Just one question: Haven't you said that travelling faster than the light speed is virtually impossible, because it's the fastest speed anything in this universe can attempt to move?

If something moves beyond that speed, doens't it mean it simply excedeed "the laws of our space" and any universal law we can concebe (The universe we see is basically what we can concebe of it, as human beings) will not be applied to the vessel moving in 2 times the speed of the light because it will simply "cease to exist" for us until it exists the hyperspace?

:)

Pretty sure in battle the ships are using sublight engines, not warp engines.

But I'm not sure where you want to change the visuals ? Possibly providing the visuals you want to change would be helpful in understanding your issue (not the right word but yeah) with how the ships are moving using warp drives. 

Anyway, what is only conceivably possible in our current technological stage and at our current laws of the universe shouldn't prevent the game creators (and artists) from visualizing how something that would (realistically) take place hundreds, if not thousands of years into the future, works. That's the fun in sci-fi, you're not bound by the laws of our current reality. 

Velorace wrote:

Just one question: Haven't you said that travelling faster than the light speed is virtually impossible, because it's the fastest speed anything in this universe can attempt to move?

If something moves beyond that speed, doens't it mean it simply excedeed "the laws of our space" and any universal law we can concebe (The universe we see is basically what we can concebe of it, as human beings) will not be applied to the vessel moving in 2 times the speed of the light because it will simply "cease to exist" for us until it exists the hyperspace?

Yeah, I think I just forgot something. 

We now have such ideas about the speed of light is the fastest speed anything any objects or any matter that moving in the space. 

But the idea of warp is actually tried to avoid that question by 'warp' space itself. So it is not moving in the space so fast but space itself warp and curved, to let the ship moving faster, but that ship is not moving in the space faster than the speed of light.

So it would be this:

Actually, I had forgotten something about the space be curved would look like blueshift on its front and redshift behind it. And its shape may seem to be shorter than it would be.

But that would apply to a ship moving in the space which is close to the speed of light. When space itself became curved and warped, well...maybe not like this. And I just can't think it out right now.

So at least myself truly think this won't break the rules of the universe, as it seems to be very rational and theoretically could do that.

Suis3i wrote:

Pretty sure in battle the ships are using sublight engines, not warp engines.

But I'm not sure where you want to change the visuals ? Possibly providing the visuals you want to change would be helpful in understanding your issue (not the right word but yeah) with how the ships are moving using warp drives. 

Anyway, what is only conceivably possible in our current technological stage and at our current laws of the universe shouldn't prevent the game creators (and artists) from visualizing how something that would (realistically) take place hundreds, if not thousands of years into the future, works. That's the fun in sci-fi, you're not bound by the laws of our current reality. 

Yes, you are right, we just don't know what will it actually be in the future. But at least I think that would be more...emmm...well forget about realistic, I also think that would be more fun. :）At least some funs.

So, try to draw some visuals but I'm not good at it.

So that ship just pop up in front of us, with no sight of it before. Then it is out of warp and it stopped and begin to use its sublight engines.

After the ship's bow, a remnant of its sight before is followed. It's the ship's position and the scene of its past. That sight will leave the ship and move backwards away.

After a second it will look like this. And it will continue to move away just towards the edge of our vision. 

Or maybe like this. (I can't draw what looks like when it is in a warp bubble :/

Hope u could have some understanding.

Ohhh okay, I kinda get what you're saying. It's basically leaving afterimages of the starship, in this case, a Zelevas-class carrier. But the afterimages don't follow they remain in a certain area and/or get smaller in the background of what would be the digital image, thus giving the illusion that they're fading away. And this is supposed to give the appearance of what actual warp speed exiting/traveling appears and it's transition into sublight speed. 

I mostly understand what you're saying, and this would be something cool to add. Let's just hope one of the DEVs sees this, cuz I want to read their thoughts on this whole thing 

Suis3i wrote:

Ohhh okay, I kinda get what you're saying. It's basically leaving afterimages of the starship, in this case, a Zelevas-class carrier. But the afterimages don't follow they remain in a certain area and/or get smaller in the background of what would be the digital image, thus giving the illusion that they're fading away. And this is supposed to give the appearance of what actual warp speed exiting/traveling appears and it's transition into sublight speed. 

