Slowhands wrote:

CountBlue wrote:

...

As Jeff said the canon of those events isn't exactly defined.

Thats why it's been left vague as it is. As long as nothing gets confirmed there's no ACTUAL implication of what happened.

And yes I'm fully aware that they probably won't bring any more EL factions into ES2, I merely wanted to make a point that the reason is not because they didn't survive but more because of game design constraints.

Because ultimately having you play the game and win, just for the lore to tell you all your efforts were in vain would be pretty... uncool.

And Jeff did say Amplitude prefers to not be that.

Great insights and ideas--I can see I am dealing with pros.

You guys can probably guess that handling the faction quests for EL was complicated. The planet was dying and turning into an ice ball; the end looked pretty bleak. The question was what could we do to leave the players, after tens of hours in the game, with some sort of hope for survival? After all, it's not much fun to go through all of that and then at the end of the game be told, "Nice game! But all your efforts are futile. You're dead."

So we wanted to leave some sense of hope for each of the factions, in that completing the quest might provide that sliver of a chance to make it through the Endless Winter. Each faction should have its argument that maybe, just maybe, with a lot of luck...

But as you have said, the only canonical outcome is the survival of the Vaulters (and the Sisters of Mercy). However that doesn't mean that nobody else survived, it just means that so far there are no other canonical outcomes. I think there are arguments in favor of some of the others, but we aren't looking at that right now!

-Slow

Yeah hearing scores if not hundreds of hours of Gameplay that lead to your faction dying would have been the biggest bummer and would have definitly turned players off to playing the game. 

Also I have a quick question, this concerns the surviving of other humanoid factions from Auriga; it's stated that the Vaulters are a more resilient Mezari species since they inbreeded with other humanoids on Auriga and thus have a wider genetic pool/diversity. Does this mean that some of the other factions survive through the Vaulters ? Like I know that the Ardent Mages/Roving Clans/Cultists/Human Broken Lords (the ones that were being used as cattle)/the Forgotten could have mixed with the Vaulter genetic pool but could other factions have as well ? Maybe the Wild Walkers ? If so that would make the Vaulters similar to the Horatio with the Gene-splicing affinity and would be super cool and change how the Vaulters look as a faction. 

Also thanks for responding to this thread lol 

-Suis3i 

CountBlue wrote:

As I said, my whole point is that there is nothing that ACTUALLY states what the fates of the other races were.

And being the most advanced technologically does not equal being the only ones able to do it.

The planet is still scattered with endless technology and who knows what actually happened during all that time between EL and ES2 which does seem to be quite a bit.

Also the description of Auriga states that the planet is pretty much devoid of life before you approach it so pretty much every faction would know that.

The Vaulter Storyline basically only covers the fate of the vaulters, and so they wouldn't have any particular reason or interest to either a) search for traces wheter the other races left or b) mention in the story even if they found them.

As Jeff said the canon of those events isn't exactly defined.

Thats why it's been left vague as it is. As long as nothing gets confirmed there's no ACTUAL implication of what happened.

And yes I'm fully aware that they probably won't bring any more EL factions into ES2, I merely wanted to make a point that the reason is not because they didn't survive but more because of game design constraints.

Because ultimately having you play the game and win, just for the lore to tell you all your efforts were in vain would be pretty... uncool.

And Jeff did say Amplitude prefers to not be that.

Well yeah, I saw Jeffs post, but logically thinking about it, as well as seeing how Auriga ended up in both ES1 and ES2, Amplitude doesn't need to confirm that most of the factions died off, it's quite obvious from the Vaulters quest alone. This is also a debate that has been had before by others and they come to the same conclusion, that the Vaulters were the most likely faction to survive and make it off Auriga.

