I have made a sticky thread in the FAQ to give at least a faster access to the manuals especially following updates.

/#/endless-space/forum/34-faq/thread/14956-endless-space-manuals



Hope it will help to acquire the basics.



Otherwise we will have a look to the Wiki to add more specific details like calculations and design contents that were discussed with the community on a larger scale.

Point taken in the intended spirit. Sometimes I get a bit hyperbolic when I try to make a point...I blame the hardheaded folks in my family. On an up-note, the info I managed to dig up seems to have gotten me on the right track. Granted, it is only on easy difficulty at the moment, but I am dominating. Hopefully some of the info and a wee bit of experience will allow me to keep ratcheting up the difficulty every game or two.

• Youtube LPs for Endless Space: Disharmony are generally only good for the basics. I've not browsed extensively, but I've never seen anything useful for real mechanic exploration.
• Please correct the following statement if it is in any way wrong: Because the in game tool tips inadequately inform players as to how most game systems work, we are left to muddle through the game's XML files, an outdated wiki and an outdated manual to figure out how to play properly...unless we are a "VIP" with a special information pipeline to the devs.
• Well, the manual is pretty basic and is more of a quick start guide.
• The real information has come from dev posts and the hours various forum dweller's have put into documenting and testing various mechanics.
• The wiki (make sure you reference the Disharmony combat mechanics page, not the base game mechanics page) is pretty sparse but is the best place to start your study. The mechanics have also shifted in the beta patch. Not the underlying formulas (much), but the implemented values. If you have time updating and adding information to the wiki would be useful.
• I have this dream of the VIP forums containing all the secrets of the universe and endless gummy bear candies.
• None of this contradicts your fundamental point, just a little bit of the hyperbole.
• The 1.1.17 combat mechanics were the result of the beta changes. However, they are still wonky, per the threads talking about it.
  
  

assafb

• Paradox is pretty bad about the wiki mechanics too. EU3 Combat mechanics give me nightmares even today (even if it just boils down to : Build Only Cavalry)
• Sword of the Stars - Greatest 4x game. Nearly incomprehensible without a wiki or years of experience.
• What is a ruling mechanic?
• I don't disagree with your underlying points, but there is a bit of hyperbole in your posting. Devs have a hard time taking people seriously when there is a lot of exaggeration.
• Plus exaggeration leads to frustration. Frustration leads to Anger. And Anger leads to a sad Yoda. You don't want to make Yoda sad, do you?
  
  

General Combat Advice for 1.1.17

• Build only Short Range Kinetics, Medium Range Lasers, or Long Range Kinetics.
• Rough Weapon Module Ratio: 3:2:1 - Kinetic:Laser:Missile
• Rough Defense Rating Ratio 3:2:1 - Kinetic:Laser:Missile
  
  

assafb wrote:
Guys, guys, guys - stop referring to the wiki, it's not legit.

I am not talking about the fact that it's very lacking and out of date, I am talking about the fact that information should be in-game (and at the right spot). So I am playing the game, and then I have to alt-tab and start searching in firefox for something that should have been in the tooltips. Be it the bombers' opaque phrasings that were mentioned here, the convoluted combat and non-clear-cut explanations of mechanics in it (I mean just see the calculations and tables in the other thread, they raise a lot of insights that are not what you intuitively understand from what you'd see in the game), but it's not limited to combat. For instance when trading technology if you want to know what exactly the improvements in those technologies do, you have to leave the trade and go to the science UI, or alt-tab. And frankly, when alt-tabbing only some information is available and up to date, so many times I go to the XML-s. Reduces the fun. And let's take another small example - how about the +2 to influence? I had to experiment to understand what exactly +2 is, what are the units, and that's because I wasn't sure how influence grows, where can I keep track of it etc.

I can go at it all day, and for most questions I ask, I can show you answers from the XML. But I don't want to research a game in the net, or be an engineer every time I go to combat, and start searching the XMLs as well, this is a light 4X and I love it for it, but if there are working models for explaining much heavier 4X games, surely they can be used here.



So no, wiki-s are not legit for ruling mechanics, wikis contain mechanics as well, but it is always also in-game in interactive sections as you play it, wikis do extend that info, but you should never learn something totally new on a gameplay mechanic from a wiki. Say you look at wikis for a wide variety of genres, such as Paradox/Civ/Elder-Scrolls/BioShock - Show me a ruling mechanic in a wiki that is not clear from the game itself, I'd say you'll get an order of magnitude less than in here. So no - please do not mention wiki as a legit source for mechanics-related information . It's good for a Beta, not for a game that has been out for a sufficient time already.