I mostly understand what you're saying, and this would be something cool to add. Let's just hope one of the DEVs sees this, cuz I want to read their thoughts on this whole thing 

YEAH! I think it's very fun to have those afterimages and it's very thankful because I wasn't made my words so clear. Hope some DEVs will see this :)

The devs are all running off to work on advanced degrees in particle and quantum physics. All game content on hold for the next 3 years  :)

Great one OP, look what you did :)

What really looks like when a ship using WARP DRIVE? Or perhaps all ways faster than light speed. (expect a wormhole, maybe).

So...Let's have a chart.

So this could be a ship moving at the speed of 2x the speed of light. It came from RAIA and is going to the ACADEMY.

Assuming that we have 200 light years distance between the RAIA and the ACADEMY. This warp journey will take 100 years to perform.

But what really looks like when you see that ship?

Yes, you have seen that ship warped out, but what about its return? And when it is on its journey what is it looks like?

Here are more charts.

Well, we know that the speed of light is always unchanged.

So when that ship is on its journey, the light came out from the ship will try to travel as fast as they could: the speed of light.

But it will take much longer time than the ship's actually moving.

So, if you are on the planet RAIA, you will actually see that ship return to RAIA before you see it reach the ACADEMY. The ship will return to RAIA  before even you see it turns back. 

And when it arrives at RAIA, it is just pop up in front of you without anything in sight before.

Then after the ship's bow, you will see that a beam of light, which is the sight of the ship, shoot itself to the ACADEMY, just like the ship is moving backwards or the movie is playing backwards.

Meanwhile, you will also see that a ship is completely the same ship, which is still on its way from RAIA to the ACADEMY but still not finishes its journey. 

So now you see 2 sights of a single ship and there is only one ship exist, but 2 beams of light came from that ship's past.

If  we have to do some describe, it may look like this but more:

We need to do some imagines here. Imagine that red beam from the thrusters, be changed into the afterimage of the ship, or a sight of the same ship which is just its shadow scene of past.

And that sight will just move backwards to review the ship's path.

Then, If you are in the ACADEMY, you will actually see something same:

Also looks weird when that ship arrives at. But the same from RAIA when it arrives. (When it move away, it won't be so weird but still some same way it will perform).

And some more weird questions: What will you see if you are onboard the ship?

Only the light from RAIA's past will reach your ship. And also the ACADEMY's past.

You and your crews will see the past of the universe as long as you maintain that warp speed.

So when you travel 200 light years, you will see the past 200 years before you started your journey. 

When you leave RAIA, you will see RAIA's history playing backwards, and the history of the ACADEMY is playing frontwards but 2x speed faster. (Maybe 2x? well...didn't think so clearly :/

The same you travel from ACADEMY to RAIA. It's the ACADEMY which looks like playing backwards.

So...that is what I have concerned about something look like when travelling faster than the speed of light by a warp drive. 

:/ Some way more science and realistic, but...well, absolutely I'm not a scientist so it may be something wrong within. 

More about: (Well this part is always weird and chaotic, maybe it's better to don't mind this part. And I just can't make it clear to mind, always).

As if an FTL movement equals to travelling back in time......well my personally don't agree with that and I think it's just can't do it. 

As we seem to have no route to go backwards in time. And even if we took some other observer's visions, it seems that we were not moving back in time. 

(As the slope no matter how fast we travelling, we can't perform a minus slope.

Neither we just can't move back in time because both rules of the universe and our body (or mind) forms don't allow us to do that, and they will always try to stop us from that by some weird ways. :/ 

OR......(Maybe we just can't do an FTL if that equals to we moving back in time. :(

So, back to normal, maybe we could do some visual changes to those warp things on...Let's see...maybe ENDLESS SPACE 3? :)

... I think I'm also gonna need a *few* catch-up courses in advanced mathematics ◉_◉ ...

And this:
http://www.standupeconomist.com/pdf/misc/interstellar.pdf

"How should interest rates on goods in transit be computed when the goods travel at close to the speed of light? This is a problem because the time taken in transit will appear less to an observer traveling with the goods than to a stationary observer."

It's not just the ships!

Slowhands wrote:

And this:
http://www.standupeconomist.com/pdf/misc/interstellar.pdf

"How should interest rates on goods in transit be computed when the goods travel at close to the speed of light? This is a problem because the time taken in transit will appear less to an observer traveling with the goods than to a stationary observer."

It's not just the ships!

Oh, that's a lot about economics. Emmm...

So it's somehow depended on how fast will we make our journey, I think if we are fast enough we just could hold that same interial frame? so we will use the:

Second Fundamental Theorem of Interstellar Trade: If sentient beings may hold assets on two planets in the same inertial frame, competition will equalize the interest rates on the two planets.