Yes, much of the lore is open to the player's interpretations, no the player can't alter how the faction worked and was in order to fit their hope that a certain faction survived.
Otherwise, there would be little reason for Amplitude to create such extensive stories and faction/universe lore since players would and could just change what is written for their own desires. Furthermore, Amplitude heavily implied the end of all the factions in their Main Quests for Endless Legend, there's a reason that the Vaulters had the only realistic way of surviving an Endless Winter (by getting the hell off the planet), and although game design constraints probably did play a larger role in the reason why the Necrophages and Allayi and Cultists aren't the survivors of Auriga, you can't deny the fact that that decision was also influenced by how the story was headed and the most logical choice for a faction to survive. 

Amplitude will likely never come out and say that the factions died, it would be fucked up and I wouldn't even want to hear that from them, but looking at this realistically (from an Endless Universe point of view) it only makes sense for the Vaulters (and anyone on the Argosy and with the Foundlings) were the sole survivors 

(aside from the Eternal, and indestructible, Queen; who, mind you, has no Cult left).

Pluvinarch wrote:

Most of the factions had means of survival for the Endless winter... The lore is open ended enought so that any faction isn´t exactly doomed.

[SPOILERS]

Vaulter scaped with the Argosy

Ardent Mages virtualised themselves

Wild Walkers build a very huge tower for their protection

Broken Lords would get frozen. But you can ressurect Broken Lords heroes with Dust...

Necrophages stored their eggs everywhere

The Queen  of the Cultists is very well protected and can survive the winter

The Allayi mastered winter survival

Some Forgotten could be infiltrated on surviving Vaulters bunkers as spies

Drakken, Roving Clans and Morgawr are the factions without much explanation on how they could survive...

For most of the factions, they did have a way to initially survive the winter, however, long-term survival (for centuries) is different; 

- Vaulters left on the Argosy and whatever ship the Foundlings left on (long-term survival) 

- Ardent Mages could have virtualized themselves, but they would have had to do that within decades, if not a few years before the Endless Winter wiped out whoever didn't become virtual. (possible long-term survival for a select few) 

- The Wild Walkers had no experience, and/or technology to effectively feed a large population within a tower, and it's more likely that they starved or froze to death

-The Broken Lords may have froze, but honestly, it's impossible to know how their souls would react to the extreme cold, and what would happen to their minds if their bodies remained frozen for hundreds of years. 

-Necrophage eggs aren't immortal (at least there's no indication of it) and it seems the Endless Winter is (sadly) truly Endless since you're not allowed to terraform the planet and Auriga is unlikely to warm up, so the eggs may never hatch unless someone brings them off the planet, but even then, these new Necrophages would be wiped out by Space-Age Empires

-Queen will most likely survive, but no one knows where she last was, and she no longer has a Cult that listens to her

- Haha, I agree with the Forgotten one, it seems the Vaulter Ghosts may have been merged with the Forgotten in some way, also they could have snuck into the Vaulter cities that did survive the winter. 

-Although I really would like to see the Allayi survive, and they very well could have evolved to survive the winter, they still need food, and it doesn't seem that they had any way of growing food on the Icy surface of Auriga, nor do I think the Vaulters would have brought them into their cities (knowing how isolated both factions are)

But then again it's up to Amplitude to ever bring them back ^~^

Fingers Xed for Broken Lords....I love everything about them!

CountBlue wrote:

...

As Jeff said the canon of those events isn't exactly defined.

Thats why it's been left vague as it is. As long as nothing gets confirmed there's no ACTUAL implication of what happened.

And yes I'm fully aware that they probably won't bring any more EL factions into ES2, I merely wanted to make a point that the reason is not because they didn't survive but more because of game design constraints.

Because ultimately having you play the game and win, just for the lore to tell you all your efforts were in vain would be pretty... uncool.

And Jeff did say Amplitude prefers to not be that.

Great insights and ideas--I can see I am dealing with pros.

You guys can probably guess that handling the faction quests for EL was complicated. The planet was dying and turning into an ice ball; the end looked pretty bleak. The question was what could we do to leave the players, after tens of hours in the game, with some sort of hope for survival? After all, it's not much fun to go through all of that and then at the end of the game be told, "Nice game! But all your efforts are futile. You're dead."

