Aitarus, you are talking about some sort of a demonic possession. I love it! :D  I love a good horror in a sci-fi. It really fits the vibe the Lost are giving. Although I want it to fit(and it can still fit) I think there is something else going on here.

Aitarus wrote:

Not necessarily but I doubt they'd make the choice to cast the same VA for two key characters by accident. I think there's some basis for them to be the same entity, and I find it intriguing that we see the Heretic being tended to by the Sophons at the end of their vision trailer:

 I doubt that guy is the Heretic. The cloth looks different and the endless text on Sophon ipad says " ARK SHIP localization obtained" suggesting that this guy is just someone they are trying to get coordinates from. Now, I've been having fun on the side with the Endless alphabet and looked at this video as well but I thought it's probably random stuff and didn't think too much over it. But now I look at it again I am thinking this can't be just random stuff.

Now the first 2 red boxes say "Objective Protect Academy Coordinates" "Target Identification + list of Vodyani ship classes". Nothing too special. But in the green circle it says " T. O. R. location? and some planets" In Vodyani counterpart it just says target Sophon leader there so if the target was Heretic it would say there. Why is there dots between TOR and why is this written under that soon to be captured guy's face. I searched for someone that looks like the captured guy and found this Hero who has a very intriguing bio. The cloth matches perfectly. His name is Varb St Zouieina. Bio talks about a " living spirit of Zouieina" and Varb's internal turmoil about Great Penance caused by this "Virtual" living inside him. Not Endless, just Virtual...

Something really odd is going on here.

Edit: 

Tried to translate those 4 planet names as well:

Pyshman - Tchinomy

Oshkla   -  Buntud

I hope they are correct, it's easier to make out the english words. Any of them sound familiar? besides Tchinomy of course. And why should T.O.R. be at Tchinomy unless this is not the TOR we know of. I dunno maybe it's still nothing but Sophons seem to have a side mission going on interrogating this prisoner or the entity within.

hera35 wrote:

Isyander likely wouldn't be able to access the Tabernacle until his own ascension to Cloth, in which case he couldn't have orchestrated the events of DotE and EL. I think in Vodyani questline it's mentioned that Isyander goes mad and causes the rebellion only after finding the Tabernacle as well.

[...]

But I've also actually thought about the possibility that Isyander's suit might act as a host to some outside entity, likely the narrator Lost, since there's also precedence in regular Vodyani heroes who all act as hosts for Virtual Endless inside their suits and as such it wouldn't be so far-fetched for Isyander to host something inside his suit as well.

I actually hadn't realised that as I never noticed the bios at the bottom of the page until recently. That would be in line with my theory then - Isyander can exist independently of what I'll refer to as the Voice, and may yet have come into contact with it on finding the Tabernacle, as the other heroes did when acquiring their Virtual Endless spirits. 

Containing a god rather than just an immortal like the others should be more than enough to drive you to madness, then combined with the revelations of the Tabernacle itself and the will of the Voice. This would also correspond with what exactly the energy emanation from the Academy is if it's channeling the Lodestones and then releasing the Voice to join the other eight.

EDIT:

Checked the armors just in case. Isyander's Cloth looks pretty different to the Vodyani guy being examined by Sophons.

I made sure to check as well, but somehow I doubt that he had donned so overtly subversive garb until post-Tabernacle, so it's feasible that he could have had a different suit. It was its being lighter that put me onto the concept, but as Trainchaser noted it does actually match Varb - my current avatar - exactly.

Another thing regarding this attire, actually, is that he has more energy tendrils surrounding him than most the other Vodyani, like a lot more.

Those translations are intriguing, not yet sure what to make of that. It's true that these videos are packaged as 'visions' and show two unique and likely mutually exclusive version of events, so it may not have to make full sense.

The bios are very interesting, especially this excerpt from Daro St Seiotia:

Still driven to serve a god, and yet sharing her Cloth with its presence, Daro now alternates between burning with faith and aggression and fearing what ultimate sacrifice her symbiotic Saint may require of her. What is the recompense for sacrifice? What is the ultimate act of fidelity?

And in Kiev St Taiage:

For a moment Klev saw the blinding light at the start of time, the bleak void at the end, and a glimpse of the unthinkable vastness of everything that might happen in between. She saw also, and stood upon, the brink of her own insanity as her mind attempted to breach and process that scope.

These both are in line with the sort of dual-will approach I was talking about, and would allow for Isyander to remain in tact while also serving as a vessel.

I too love when sci-fi gets a bit dark. We are talking about 'Lost' gods, genocide and evolution accelerated via addictive primordial energy (Dust), so.

Addendum: why are Isyara and Isyander both named St Shaiad? That seems like a break from the convention established by the hero bios where it refers to the Virtual spirit they were touched by. And yet theirs are the same, nor is there any mention in Isyara's narration from the quest about cohabiting with a Virtual.

Slowhands wrote:

Hera35 did a good timeline summary on the previous page (better than mine, is it okay if I borrow it?). 

Thanks. I've been discussing the overarching lore elsewhere as well and mulling over it for a while so good to know I haven't been off the mark this entire time. Also in regard to using it elsewhere go ahead, I'm more than glad if it's of use to you.

I also thought at first that the A New Beginning and Vision trailers' narrator was Isyander due to sounding quite similar, but I don't think it would work. 

There's a few lines outing the narrator as a Lost.

A New Beginning:
What if I could begin again? I had reached perfect harmony, before they (the Endless) came and destroyed everything.

Vision trailers:

In following its streams, it will answer my needs. Its search for power, and its thrist for Dust will nourish our (the Lost's) return.

