ENDLESS™ Space 2 is turn-based 4X space-strategy that launches players into the space colonization age of different civilizations within the ENDLESS™ Universe. Your Vision. Their Future.
I feel their power is heavily based on with what system you can find at the start. I'm sure on smaller galaxy sizes, the turns spent looking for a good system will harm them as you go up in difficulty. I tried them out on a 10 player sized Spiral-6 on Serious and found a five planet system with great anomalies, both starting strategics and Redsang within a few turns. I'm only 120 turns in, but the game has been a breeze from there. I feel the ability to get an amazing home system is just as important as their portals, but that's all down to luck.
I'd have to play a few more games to really give a verdict. Other posts have highlighted weaknesses they have that I haven't come across yet. They're very fun though; the Argosy is probably one of my favourite faction abilities, next to gene splicing.
I would not call them OP. The portals are a nice feature for sure, but the upkeep can drain the economy rather fast if we don't have a good supply of dust. Personally what i really do like is the versatility of their ship's slots; lots of support modules so we can make some crazy design. I really like their scouts, lots of probes :). Didn't find much use for the privateers, the AI love to make truces with the pirates so by extension we can't attack factions in NAP with them.
I found the privateers option to be really useful for engaging in assorted dickery with AI civs. Like, turning any planet they settle near your borders into your hunting ground. Or, load them up with boarding pods and send them out to get you a fleet. In my first game in the leaked DLC, I managed to assemble an entire Craver fleet of hunters and coordinators from the captured spoils of war. Then, I parked that very fleet (disguised as privateers) over his home system for 10 turns, then took it and turned it into hunting grounds. All without ever declaring war :)
I found the privateers option to be really useful for engaging in assorted dickery with AI civs. Like, turning any planet they settle near your borders into your hunting ground. Or, load them up with boarding pods and send them out to get you a fleet. In my first game in the leaked DLC, I managed to assemble an entire Craver fleet of hunters and coordinators from the captured spoils of war. Then, I parked that very fleet (disguised as privateers) over his home system for 10 turns, then took it and turned it into hunting grounds. All without ever declaring war :)
I guess that is the way to do it. Also, blocading a system with an outpost get rid of that outpost in one turn (no supply, they die out), doing it with privateers might be a good way to hold back the competion without the diplomatic consequenses...
I found the privateers option to be really useful for engaging in assorted dickery with AI civs. Like, turning any planet they settle near your borders into your hunting ground. Or, load them up with boarding pods and send them out to get you a fleet. In my first game in the leaked DLC, I managed to assemble an entire Craver fleet of hunters and coordinators from the captured spoils of war. Then, I parked that very fleet (disguised as privateers) over his home system for 10 turns, then took it and turned it into hunting grounds. All without ever declaring war :)
I guess that is the way to do it. Also, blocading a system with an outpost get rid of that outpost in one turn (no supply, they die out), doing it with privateers might be a good way to hold back the competion without the diplomatic consequenses...
Hell, if you really want to keep your opponent from expanding, you can park a fleet in their territory, and every time they build a colony ship, you can chase it down and kill it (you have 2 utility slots on even the basic attackers and protectors, which can give you speed 10 with hyperium engines). Unfortunately, the Unfallen AI almost always seems to sign a non-aggression pact with the pirates, so you won't be able to kill vineships that way, but the Vodyani AI usually doesn't. Of course, the Vodyani AI is so weak anyway, that crippling it even more just seems cruel....
I played them several days ago and I realized they are a bit overpowered, but maybe I was just lucky with good systems around me. Okay. But yesterday I played a multiplayer game as Voulters. There were 6 players and 2 of them were Vaulters. We (Vaulters) had no problems with points income and left other players far away.
I think the colonization is too easy, cheap and fast and gates are availale too early or should be limited by any way.
What galaxy generation settings did you use?
You mean type? I went with random and I got an eight spiral. The teleportation ability with minor factions meant I was not as constricted for expansion.
I'm just an enthusiastic casual who never plays multiplayer (I like 4x games but it's the setting that got me) but I think the Vaulters' Portals and their colony ship need some fine tuning.
I think the Portal Industry cost could increase the more you have. The first few are relatively cheap but after the 5th-6th it starts steadily ramping up. Though I'm not sure how much sense getting Portals at Pirate lairs when you're chummies with them makes.