So we wanted to leave some sense of hope for each of the factions, in that completing the quest might provide that sliver of a chance to make it through the Endless Winter. Each faction should have its argument that maybe, just maybe, with a lot of luck...

But as you have said, the only canonical outcome is the survival of the Vaulters (and the Sisters of Mercy). However that doesn't mean that nobody else survived, it just means that so far there are no other canonical outcomes. I think there are arguments in favor of some of the others, but we aren't looking at that right now!

-Slow

I'm writing up an account of how the Forgotten snuck into Vaulters society as we speak.

Frogsquadron wrote:

I'm writing up an account of how the Forgotten snuck into Vaulters society as we speak.

This pleases me. Like Horatio unexpectedly seeing his reflection in the mirror.

Frogsquadron wrote:

I'm writing up an account of how the Forgotten snuck into Vaulters society as we speak.

That's freaking amazing 

CountBlue wrote:

Being called a pro by the grand master of endless lore himself? Brb writing that space opera thats definitely gonna dethrone star wars.

In all seriousness though I'm just a guy who's got too much passion for the lores of the games he plays and spends too much time on tvtropes.

Also I'll admit I might sometimes get carried away by wishful thinking a bit too much because I'm a sucker for happy ends but I did try to keep it to the information that we know and frankly, as players we don't know a lot. 

In any case, I'm definitely excited for what other stuff you got in stow for us lore and gameplay wise. I know that Im gonna spend a lot of time playing this game.

Same bro, this game takes up so much of my time already, once even more of the content gets released I'm gonna have trouble keeping up with my courses 

It's always good to see people trying to pull the Cultists from EL to ES. Maybe we'll get that treat in the future since the Cultists are visibly one of the most liked factions and have quite a cult following :^)

One thing that always struck me as odd was how there seemed to be more than just, well, a cult with very convincing arguments to join them. It seemed like very literal mind control, but a very subtle and slow one. I also interpreted that as the main reason for them to only have one city. Sure, the Queen can't move around, but they seemed just crazy enough to build other cities and keep their faith going all the same. But that isn't possible if the Queen also lack the antenna to beam her mind control over region borders. Hence the need to cluster as many people as possible around her and then send them home to convince everyone they should also spend some time in the capital and buy some souvenir while they're at it.

The description of the Cultist heroes also make it seem like that's the case, but with more susceptible individuals. The mind control hit them like lightning, giving them amazing FIDSI powers or something.

Either way, hard to think that an AI, despite being crazy (or because of how crazy it is), wouldn't find a way to shoot themselves into space to continue cleansing the galaxy of Endless stuff. Talking a bit more game design here, if they make an interesting opposite to the Voldyani because of their hate of all things Endless, their gameplay could be an interesting paralel. One-system race? Maybe more nomad, but restricted to a single Ark? There's potential there, and would make a civ just as wacky as Amplitude likes them.

fdjw88 wrote:

I don't know if the Cultist can truely die. because in their intro vid, they look like a much of broker puppet surrouding the Endless Tomb. and when you look at the Cultist heors, there is no way a humna or any other faction in the game could have a neck that long. they really appear to be bunch of broken puppets that were put back together by something or someone. maybe they are just frozen with this Endless winter, and when the ice melt, they will come back! haha!

Actually, I'd say that there could be an option added into the game where if you terraform Auriga (thus changing the climate), you could free the Queen from the ice, and then she could create a new cult and maybe even create a whole new major faction (It doesn't make much sense but hey anything to bring them back ! ). The same mechanics as in Endless Legend would be great imho, ruling the galaxy with only 1 planet/ system would be incredible.

Though i don't think it'll happen sadly, but they could end up being a minor faction, which would be quite ironic...

MrRiceman wrote:

Either way, hard to think that an AI, despite being crazy (or because of how crazy it is), wouldn't find a way to shoot themselves into space to continue cleansing the galaxy of Endless stuff. Talking a bit more game design here, if they make an interesting opposite to the Voldyani because of their hate of all things Endless, their gameplay could be an interesting paralel. One-system race? Maybe more nomad, but restricted to a single Ark? There's potential there, and would make a civ just as wacky as Amplitude likes them.

