperated into Reformists, and Protestants). We have a solid, powerful church that has a monopoly on religion, and a demand that all who live under it obey its laws and strictures, including kings needing their support on marriages/heirs/etc..., that has a vast underclass largely separated from that religion (peasants, and even the merchant class, who lumped together were largely illiterate, and if not illiterate, unable to read Latin, the language the church demanded be used for religious services, and for the recording of many religious texts). In the Vodyani's condition, the native populations of worlds they colonize, whether minor faction or not, resemble that vast underclass. Then it's all politics, all the way, maybe not official in any kind of Senate, but 'priests' of the RC church (and really many churches) have historically traded political favours, worship favours, doing work for their superiors, etc... to rise up in rank, and gain more temporal power. 

Since the Vodyani aren't actually believers in some afterlife, but rather in ultimately becoming pure dust/energy/data beings, temporal power could legitimately be seen as even more important since it could affect their station in their eventual endless existence. Under these conditions I have to assume there's a lot of politicking at work among the Vodyani, and I feel the fact each Vodyani hero is a different political party supports that assumption. Going against the party line of 'we have to expand, convert, find worthwhile people to turn into us, and eventually have the technological might to become Endless ourselves' is probably a huge no-no, but exactly how to do that could be something that is debated, and fought over on political battlefields. In fact, if they aren't allowed to think for themselves to that degree, I'd argue they're a really weak faction, because without a form of competition of ideas, they'll fall quickly to unexpected or particularly stubborn problems that one method can't resolve.

The problem I see with Vodyani politics is that for them to really exist, they'd have to have pops that are not religious ideology wise...meaning they're heretics...meaning they're gonna get dealt with.

Sinnaj63 wrote:

UnderDarkLord wrote:

lordoflinks wrote:

To be fair the Vodyani do not really use politics either so what stops the Harmony? They have an unique gameplay style so it seems a pity to scrap it.

I think if they were an end game threat or mechanic it would be announced by now, and I can't see them as a minor fraction.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Religious structures often resemble highly political ones, and historically theocracies involve heavy amounts of politics. In fact, the heretical schism in the Vodyani OP kind of reminded me of, minus demons/summoned beings, of the schism between Roman Catholicism and the sects of the Reformation (commonly seperated into Reformists, and Protestants). We have a solid, powerful church that has a monopoly on religion, and a demand that all who live under it obey its laws and strictures, including kings needing their support on marriages/heirs/etc..., that has a vast underclass largely separated from that religion (peasants, and even the merchant class, who lumped together were largely illiterate, and if not illiterate, unable to read Latin, the language the church demanded be used for religious services, and for the recording of many religious texts). In the Vodyani's condition, the native populations of worlds they colonize, whether minor faction or not, resemble that vast underclass. Then it's all politics, all the way, maybe not official in any kind of Senate, but 'priests' of the RC church (and really many churches) have historically traded political favours, worship favours, doing work for their superiors, etc... to rise up in rank, and gain more temporal power. 

Since the Vodyani aren't actually believers in some afterlife, but rather in ultimately becoming pure dust/energy/data beings, temporal power could legitimately be seen as even more important since it could affect their station in their eventual endless existence. Under these conditions I have to assume there's a lot of politicking at work among the Vodyani, and I feel the fact each Vodyani hero is a different political party supports that assumption. Going against the party line of 'we have to expand, convert, find worthwhile people to turn into us, and eventually have the technological might to become Endless ourselves' is probably a huge no-no, but exactly how to do that could be something that is debated, and fought over on political battlefields. In fact, if they aren't allowed to think for themselves to that degree, I'd argue they're a really weak faction, because without a form of competition of ideas, they'll fall quickly to unexpected or particularly stubborn problems that one method can't resolve.

The problem I see with Vodyani politics is that for them to really exist, they'd have to have pops that are not religious ideology wise...meaning they're heretics...meaning they're gonna get dealt with.

The Vodyani "tolerate" (barely) other races in their empire as slaves. Their form of government is a Federation (of what, I've got no clue, maybe all of the species assimilated into their ranks?) and they get some Industrial bonuses along with a ton of religious laws, like "Only the main species is allowed to increase in population, while the rest are China".

Well, don't they just convert minor populations into Vodyani citizens via uplifting? And they at least have theologians, so there must be some form of self-expression.

They d

ImperatorTempus42 wrote:

Well, don't they just convert minor populations into Vodyani citizens via uplifting? And they at least have theologians, so there must be some form of self-expression.

They do. They also keep slaves.

Some of them still have memories of their old lives, but simply do not care anymore as digital beings don't really have strong emotions.

Well, it's moreso the Cloth that's affecting them.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

The Vodyani "tolerate" (barely) other races in their empire as slaves. Their form of government is a Federation (of what, I've got no clue, maybe all of the species assimilated into their ranks?) and they get some Industrial bonuses along with a ton of religious laws, like "Only the main species is allowed to increase in population, while the rest are China".

Does it not make more sense for the religious government (yellow) to be a Theocracy, instead of a 'Federation'?

drewwest wrote:

UndeadPuppy wrote:

The Vodyani "tolerate" (barely) other races in their empire as slaves. Their form of government is a Federation (of what, I've got no clue, maybe all of the species assimilated into their ranks?) and they get some Industrial bonuses along with a ton of religious laws, like "Only the main species is allowed to increase in population, while the rest are China".

Does it not make more sense for the religious government (yellow) to be a Theocracy, instead of a 'Federation'?

Don't ask me, I'm not a Developer. It could just be a Theocratic Federation for all we know.

Ultimately it raises the issue of having so far only 2 factions that may play the politic game fairly. Among the remaining 4, we have to home at least 3 will do the same, unless we'd want half the factions in the game being hiveminds/slavers/fanatics and having not much as population than "resources".