Thanks

I agree with all of this. I am a longtime vet of 4x games and have been incredibly discouraged by the opacity of the game mechanics. I have devoted many hours in the last week to researching complex damage formulas and figuring out how various systems work in the game. Additionally, I have spent numerous hours "learning" to play by watching LPs on youtube. After investing at least 24 hours to this endeavor, I am still not sure if my decisions are even close to optimal.



My discouragement quickly turned to anger when I discovered that a segment of the community here seems privy to some sort of clandestine information that only "VIPs" have access to. Please correct the following statement if it is in any way wrong: Because the in game tool tips inadequately inform players as to how most game systems work, we are left to muddle through the game's XML files, an outdated wiki and an outdated manual to figure out how to play properly...unless we are a "VIP" with a special information pipeline to the devs. Don't get me wrong, I actually really enjoy the game now that I have at least a basic grasp of the mechanics...I just wish that I could have spent my time playing instead of researching how to play. It is a real shame that the in-game documentation is so poor, as the devs did a magnificent job of creating the most intuitive and functional UI I have ever seen in a 4x game.



This is a good...possibly great game and I really want to recommend it to my friends. The problem is I am not sure that I can, as I fear they lack the time and patience to learn to play outside of the game as I have done. I really wish something could be done to make the game more accessible to players...I don't mean dumb down the game, as the game industry is wont to do...I simply mean that everything the player needs to know to learn play the game and make informed choices should be available to them in the game.

Guys, guys, guys - stop referring to the wiki, it's not legit.

I am not talking about the fact that it's very lacking and out of date, I am talking about the fact that information should be in-game (and at the right spot). So I am playing the game, and then I have to alt-tab and start searching in firefox for something that should have been in the tooltips. Be it the bombers' opaque phrasings that were mentioned here, the convoluted combat and non-clear-cut explanations of mechanics in it (I mean just see the calculations and tables in the other thread, they raise a lot of insights that are not what you intuitively understand from what you'd see in the game), but it's not limited to combat. For instance when trading technology if you want to know what exactly the improvements in those technologies do, you have to leave the trade and go to the science UI, or alt-tab. And frankly, when alt-tabbing only some information is available and up to date, so many times I go to the XML-s. Reduces the fun. And let's take another small example - how about the +2 to influence? I had to experiment to understand what exactly +2 is, what are the units, and that's because I wasn't sure how influence grows, where can I keep track of it etc.

I can go at it all day, and for most questions I ask, I can show you answers from the XML. But I don't want to research a game in the net, or be an engineer every time I go to combat, and start searching the XMLs as well, this is a light 4X and I love it for it, but if there are working models for explaining much heavier 4X games, surely they can be used here.



So no, wiki-s are not legit for ruling mechanics, wikis contain mechanics as well, but it is always also in-game in interactive sections as you play it, wikis do extend that info, but you should never learn something totally new on a gameplay mechanic from a wiki. Say you look at wikis for a wide variety of genres, such as Paradox/Civ/Elder-Scrolls/BioShock - Show me a ruling mechanic in a wiki that is not clear from the game itself, I'd say you'll get an order of magnitude less than in here. So no - please do not mention wiki as a legit source for mechanics-related information . It's good for a Beta, not for a game that has been out for a sufficient time already.



Thanks

I'm at a loss here. Fighting Pirates with no defenses whatsoever. My long-range designated Missiles, the long-range weapon, fighting in the long-range phase.



Hit nothing.



Meanwhile the melee-range designated Kinetics, the melee-range weapon, fighting in the long-range phase - do pretty damn reliable damage.



AND Flak defenses cost half as much...umm? Not that you'd even need any defenses apparently...



I'm really befuddled by this new combat system. Yeah glass cannon Missiles were a bit too cost effective in classic. But you could still run whatever you wanted and be effective. In Disharmony I'm rushing to retrofit everything to get rid of these worthless Missiles.

Thats really useful information..its a little hard to find the ships listing from the front of the wikia. I went to the faction pages and didnt find it

Evrett37 wrote:
how about a list of faction ship difference and unique techs as well as each factions unique ability ?

List of faction ship differences: http://endlessspace.wikia.com/wiki/Ships



List of unique faction abilities: http://endlessspace.wikia.com/wiki/Factions

scroll down to the specific faction and click the appropriate link

Would be nice for an updated version for the current patch. It seems to have drastically changed in the past 3 patches (when including beta ones)

how about a list of faction ship difference and unique techs as well as each factions unique ability ?

Hey!



I'll make a public spreadsheet with the updated data regarding weapons / defense and fighters / bombers during the week.