The only difficulty about that, is game design wise, the Vodyani are a bit like the cult, afterall the Church controls the thoughts of individual Vodyani citizens, practically removing all concept of free thought. Only certain Vodyani, such as those in leadership positions and/or ones that have been "touched" by a Virtual Endless or Lost, have the ability to think freely. Plus, the Vodyani Quest chain gives Isyara the option of transforming the Vodyani Society and eventually turning against the Endless by blowing up their planets lmaoo. 

However, the Eternal Queen as some sort of unlockable hero for anyone who settles on Auriga, maybe after receiving an Auriga specific quest (?) would be dope. 

Since she clearly is extremely powerful and intelligent, and like you said, possibly an AI. 

It could even give her a unique tech tree that's more focused on creating a super powerful singular system (that she governs) due to the One-City in Endless Legend. 

CraverGourmetChef wrote:

fdjw88 wrote:

I don't know if the Cultist can truely die. because in their intro vid, they look like a much of broker puppet surrouding the Endless Tomb. and when you look at the Cultist heors, there is no way a humna or any other faction in the game could have a neck that long. they really appear to be bunch of broken puppets that were put back together by something or someone. maybe they are just frozen with this Endless winter, and when the ice melt, they will come back! haha!

Actually, I'd say that there could be an option added into the game where if you terraform Auriga (thus changing the climate), you could free the Queen from the ice, and then she could create a new cult and maybe even create a whole new major faction (It doesn't make much sense but hey anything to bring them back ! ). The same mechanics as in Endless Legend would be great imho, ruling the galaxy with only 1 planet/ system would be incredible.

Though i don't think it'll happen sadly, but they could end up being a minor faction, which would be quite ironic...

this is a great idea, during the terraforming process, you actually revived some factions! haha 

But yeah since we kinda strayed off topic (whoops) the Vaulter ships are some of the best designs that Amplitude has released 

(Tho, I'm a bit bummed that the Argosy is a Cruiser class ship and not a Carrier) 

what!? no!! my favorite race...the cultist, they died out!!?? god damn it that is sad. where did the game say they died? i play cultist many times in Endless Legend and i always finished the faction quest, it never mentioned they died out during the Endless Winter. 

how about the other races? like the Rovering Clan, Broken Lords and Necrophages and etc. ? 

Dreadnaught looks like the shield helicarrier!

Refuel wrote:

Dreadnaught looks like the shield helicarrier!

ikr, that's why it looks awesome.

No way cultists died, they're probably just buried under all that ice, waiting for a chance to break free

The design gives an impression of something strong/firm but they are my least favorite ships. Could have used something more special.

A little off the discussion.

I think the prologue and other unique art for the Vaulters are the best in all Endless series. Especially faction selection Zolya art is absolutely beautiful. Although the lipsync for her few lines is kinda off. I hope they fix this. I saw once now I can't just unsee it.

About Cultist I don't think they would bring as a major faction but as a minor faction, I can see it.

fdjw88 wrote:

what!? no!! my favorite race...the cultist, they died out!!?? god damn it that is sad. where did the game say they died? i play cultist many times in Endless Legend and i always finished the faction quest, it never mentioned they died out during the Endless Winter. 

how about the other races? like the Rovering Clan, Broken Lords and Necrophages and etc. ? 

[LORE SPOILERS] 

When you play Endless Space 1 and Endless Space 2 you find Auriga, once a Temperate/Fertile Planet as an Icy tomb. This implies that nothing was able to survive/adapt to the Endless Winter that eventually overtook the planet. 

Furthermore, the Vaulters  (and the Sisters of Mercy) seem to be the only ones who were able to successfully travel off the planet since they had the Argosy. You could say anyone faction made it off on the Grey Owl in the competitive-end game quest, however, that was blown up by the Lost narrator in the Endless Space 2 trailer. 