I'm not sure how to fix the expansion rate. I'm used to being the underdog in the early game then rising to the top in the midgame. Imagine my surprise when I was on top of the scoreboard in the very first few turns, despite having unconnected systems spread out in a constellation with a pirate base in the middle and that pretty much everything was just barely working. Though I must admit, it's been a few patches since I last played, and I felt and noticed that a lot of the math in the game has been tweaked, in a good way.
Otherwise they're fine. Sure, there's a bit of a gamble in the early game (how quickly can you get the first 2, mainly) but not nearly as much as with the Vodyani.
Imo, the Vaulters is a balanced faction to play with. Slow colonization early, not-that-amazing traits and slow population growth are fair setbacks for a good defense network/science output. The ship models are fine.
It's a plauseble strategy to assimilate minor factions to expand in the early game. And their systems do count as core-systems, so extra approval!
The only weird thing is that i always find some nice unique planets (Tor, Teonha or Bilgeli) on a awkwardly high frequency. Everything else is OK.
I still think Sophons are better overall cause you don't have some weird mechanic to use their full strength (such as :gather essence, deplete-management, vine-growth, etc). Just tech up all the way to science victory and think about how to survive, waiting the (boring) victory screen.
I think it's too early to call OP. My impressions are that they are powerful early game and late game. I had a dip throughout the midgame because I couldn't colonize as fast as the other factions. I find you have to colonise wisely, build up some strong defensive fleets and try not to get too greedy. The portals make them an effective defender and taller empire. On my first game, I think they're balanced pretty well.
Also, getting trade routes sorted can be tough with the Vaulters. I had to set up some alliances and carve a path through mid galaxy to get any decent ones. I know they're nowhere near as imba as they were at launch, but good trade routes are still pretty important.
You'd have to run more test games as the Vaulters before coming to that assumption lol
This is b/c Endless Space 2 is designed so each experience can have vastly different circumstances
So far the best answer in this thread.
Kingu wrote:
I feel their power is heavily based on with what system you can find at the start. I'm sure on smaller galaxy sizes, the turns spent looking for a good system will harm them as you go up in difficulty. I tried them out on a 10 player sized Spiral-6 on Serious and found a five planet system with great anomalies, both starting strategics and Redsang within a few turns. I'm only 120 turns in, but the game has been a breeze from there. I feel the ability to get an amazing home system is just as important as their portals, but that's all down to luck.
I'd have to play a few more games to really give a verdict. Other posts have highlighted weaknesses they have that I haven't come across yet. They're very fun though; the Argosy is probably one of my favourite faction abilities, next to gene splicing.
Still on my first game. Everything is pretty much set on normal when it comes to Galaxy Generation. In this game I have to manage a lot of bad systems. Mainly, I've taken 3 planet systems (got one 5) and even a 2 planet system because of Strategics and Luxury Ressources. Gameplay-wise it feels as if these Systems are stepping stones to discover the Galaxy further. It feels interesting to play and is challenging.
A couple of really good Systems and I probably wouldn't feel this way. The entire feeling would be different and it's likely that I'd feel like some in this thread who find Vaulters to be OP:
Been playing (mostly multiplayer) with them since the accidental release and this is my sorta feedback/review/guide for The Vaulters DLC.
Endless Specialization
I would say The Vaulters are heavily depended on the exploration, specialization(systems and ships), population growth and luck. They have legit potential go for a tall empire. Because they are very depended on choosing a good system to colonize your first actions are to scout non-stop. Therefore you need a lot of scouting ships and that's where the specialization starts. Their exploration ship has 4 support modules you can use. That means before turn 5 you get to have your first ship with 16 movement points! Of course without any probes but that's not a problem when you create 2 different science ship types. One for exploration and the other identifying these curiosities.
The ship specialization doesn't spot there. Because you have portals in your systems you can also have 2 different military ship types. One for defensive purposes (without any movement supply modules) and the other would be regular with movement. Why would you waste at least 2 supply modules to reach the far spaces, where you can teleport them in one turn. This even increases the defensive capabilities of the Vaulters beside teleportation.
Because of the high number of support modules in their ships you have to make different kinds of ships rather than usual 2 types of ships. You can have this massive invasion ship or go for an extra repair & reload modules and make better "commander" ships which gives more benefits to all the fleet. Be mindful though all of their ships have less weapon module.