Cheers,

I saw the updated manual for the expansion (thanks nats to for providing the link):



cdn3.steampowered.com/Manuals/241430/Endless Space User Manual Master ENG - Disharmony.pdf?t=1372873859



But the manual does not appear to be current in its presentation of weapons or defenses.

-- There is no discussion of fighters or bombers and how much damage they do, when they attack, hoe often they shoot, what phases they are have bonuses/penalties

-- There is no discussion of the interaction of the different weapon types and the range option chosen when adding them to a ship

-- The weapon descriptions appear to be vanilla (Missiles are 90% accurate at long range and 40% accurate at short)

-- There is no discussion of evasion

-- The defenses appear to be the vanilla defenses (Deflectors deviate a certain number of kinetic projectiles)

-- There is no discussion of how to reload invasion modules

-- No explanation for why when I conquer a star system (as the Harmony) I get a penalty of 75% or more to the output of the system, or how that penalty can be reduced (over time? how long?)



This manual does not address the nuts and bolts of the new mechanics...

What am I missing?



Ulari

Or maybe we can get read only to VIP? Its kinda frustrating trying to find information when the devs and vets just post elsewhere...

I keep hearing about stuff on the so called VIP forums...That the problem with dividing your community. You take all the serious contributors out of general population and deprive the community at large of their wisdom and efforts.



Would someone mind mirroring or copying the useful theory crafting and whatnot over at VIP here for the peasants. Thanks.

Meedoc posted a spreadsheet in the VIP-forums about the damage-potential of 100 Tonnage in each of the 9 weapon-configuration for all ranges and in total including accuracies.



The defenses in that spreadsheet are outdated by now since they were nerfed after we pointed out that Omni-Tanks were pretty much indestructible.



The defense-formula also is known. So with the spreadsheet and the formula it should be possible to do enough calculations.

Vicarious wrote:
Please, keep at least all the in-game tooltips up-to-date.



bushido FID bonus duration

tooltip: 45 turns

factiontrait.xml: 5 turns

Really weird. Will look into this asap.

All tooltip are supposed to be up-to-date otherwise it is a bug and I will gladly gather all your feedback about those!

Ulari wrote:
Pikou :

Understood.

If in my previous posts I gave the impression that I was demanding the data must be in the manual, that is not what I meant (sorry).

I just want the data somewhere.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your point. An update of the manual was a good thing anyway and you gave me a good reason to go back to it which I hope will result in an improvement



Concerning your worries about the Wiki site there is indeed a lot of stuff that are still missing there.

We've put the basics and made some updates but the details are due to a lot of anonymous players.

However I'll see what we can do to at least put some of the mechanics and calculations used in Disharmony. (Did not figure how to make a parallel between the values of different versions yet...)

Pikou :

Understood.

If in my previous posts I gave the impression that I was demanding the data must be in the manual, that is not what I meant (sorry).

I just want the data somewhere.

If the Wiki is the appropriate place I am more than happy to look there.



It is frustrating to play the game (any game strategy game) with a shortage of information...

I want to make informed decisions. Not guess/experiment and find out many turns later that I misunderstood the mechanic.



Any idea on when the answers will be available on the Wiki?

I looked in the combat section today and it does not contain any information on the new Disharmony mechanics.



Thanks,

Ulari

Please, keep at least all the in-game tooltips up-to-date.



bushido FID bonus duration

tooltip: 45 turns

factiontrait.xml: 5 turns

The aim of the manual is to provide the basics of the gameplay and a wide look on features at disposal. Not the entirely detailed game design elements.

This is more the purpose of Endless Space wiki (http://endlessspace.wikia.com/wiki/Endless_Space_Wiki) to provide players with info on each race and various types of calculations.

I have to admit it is not entirely up-to-date as it is a collaborative tool. But if you search for those kind of answers it is definitely not in a manual you will find them.

One more simple question:



-- When a ship fires can it target more than one enemy ship in each volley?



If one ship must fire at one and only one ship in each volley, the long range projectiles seem 'bad' (huge overkill on previously damaged ships).

Also the value of large ships goes down (since it can destroy only one target per volley regardless of how many weapons it mounts).



Ulari

The manual needs better descriptions of the races...with hull changes and unique tech players should be equipped with more information to make an educated chose on who to play as. I'm personally interested in Horatio centric info -

What does the headhunter bonus do?

how do troops and population relate?

What is the difference between troops and invasion modules? Bombers and bomb modules?

Is there a benefit to having multiple civilian support modules?

What is the cost formula for cloning?

what is the formula/mechanic behind industry stacking, Bushido points, locusts points

Hello there,

I will begin the update with what you mention there and some other questions we answered after the release.

Hope it will help!