Furthermore, the only two factions that had technology to survive the Endless winter would have been Allayi (due to their natural affinity with Auriga) however, this is unlikely as they are never mentioned after Endless Legend and since Auriga died, it's implied that they died with it, and then the Vaulters, who survived the Endless winter in their underground Vaults and cities and eventually reverse-engineered Endless technology to make their way off of the planet. 

There were Craver habitats on Auriga, and so technically the Cravers did survive (since there were more in the galaxy) but those on Auriga probably died off. 

The Necrophages did plant eggs to survive the Endless winter, however, it is unknown if those eggs survived. 

None of the other races had the technology or ability to survive the winter, nor are they mentioned in any of the other games (except for a Broken Lords Hero in Endless Space 1). 

Also the Allayi Main Quest states that the pearls are in fact, the "last drop of Auriga's blood".

And since Auriga is a Lost, and she's dying, almost everything on the planet not used to extremely cold temperatures and living underground would die. 

Just bought the Vaulter DLC, it is currently on sale on Steam for only 9.89 USD. I have to say the Vaulter ships look abs stunning, the best looking ships so far in the game, especially their dreadnaught. Althought I didn't spend too much time playing Endless Space 1, but I do know the Vaulters from Endless Legend, and know that they come from space. Can't wait to play them!

Also, I'm wondering if Cultist will ever enter the space race as well. since in their intro vid, they stated that they were created by the Endless, and conquerign the Universer is their destiny. Man, it will be cool if the Cultist will be added in the future, they were my favorite faction in Endless Legend. 

You could argue that actually. Reverse engineering Endless technology is the deus ex machina that could work for every race on Auriga. 

Theres also the possibility that the explosion of the grey owl ripped a few more holes in the time space continuum where others escaped.

Maybe theres still Necrophages eggs somewhere under the crust of auriga?

etc. The list could go on.

It's purely down to what kind of narrative you wanna spin.

The fact that the other factions are never mentioned does not confirm that they all died with their planet but serves exactly the purpose of leaving it open.

I don't know if the Cultist can truely die. because in their intro vid, they look like a much of broker puppet surrouding the Endless Tomb. and when you look at the Cultist heors, there is no way a humna or any other faction in the game could have a neck that long. they really appear to be bunch of broken puppets that were put back together by something or someone. maybe they are just frozen with this Endless winter, and when the ice melt, they will come back! haha!

fdjw88 wrote:

I don't know if the Cultist can truely die. because in their intro vid, they look like a much of broker puppet surrouding the Endless Tomb. and when you look at the Cultist heors, there is no way a humna or any other faction in the game could have a neck that long. they really appear to be bunch of broken puppets that were put back together by something or someone. maybe they are just frozen with this Endless winter, and when the ice melt, they will come back! haha!

The only cultists who are not sentient beings found in a race on Auriga (think Drakken, Humans, Gauran, Allayi, Morgwar, etc) are the Eternal Queen and the Unspoken. The others are actually humans in suits of armor. The "neck" is actually where the head would have been in the suit of armor, it's just a really large helmet, you can tell when the Cultists Archers fire or even in the quest art that depicts the Cultists, they look with their "neck" and not with the giant headpiece. Other than that their bodies are pretty proportionate to taller humans, their armor is just designed in a way that gives them "alien" Esq looks. 

This also has to do with how the Cultists were formed. They were simply (human) believers in the Eternal Queen since it was a remanent of the Endless experiments on Auriga, and practically indestructible by any physical means (at least in the Medieval Age the Cultists were in). 

The puppets are just the suits of armor that reflect how the Queens Sarcophagus/Coffin looked, since they were fanatic believers in it. 

Also how they recruit more followers to the Cultist belief and recruit soldiers is shown in the main quest, since they aren't a unique race, but rather humans and humanoids who believe in one faith. They are also seen to enslave larger sentient beings such as Gauran and Rumblers. 

Hence the Narrator of the Cultists Main Quest donning the mask of one of the Soldiers since he passed the trials (although few of the soldiers really wear their masks directly on their face). 

