All Wars between the AIs are Never-Ending Fights to the Death? - Endless Space

All Wars between the AIs are Never-Ending Fights to the Death?

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 10:45:01 PM

Well that's kinda my point (At least with the new expansion) that you could gain so much more through peace like money and science through trade and that some nations even required it to be competitive and in ES you don't need trade at all and that peace can even lose you the game over another who sufficiently expands.

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cgboy2003

Newcomer

cgboy2003

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 7, 2013, 4:06:34 PM

Edit: I have already known that the AIs can negotiate a cease-fire with other AIs because one has done it in my last game(Endless difficulty).

I think that the devs have to fix it (if the AIs actually can't negotiate a cease-fire with other AIs because of some bugs or errors of the design) to improve the AIs' strength.

And I believe one of the reasons they behave in this way (if there is a correct setting to make them negotiate a cease-fire with other AIs) is because they fully conquer their enemies or subdue them too slowly comparing with how fast players do.

That's the old problem: the AIs can't use the new mechanisms well. Maybe the related techs are not often in the AIs agendas (sometimes the AIs can reach the techs and perform the new tricks, but not so often), and all of these need human beings to give the AIs a hand. (The AIs can't realize the strategic value of a certain tech. Only human beings can)

But, there might be only some bugs or errors making the AIs unable to perform normally (maybe it is too difficult to trigger the behavior of negotiation with other AIs). If it is that case, I think the devs can fix it in no time after enough players discuss it and attract their attention.

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VIPMTB-Fritz

Wannabe Survivor

VIPMTB-Fritz

Wannabe Survivor

11 years ago

Aug 7, 2013, 6:16:46 AM

To be honest my mind-set is peacefull at first but once I m "done" optimizing my empire the only way to continue is to declare war on others and to be honest....I m not sleeping any worse for anihilating other races. Its just logical. The course of action in my matches (peacefull at first - blood-thirtsly later) is probably due to my inability to multi-task well, something the AI doesnt have problems with

Might depend on difficulty but I ve seen quiet a lot kills between AIs in the recent past. Its true that AIs generally "spam" you with cease fire offers when they are on their last leg. I m not sure how readly an AI would accept such a thing when the offer cannot really hold anything of value.

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EvilLordXenu

Newcomer

EvilLordXenu

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 7, 2013, 5:19:28 AM

the "endless" war that the ai wages is how it can become large faster . there is fog of war in the game and either you run in to them or they run in to you . you dont know whats going on on the other side of the galaxy . you would have to go through 1 of the ai factions but even if you do while you did that a ai that you didnt attack has been crushing another and there empire is bigger .

it wont always work in the ai's favor but given all the different victory conditions all of the peaceful ones are easier if your empire is larger and more built up . endless war helps the ai stay competitive sometimes given some other things that the ai will do. 1 at a time there not bad but 3 on 1 it gets annoying how much they send your way and it encourages short term alliances to prevent anything like that .instead of the ai being friendly with itself it gets the player to be friendly with a faction sometimes

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VIPForaven

Newcomer

VIPForaven

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 6, 2013, 2:25:47 PM

JetJaguar wrote:
I think maybe it should be advantageous for the more war-like races to be at war most of the time; but as for the first war always being the last war... I think it's mainly because the losing AI doesn't seem to realize that they're losing, as far as making concessions for cease-fires goes. In my current game, I have every single Hissho system under blockade and invasion... and they still won't make peace

Hum... Yeah, that seem a problem. The AI wasn't that great in that regard before AMAS, but seem it got worst since. Seem i should start looking into this as i update my mod...

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Gaizokubanou

Newcomer

Gaizokubanou

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 6, 2013, 5:04:50 AM

JetJaguar wrote:
I think maybe it should be advantageous for the more war-like races to be at war most of the time; but as for the first war always being the last war... I think it's mainly because the losing AI doesn't seem to realize that they're losing, as far as making concessions for cease-fires goes. In my current game, I have every single Hissho system under blockade and invasion... and they still won't make peace

I'm sure losing AI can tell they are losing and wants peace, because I get peace request with a gift from losing AIs all the time (seems consistent from easy - endless and from current release build to beta patch).

I doubt that winning AI will ever accept it though, and it probably has no reason to accept it except for very very very rare occasions when the winner is not ahead by much but is threatened by other factions.