And yes, we will have some years be used in the journey, but I think just won't be so long, as it is just an example to use 100 years from RAIA to the ACADEMY :/ 

Maybe we won't really take so long in our game designs, perhaps...we could have like 2000x the speed of light? As far as we are not reaching warp level 10 (since we across the barrier of light, our slope move into somewhat may be called hyperspace. And if we curve more space into one point there would be a physical limit or the Planck limit to prevent us to do furthermore).

Which mean that maybe we won't have to change our economic systems, maybe or not :/ 

But then came to another big question. In order to keep a stable price in our galactic empire , HOW will we send messages across such huge distances to contact with our colonies??

(Messager ships? oh maybe too vintage...

HoJo wrote:

More about: (Well this part is always weird and chaotic, maybe it's better to don't mind this part. And I just can't make it clear to mind, always).

As if an FTL movement equals to travelling back in time......well my personally don't agree with that and I think it's just can't do it. 

As we seem to have no route to go backwards in time. And even if we took some other observer's visions, it seems that we were not moving back in time.

No, that's the part that's critical. It's about causality violation, not just "time travel." It's usually expressed as:

Relativity, Causality, Faster-Than-Light Travel: Pick Any Two!

FTL travel or communication violates causality, which is the big problem no matter what the mechanism. Here are two links that explain it using different diagram methods. I know it's not easy to get one's head around, but this is apparently the "real" reason why FTL travel isn't likely, even if we find some shortcut like wormholes:

Why FTL Implies Time Travel

How does traveling faster than light "break" causality?

One of my favorite sci-fi authors -- Alastair Reynolds -- has played with this idea. In the "House of Suns" novel, the entire Andromeda Galaxy is suddenly blacked out, due to a wormhole discovery that allows instantaneous travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda. The Universe blacks out Andromeda from the Milky Way (and vice-versa) to prevent causality violations from observation below the speed of light. He also wrote a short story with this idea involving tachyon transmission from Mars to the Earth, that causes a bubble that prevents causality violation until the link is destroyed, but I can't remember the name.

Anyway, this is all very fascinating, but Endless Space 2 is a fictional game that wouldn't work -- or at least wouldn't be as much fun -- without assuming FTL travel and communication without causality violations.  :)

Zenicetus wrote:

No, that's the part that's critical. It's about causality violation, not just "time travel." It's usually expressed as:

Relativity, Causality, Faster-Than-Light Travel: Pick Any Two!

FTL travel or communication violates causality, which is the big problem no matter what the mechanism. Here are two links that explain it using different diagram methods. I know it's not easy to get one's head around, but this is apparently the "real" reason why FTL travel isn't likely, even if we find some shortcut like wormholes:

Why FTL Implies Time Travel

How does traveling faster than light "break" causality?

Well...I know about the Causality and the Locality, but you know, I just can't figure out how to change those charts to apply that minus slope (I have seen one done that before but didn't succeed myself, as I had no idea how to get back to when I just leave somewhere) 

Anyway, Very thankful for that extra knowledge brother. :) 

And yes...you are right! Maybe I should not type too much about only a possible visual change which I think it would be at least some more fun :)

Slowhands wrote:

And this:
http://www.standupeconomist.com/pdf/misc/interstellar.pdf

"How should interest rates on goods in transit be computed when the goods travel at close to the speed of light? This is a problem because the time taken in transit will appear less to an observer traveling with the goods than to a stationary observer."

It's not just the ships!

Ravage (a French hobby & pen & paper rpg magazine) had a "Neo Carthago Delenda Est" short story in one of their issues that was basically an Imperium of Man's senator making the case for destroying a T'au colony because its produce could fly through warp space so fast it threatened the heart of the Imperium.

A very classic tale, but a fun one nonetheless, in this context.

Also in FTL travel your produce stays fresh "longer", so yay for out-of-season avocado!

plutar wrote:

Anyone with a good knowledge in physics can attest to this. This is a fictional fantasy game, and unfortunately FTL as we know it cannot exist in the standard model. The reason being is electromagnetism is what holds atoms together. 

I could understand that you talked about. For what my concern is: It seems that ES2 is looking more like a quite rigorous one with those newest and most advanced sciences. But yes the question remains to focus on:"How rigorous would we be? More or less or just somewhere between."

So that was where I came to those ideas and finally, it is changed into a possible way that we may change some things or visuals. Maybe it's just about showing a new way to think about some new designs.

And we all have the same hopes there to cheer one day. :)