For the former line the narrator would've had to experience some kind of destruction by the hands of outside force, likely Endless, and for the latter it clearly refers to the Lost and not Vodyani's return, and I don't think Isyander ever refers himself as godlike, on the contrary he reveres the Lost and is willing to sacrifice himself for their return. 

Timeline wise as well it seems the Vodyani found the Virtual relics after the Grey Owl's explosion (narrator refers to the plan being in place before Vodyani are shown ascending) and Isyander likely wouldn't be able to access the Tabernacle until his own ascension to Cloth, in which case he couldn't have orchestrated the events of DotE and EL. I think in Vodyani questline it's mentioned that Isyander goes mad and causes the rebellion only after finding the Tabernacle as well.

The narrator gives the Vodyani the same narration as the Sophons, making it likely the narrator views both races as unwitting pawns. While the the Vodyani guy's armor in Sophons' Vision is also a bit light colored I think it's just supposed to be some random guy's body / alive captive being researched, like the Vodyani's Vision has Sophons plugged into some machines. But I've also actually thought about the possibility that Isyander's suit might act as a host to some outside entity, likely the narrator Lost, since there's also precedence in regular Vodyani heroes who all act as hosts for Virtual Endless inside their suits and as such it wouldn't be so far-fetched for Isyander to host something inside his suit as well.

EDIT:

Checked the armors just in case. Isyander's Cloth looks pretty different to the Vodyani guy being examined by Sophons.

Frogsquadron wrote:

I consider myself a bit of a buff on Endless lore, and I'm just floored at the level of detail doing on here.

I'm just going to keep on smiling enigmatically and pretend I'm keeping secrets. ;)

And I will pretend I am discovering secret clues about the metaplot instead of hidden french jokes :)

Aitarus wrote:

Slowhands wrote:

Somehow you guys are managing to condense six years of lore development into a two-page forum discussion. Very impressive!

Hera35 did a good timeline summary on the previous page (better than mine, is it okay if I borrow it?). Just to confirm, that is a single explosion reverberating throughout the galaxy and across dimensions.

And btw, T.O.R. is not a planet ...

!

Tabernacle of Remorse?

That must be it. It makes sense. So much for the hidden Varb metaplot :D at least we now have a better idea about the location of the tabernacle. Also good catch with Isyander that looks like some quick fix.

Sorry, I'm late to the party and rediscovering some of this stuff but back to the Dust Crystal, I noticed something in the Endless legend artbook. There is a small blue crystal in the middle of it. It is also illustrated in the Vodyani intro. And the image has more than one test tube which suggests there are more than one of these things. Could it be that Endless used Dust Crystals made from Harmony to farm dust from Lost until they both died so the Endless can power their ships? :D  In Dust to Dust quest, there is a dust-rich ancient graveyard planet with crystal bedrock and it mentions piezoelectric relation between crystal and dust. They seem to attract dust and die in the process. I bet Isyander uses one as well in his pyramid.

hera35 wrote:

But I've also actually thought about the possibility that Isyander's suit might act as a host to some outside entity, likely the narrator Lost, since there's also precedence in regular Vodyani heroes who all act as hosts for Virtual Endless inside their suits and as such it wouldn't be so far-fetched for Isyander to host something inside his suit as well.

Judging from the Vodyani comic, Isyander is less of a host in the sense that the Lost being is sharing his body with him, and more likely the Lost being is able to communicate with/through him at any time/place it pleases. This probably has to do with the fact that the Lost possess godlike powers, and that they defy most common constraints of "bodies". In a way, some Lost could act in the same way as the Virtual Endless (or think Guardians of the Galaxy MCU Ego planet) and thus can communicate without the worry of being near someone or even sharing a host body. 

This is b/c Isyander was communicating with the Lost through the cell room vents, he could hear it (not in his head but with his "ears" (?)) and then once Brunen and Eli break him out (probably unbeknownst to the assistance of the Lost) the Voice suddenly travels to his head. 

On a different note, when Isyander leads the rebellion against the Vodyani, Isyara states the Isyander "summoned ancient demons" probably her way of stating he summoned the Lost, but that doesn't make much sense according to the current lore, since Isyander has contact with the Lost for the first time, in prison, after his rebellion is defeated. So unless the Devs made a slight alteration to the lore, there's a gap between who Isyander summoned and when he first had contact with the Lost being. 

So any ideas on who the demons were, or was it a dev mistake and the beings were actually the Lost. 

Edit: The Demons do have the exact same look as the Narrator Lost (at least in the face) however, how would Isyander summon them without even having contact yet, and the Main Quest (over the Lode systems) wouldn't have occurred since he had yet to found the Academy so how would the Lost even have returned ???? 

I saw the Vodyani comic as confirmation more than anything that there is a symbiotic relationship between the narrator/voice Lost; what convinces me that they are co-habiting in Isyander's suit is that at the end of the metaplot you see him channeling the Lodestones at the Academy. There's also the fact that Isyander and the Lost seem to share near identical voice work if you compare these cinematics to the pre-release trailers. I cannot think of any more fitting place for the narrator to reside than at the Academy with his acolyte.

Regarding the 'summoning of ancient demons', I don't think they are anything other than the Lost. Isyara may be talking in retrospect since the timing of the cinematic is presumably when we start the game, long after the rebellion. She may even be referring to ancient demons in abstract rather than as actual entities - despite the visualisation in the intro - in terms of the 'inner demons' of the Virtuals who wrote the Tabernacle, which as we know clearly influenced Isyander and constituted a refutation of the faith.

Yes, I love that load scene. They were no doubt harvesting the Sophons.

That's a nice catch regarding the similarity between the Pulsos background and that second crystal photo, I wonder if they'll come to the fore in the future. Given what we know about the Harmony's adversity to Dust it must have taken something quite potent to infect them.