This isn't to say that the Eternal Queen didn't die, more than likely she survived, as she has survived millennia before the creation of the cult, and clearly cannot, nor does not need to consume food/water. 

It's likely she's a form of Robot or AI construct, which is why she has survived since the Endless and hates them so much. 

(So the cultists could appear in a different form, as may be the Queen creates a new cult if she is ever found)

CountBlue wrote:

You could argue that actually. Reverse engineering Endless technology is the deus ex machina that could work for every race on Auriga. 

Theres also the possibility that the explosion of the grey owl ripped a few more holes in the time space continuum where others escaped.

Maybe theres still Necrophages eggs somewhere under the crust of auriga?

etc. The list could go on.

It's purely down to what kind of narrative you wanna spin.

The fact that the other factions are never mentioned does not confirm that they all died with their planet but serves exactly the purpose of leaving it open . 

As much as I'd like to spin the narrative past what has been written and heavily implied in the Endless Legend -> Endless Space 2 multiverse, no other faction was as technologically adept as the Vaulters (it's even said in the ES2 quest that they were the scientific giants of Auriga), and since the Vaulters were the only faction in the game with prior experience and knowledge of space-age technology, it's likely they were the only ones who had made it off Auriga in large enough numbers to still consider them a faction. Furthermore, when you discover the Foundlings (the second wave of Vaulters that survived and left Auriga), the quest only indicates that the Vaulters had survived, even after you search Auriga high and low for any signs of life. 

And yes there is the possibility that the Grey Owl ripped holes into different dimensions and somehow the other species on the ship made it into these other Dimensions, however, they would then never make an appearance in Endless Space 2, b/c I doubt Amplitude is going to reuse the Riftborn concept a second time, after all the factions they come up with all have unique and different backgrounds. 

I already highlighted the possibility of Necrophage eggs being planted, but there would be no reason to bring them back, as at that point the now Space-Age Vaulters would annihilate their old foe, and there already is a consumption based species. 

The Roving Clans, Ardent Mages, Wild Walkers, and the Morgwar would all die due to their inability to adapt to such a cold climate, while the Broken Lords would either go into some sort of stasis, but most likely die off due to the lack of souls they can drain, and the fact that Ice-class planets are nearly drained of dust. The Allayi may have survived but there is no indicator or reason for them to be kept in the current story as they are directly tied to Auriga and only Auriga (though Allayi ships would be dope asf). The Drakken (one of my favorites) may have survived in small, small numbers since some could adapt to the cold climate, but not enough in any significant way and food would be a problem. The Forgotten could have made it off by sneaking onto/into the Argosy or the Vaulter underground cities and some of the Vaulter Ghosts are similar to them in many ways but otherwise, they had no way of surviving the Endless Winter. 

Jeff Spock did say that much of the Endless Lore is up for debate, as each person's game represents one of the thousands of different multiverses, but I just listed things that were already stated, or are so heavily implied that there is little to no reason that the DEVs would change the implied storyline so far.  

Most of the factions had means of survival for the Endless winter... The lore is open ended enought so that any faction isn´t exactly doomed.

[SPOILERS]

Vaulter scaped with the Argosy

Ardent Mages virtualised themselves

Wild Walkers build a very huge tower for their protection

Broken Lords would get frozen. But you can ressurect Broken Lords heroes with Dust...

Necrophages stored their eggs everywhere

The Queen  of the Cultists is very well protected and can survive the winter

The Allayi mastered winter survival

Some Forgotten could be infiltrated on surviving Vaulters bunkers as spies

Drakken, Roving Clans and Morgawr are the factions without much explanation on how they could survive...

fdjw88 wrote:

what!? no!! my favorite race...the cultist, they died out!!?? god damn it that is sad. where did the game say they died? i play cultist many times in Endless Legend and i always finished the faction quest, it never mentioned they died out during the Endless Winter. 

how about the other races? like the Rovering Clan, Broken Lords and Necrophages and etc. ? 

All dead. RIP. Sorry friend. :(