You can have this strange empire where you take a hot star system to produce great ships and send them to the far galaxy in one turn. You can dedicate one of your system for the population to grow and teleport the civilians to other unpopulated systems to make them efficient much faster. Early exploration is the key.
You see the faction is very thought-provoking. It is a good faction but making you earn your keep. If you don't think about your actions a lot, you are going to fall behind; the diplomacy is not on your side due to having multiple neighbors and they will be pissed about you come and steal their one of good systems. Another bad thing about the Vaulters is the starting populations. Even though they are good at land combat they only give +1 Science and +2 happiness. This way they get to be balanced. They still get to do their thing (with the help of +2happinies) but in the long run, If they haven't made good decisions they are done. Therefore I don't think they are OP.
Influence Inflation
Interacting with pirates are better now but they need heavy work to make pirates good. Only one faction for pirates is kinda lackluster. The interaction with them is not that satisfying too. I'm beginning to suspect devs are trying to make players spend their influence points so much (since the galactic statecraft update) these high influence costs are going to create unbalances in the long run. Sabotaging or supporting doesn't feel right; If you spent influence to get non-aggression with them you are set or spent thousands of dust?! It's not that great mini-game to me. Maybe we could trade military technology and their ships will have those modules or they could plan a bigger heist to really hurt the planets, giving them penalties. Things like that would give pirates more sense of natural growth, rather than biased turn time.
Overall I liked the DLC due to the vaulter's faction. The new interactions with pirates is a good call but the execution needs to be revisited.
This time, it was totally hard. When Titanium & Hyperium are scarce, they are seriously hard to play.
At late game 2 of my systems almost got absorbed by Lumeris, I need to be constantly at war with them.
What can help is getting a couple of Vaulter heroes. One of the early skills for the Vaulter affinity on heroes is free titanium/hyperium generation, meaning you can get a steady supply of it even if you find none.
HUMANS UE strong sides: 1. buy out stuff for influence (but prices is so high so its not actual from early stage) 2. 1+ influence per pop 3. 1+ max colony 4. from 1000 spend productions UE give 100 influence 5. Minors give manpower 20+
Humans VAULTERS strong sides: 1. SOme buildings/ modules gives strategic resources from nothing 2. all heros give strategic resources from nothing 3. Charge lvl systems for strategic with much biggest flat bonuses, also able to rush system lvls, when other races can do the same only after 40+ turns (on fast) 4. Extremely fast sprey colonyz (if play on fast speed new colony every 3-4 turns) 5. pops give 2 bonuses = science bonus and dmg bonus 6. minors give happiness bonus and dmg bonus 7. cheep portals everywhere unstapoble maneuvering over the galaxy 8. albe to get free portals from pirates lair 9. able to reach science victory after 65 turns on fast speed if charge hyperium in system lvl up 10. best political ways in the game for war, science + militarists (both final laws give dmg for ships and even more dmg for troops wtf???) 11. best recon ship in the game able to use 3 probs 12. Golden age mechanic 13. Colony ship product for free on background/ also fastest in tha game 14. boost relations with minor lasts for 10 turns (not 5 like other races) 15. able to turn fleet into privaters (4 LVL TECH for others) 16. +1 max colony for sure :)
So what whe got here? Race without troubles with happiness, strategic, production, science, dust income, insane potencial with portals and strong battleground troops. They are pretty like sophons on steroids but with dusts and production as bonus. They looks more balanced on normal speed, but still too strong for science race.
HUMANS UE strong sides: 1. buy out stuff for influence (but prices is so high so its not actual from early stage) 2. 1+ influence per pop 3. 1+ max colony 4. from 1000 spend productions UE give 100 influence 5. Minors give manpower 20+
Humans VAULTERS strong sides: 1. SOme buildings/ modules gives strategic resources from nothing 2. all heros give strategic resources from nothing 3. Charge lvl systems for strategic with much biggest flat bonuses, also able to rush system lvls, when other races can do the same only after 40+ turns (on fast) 4. Extremely fast sprey colonyz (if play on fast speed new colony every 3-4 turns) 5. pops give 2 bonuses = science bonus and dmg bonus 6. minors give happiness bonus and dmg bonus 7. cheep portals everywhere unstapoble maneuvering over the galaxy 8. albe to get free portals from pirates lair 9. able to reach science victory after 65 turns on fast speed if charge hyperium in system lvl up 10. best political ways in the game for war, science + militarists (both final laws give dmg for ships and even more dmg for troops wtf???) 11. best recon ship in the game able to use 3 probs 12. Golden age mechanic 13. Colony ship product for free on background/ also fastest in tha game 14. boost relations with minor lasts for 10 turns (not 5 like other races) 15. able to turn fleet into privaters (4 LVL TECH for others) 16. +1 max colony for sure :)
So what whe got here? Race without troubles with happiness, strategic, production, science, dust income, insane potencial with portals and strong battleground troops. They are pretty like sophons on steroids but with dusts and production as bonus. They looks more balanced on normal speed, but still too strong for science race.
