Do you guys know that there is a faction specific tech that allows you to transform non horatio pops into more horatios ? 

TheTakenKing wrote:

lo_fabre wrote:

Played horatio once for about 100 turns, didn't noticed this, but only 2 gene splices.

Just curious, through Horatio quest (nor sure what option I chose) you can get a tech with an improvement that allows you to produce +4 food per Horatio. Can this mitigate the problem, or it won't be enough?

--- EDIT

Reading again this thread, seems that this high food consumption from Horatio pop stops its growth in favor of other factions pop that has less food consumption. Not experienced this, but suspect due to limited turns played.

Having in mind I'll probably experience this in future campaigns, do you think that the religious law that forbids growth of other factions pop may be useful? Or on the contrary may worsen your situation?

I don't know if that's the case. My Horatio were growing about as fast, if not faster than, other populations in my empire, even when I was experiencing something like -2.5k food/turn from Gene Hunters. And it wasn't always Horatio population that were lost when the system reached a deficit; there was one system next to an unassimilated Epistis planet that kept on getting Epistis population through migration, only for the Epistis to die first whenever the system starved.

Before experiencing mid-late game Gene Hunter food penalties, I thought that the +4 food/Horatio was the weakest building by far. I've used the other two, and they're quite good, but even with nearly every food-related technology unlocked and utilized in my systems, there's still this massive penalty overcoming food generation. It seems that Horatio might need their unique quest food bonus in order to reach the highest limits of their population - which I think is good design mechanically and aesthetically.

The Horatio have another insane strength: they are a dictatorship that starts out with the Religious ideology. So essentially, for free and for forever, they can have a +50% food bonus to their systems. I had that sweet baby going since turn 6 or something... anyways, I think that the food bonus law is the most appropriate for Horatio, given their extreme food upkeep.

Filling out the Pokedex: Sophons are +1 science (weak), Pilgrims are +2 science (strong), Vodyani - which I didn't think could be gene-spliced, but ho ho, dear readers, they can! - add +1 FIDS :O

Finally, I think that the Gene Hunter food penalty considers both the total number of Horatio in your empire and the number of populations you've gene-spliced into the Horatio. This would explain why food penalties went down across the empire whenever a Horatio from a somewhat overpopulated system died.

Is that intentional or just a bug?

TheTakenKing wrote:

I don't know if that's the case. My Horatio were growing about as fast, if not faster than, other populations in my empire, even when I was experiencing something like -2.5k food/turn from Gene Hunters. And it wasn't always Horatio population that were lost when the system reached a deficit; there was one system next to an unassimilated Epistis planet that kept on getting Epistis population through migration, only for the Epistis to die first whenever the system starved.

Oh. So the first to dies is not the most food consuming pop. didn't expected this, but good to know before getting more into this update.

Before experiencing mid-late game Gene Hunter food penalties, I thought that the +4 food/Horatio was the weakest building by far. I've used the other two, and they're quite good, but even with nearly every food-related technology unlocked and utilized in my systems, there's still this massive penalty overcoming food generation. It seems that Horatio might need their unique quest food bonus in order to reach the highest limits of their population - which I think is good design mechanically and aesthetically.

Not sure if a good design. As I see you should be able to compete using any of the 3 choices offered in faction quests. Being this way will limit Horatio to ecologist way in its first choice. That's the reason I asked this.

The Horatio have another insane strength: they are a dictatorship that starts out with the Religious ideology. So essentially, for free and for forever, they can have a +50% food bonus to their systems. I had that sweet baby going since turn 6 or something... anyways, I think that the food bonus law is the most appropriate for Horatio, given their extreme food upkeep.

did the same from start, giving laws cost 0 influence. Worked good for quick early growth, but as I said didn't played more than 100 turns, so it's difficult for me to say if this is reliable on long term strategies.

Filling out the Pokedex: Sophons are +1 science (weak), Pilgrims are +2 science (strong), Vodyani - which I didn't think could be gene-spliced, but ho ho, dear readers, they can! - add +1 FIDS :O

Awesome!

Let me add an idea here: Horatio should get better benefits from splicing major factions, but with higher pop requirements. This will motivate Horatio to get more pop from majors into their empire (one or other way...). Still not sure about that, but IMO this will make you look for other pop and splice them ASAP, making game more competitive.

Finally, I think that the Gene Hunter food penalty considers both the total number of Horatio in your empire and the number of populations you've gene-spliced into the Horatio. This would explain why food penalties went down across the empire whenever a Horatio from a somewhat overpopulated system died.

Didn't noticed this.

Thanks for all this good info.

Leareu wrote:

I have been trying to migrate my Epistis which is literally one system away but I don't see the option to use the spaceport there yet. 

You need to get to level 3 on the economics quadrant

After that you can go to the market tab and customize the 3 upgrades you can get for your systems. Once you get the 1st level built in a system, the spaceport appears in the system view where you can move population around.

satoru wrote:

Leareu wrote:

I have been trying to migrate my Epistis which is literally one system away but I don't see the option to use the spaceport there yet. 