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JetJaguar

Newcomer

JetJaguar

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 6, 2013, 3:31:04 AM

Igncom1 wrote:
To be fair, what real advantages are there to not being at war?

I think maybe it should be advantageous for the more war-like races to be at war most of the time; but as for the first war always being the last war... I think it's mainly because the losing AI doesn't seem to realize that they're losing, as far as making concessions for cease-fires goes. In my current game, I have every single Hissho system under blockade and invasion... and they still won't make peace

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VIPForaven

Newcomer

VIPForaven

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 6, 2013, 3:03:55 AM

Igncom1 wrote:
To be fair, what real advantages are there to not being at war?

You can focus on other things than building ships to replace those you lost...

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 11:48:28 PM

I usually get the diplo victory when I play as the Hissho and my economy causes a 'dark age' and so I can't conquer the rest of em.

Dark age: When your economy runs dry and you need a 70+ tax to survive, causing mass revolts draining almost every system's food to it's minimum level.

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Suzuteo

Newcomer

Suzuteo

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 11:42:17 PM

Pretty much. In my opinion, diplomacy is not a victory condition, but a necessary component to achieve a scientific or economic victory.

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JetJaguar

Newcomer

JetJaguar

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 11:18:37 AM

I've now played a few fairly long games of Disharmony and I have yet to see a single war between two (or more) AIs end! This means that once an AI declares war against another AI, it's a fight to the death.

Seeing how the AI deals with the player when negotiating a cease-fire, I suspect that these ever-ending wars are the result of neither AI being willing to make even the slightest of concessions -even the side that's losing!

To me, this really hurts game play. I know that ES isn't meant to be Civ (or any other 4x game other than itself) but imagine if in Civ or Europa-Universalis (or in any other strategy game which has the game mechanism in place to make peace -and ES certainly does), if a war started in ancient times was GUARANTEED to continue into the modern era.

For now, is there any modding solution to this problem that you can suggest? Thanks in advance

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T41

in Disguise

T41

in Disguise

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 10:38:25 PM

Igncom1 wrote:
To be fair, what real advantages are there to not being at war?

I would always declare war in Civ 5, peace is just too boring.

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 10:25:01 PM

To be fair, what real advantages are there to not being at war?

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Stargem

Newcomer

Stargem

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 8:04:22 PM

They are often late, and sometimes never get around to making peace. They also don't like relying on trade agreements or a favorable deal where they receive 24+ resources, because they apparently think they can take on the empire doling out those things. The AI doesn't know what it needs, only what it wants. Nor does it understand the concept of prioritization: Eat small fish before trying bigger fish.

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cgboy2003

Newcomer

cgboy2003

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 5:08:34 PM

dizzy_xc wrote:
I've seen AI's in Disharmony offer peace and concessions when losing.

I think he meant "when."

I guess that some people could think the AIs do that too late.

And I think so, too.

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dizzy_xc

Newcomer

dizzy_xc

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 4:59:25 PM

universecreep wrote:
Also, making the AI more rational so that it "knows" when it's losing a war and will try to sue for peace.

I've seen AI's in Disharmony offer peace and concessions when losing.

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JetJaguar

Newcomer

JetJaguar

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 3:57:16 PM

Ashbery76 wrote:
That is not good at all.A.I's being at permanent war without end makes them even weaker.

That's for sure. but also, it's just not good for immersion. There cannot be a "Second Hissho-Horatio War", fought with the next generation of weapons tech; or a chance for the faction that was humiliated by the peace treaty which ended the last war to "put it's house in order" during the peace and emerge stronger in the next war. and of course this isn't how ES was intended because it has all the game mechanisms for cease fire treaties, where you can exchange basically anything as part of a peace treaty. but as of now, peace treaties which end wars do not exist in ES.

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Ashbery76

United

Ashbery76

United

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 3:27:46 PM

That is not good at all.A.I's being at permanent war without end makes them even weaker.

Londo - "Only an idiot fights a war on 2 fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots fights a war on 12 fronts."

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universecreep

Eyder New

That's why we're aboard her!

universecreep

Eyder New

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 2:08:28 PM

JetJaguar wrote:
]

To me, this really hurts game play. I know that ES isn't meant to be Civ

I think ES could become much better if the Devs took some things from Civ and put them in the game.

Diplomacy in ES is pretty bland. They could do something like leader heads ala Civ IV. Also, making the AI more rational so that it "knows" when it's losing a war and will try to sue for peace.

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