P.s. Yes they may be a little too overpowered.
Your list is unbalanced :D
Seems streamlined to carry your conclusion rather than really conlcuding out of the giving facts. Its true that the faction bonus spreads over a more vastly field of features than other factions, but most are features with less impact than the singular bonuses of the old factions imo. The strongest feature are the portals. They come as powerfull as as the ability to buy everything with influence. This is balanced imo by their slow expansion rate compared to other factions. I dont know your games, but my endless AI and my fellow multiplayer partners spread like crazy. You cant tell me you can outspread a riftborn spamming colony ships with your argosy. You won't have the ressources even with an OP 5 system with unique planet like veil. A single outposts hinders you to setup a colony. There is no race of outposts for Vaulters which is a huge disadvantage. There comes the minor feature of early privateers to have a chance countering this and at leats enable you to get a decent start. The golden age mechanic decreases over time. Its expensive to keep up a faster expansion rate and costs you advantages in other sectors. With your UE comparison you left out that they are highly adaptive. Becoming either a military, industrial or science powerhouse. The quests rewards for the Vaulters are rather mediocre, to balance their base traits i guess. They have slow populationgrowth which needs to be adressed midgame, while they have it easier to manage population types due to the portaltech. At least the horatio exploration vessels competes for best exploration ship as it can carry the same amount of probes. Nearly everey factions have unique ways with the minor factions, either brainwashing them to keep them safe from assimilation from others or "dust" them out. Still, praising minors always last for 10 turns. In my experience, influence can be a struggle for vaulters when you havent huge luck with your starting position. But starting position luck is a general "feature" of ES 2. The strategic generation from nothing on heroes or a unique systemimprovement should enable you to generate the lowtech strategics to use your colonization feature even on bad starting locations. Riftborn get the same feature on their homeworld for free. I never use this in my games because it looses its value pretty fast.
Overall, while i was shocked too by the amount of unique features they have, i came to the conclusion that the individual features combined are comprehensible to the ones of the old factions. There is nothing i can achieve with vaulters i cannot with the others. The playstyle is different. So far i am pleased with the dlc. Although i would like some additional work on the pirates. In my first multiplayer game i was the main target for marks due to be the strongest vaulter in the constellation. They kept me busy which was splendid as it show cased the new possibilities. Bet when one system was sieged by 8 ships, i could take them down 2 by 2 because they were organized by 2 of 4 fleets. They should at least use the ability everyone get, that fleets gets combined to the actual fleet limit. People use dust on them which isnt cheap early on just to gift expirience to my hero fleet. Would be just a little change to make them a little challenge. Pirates were set to hard btw.
One thing i noticed playing the vaulters is i'm always stranded for dust (ie have to sell stuff all the time to make up for the dust drain). The portals may be cheap to build but they come with a high maintenance so it's not a good idea to build them everywhere. Also found out while playing that while the Argosy gives easy colonisation, to keep up with other factions we have to actually invade. The buff to ground combat is really helpful at that.
I played them several days ago and I realized they are a bit overpowered, but maybe I was just lucky with good systems around me. Okay. But yesterday I played a multiplayer game as Voulters. There were 6 players and 2 of them were Vaulters. We (Vaulters) had no problems with points income and left other players far away.
I think the colonization is too easy, cheap and fast and gates are availale too early or should be limited by any way.
I really agree with those points. Colonization is easy, ridiculously easy. The golden age bonuses are very strong. Teleportation is really strong as well. They have so many unique strong features that I'm wondering if the unique privateer action is not just another overpowered feature. It makes no sense for their lore, and honestly it's a completely unnecessary trait on them, I would like to see some serious balancing, unless the fan favorites are supposed to be powerful.
I mean, I like the Vaulters as much as any ES2 fan, but I think Amplitude needs to be a bit stern with them, make them of equal power to the other factions. The space vikings can't take the entire cake.
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