You need to get to level 3 on the economics quadrant

After that you can go to the market tab and customize the 3 upgrades you can get for your systems. Once you get the 1st level built in a system, the spaceport appears in the system view where you can move population around.

I have a question about that. What happens to population units that you migrate from one system to another if both of them have growth fast enough to replace them in 1 turn?

Where do those population units go if there is no more room for them in either system?

Must admit I was nicely surprised while trying them, bith by their splicing system and the main quest. They are not my best pal faction but the twist was welcome. The food system specifically since food is the fidsi I'm the less comforatable with (I feel cramped systems happen so soon, investing in it is not my priority anyway) 

Hi Leareu, SirBagel & SlendusTea,

The Gene hunter food consumption definitely shouldn't be that high.

I'm going over the math, but if you guys can send me saves of your games, it'd be tremendous help to crack down on the problem :)

Thanks!

Kynrael wrote:

Hi Leareu, SirBagel & SlendusTea,

The Gene hunter food consumption definitely shouldn't be that high.

I'm going over the math, but if you guys can send me saves of your games, it'd be tremendous help to crack down on the problem :)

Thanks!

Sure, I love playing Horatio anyways. 

But I don't know where to find the files of my saves, so could you tell me where to search?

Leareu wrote:

Kynrael wrote:

Hi Leareu, SirBagel & SlendusTea,

The Gene hunter food consumption definitely shouldn't be that high.

I'm going over the math, but if you guys can send me saves of your games, it'd be tremendous help to crack down on the problem :)

Thanks!

Sure, I love playing Horatio anyways. 

But I don't know where to find the files of my saves, so could you tell me where to search?

Sure! Go to your Documents folder, then Endless Space 2\Save Files.

I spliced only twice and the consumption is way to high in my opinion.

Here is a save:
AutoSave 1257.zip

samsonazs wrote:

I spliced only twice and the consumption is way to high in my opinion.

Here is a save:
AutoSave 1257.zip

Hey Samsonazs,

Thanks for your save game! It helped me find where the problem was coming from, and it should be fixed in Update 2.

Cheers,

solrac137 wrote:

I hope something is done about horatio ships they are crap right now, sure good looking crap but crap regardless it takes more to build them and they are worse than everybody elses. :(

The vodyani can build a fleet twice the size and far better in the same amount of time and now with the 3x penalty in approval you have to deal with rebellions everywhere horatio has been messed up by the patch and are the weakest faction by far. 

Not every faction is supposed to have amazing fleet power. And while I do agree that the Horatio are a bit underwhelming  at the moment, hey do have a few bugs to work out first.

Besides, there is no point in focusing on faction balance just yet, seeing how the game still lacks factions and gameplay features.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

solrac137 wrote:

I hope something is done about horatio ships they are crap right now, sure good looking crap but crap regardless it takes more to build them and they are worse than everybody elses. :(

The vodyani can build a fleet twice the size and far better in the same amount of time and now with the 3x penalty in approval you have to deal with rebellions everywhere horatio has been messed up by the patch and are the weakest faction by far. 

Not every faction is supposed to have amazing fleet power. And while I do agree that the Horatio are a bit underwhelming  at the moment, hey do have a few bugs to work out first.

Besides, there is no point in focusing on faction balance just yet, seeing how the game still lacks factions and gameplay features.

Sure you are right but keep in mind that all factions should be entretaining to play and now with the fact that their fleets are extremely weak compared to others coupled with the approval problem with dictadorships ( 11 approval at turn 20) playing them is pretty difficult, you have to get the law that forces approval in content rendering the pop bonus useless. 

Hi!

We are aware that currently initial ship costs are a bit wonky and we need to balance everything out. This includes of course the Horatio!

If you have specific criticism about what you feel the Horatio ships are missing, do tell :)

Cheers,

I'd like Horatio's ship to be able to capture other player's population :)

Kynrael wrote:

Hi!

We are aware that currently initial ship costs are a bit wonky and we need to balance everything out. This includes of course the Horatio!

If you have specific criticism about what you feel the Horatio ships are missing, do tell :)

Cheers,

Same complains as many people about Horatio. To summarize: weak hulls with few slots and a trait that makes them cost 25% high.

I had no troubles with the trait, as this is something player have to deal with (we did in ES1, Horatio was a powerful faction still) as long as this is compensated by: having hulls that at least can match the other factions and having traits that compensate the ship cost penalty  which I think we have, as with balanced pop gene splicing and mighty growth k¡like ES1 you should be able to compensate. IMO the principal issue is with the first: weaker hulls. 

Weak hulls for the Horatio does seem to be a recurrent feedback. We think that it is indeed the case for now, but we're waiting to see how it all works out with the planned modifications for the ship modules: there should be interesting synergies possible that will be less available to other factions (as the Horatio ships have a lot of flexibility on module choice) - they should be coming into their own then!

That would be basically lifting the essence-stealing from the Vodyani, so I highly doubt we'll be moving into that direction, Kweel_Nakashyn.