Such a Generous Offer but No! - Endless Space

Such a Generous Offer but No!

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cgboy2003

Newcomer

cgboy2003

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2013, 5:51:46 AM

It never happens to me in Disharmony Endless difficulty games.

The typical offer when the AIs are desperate is usually giving the player a star system of theirs.

Sometimes they have difficulties accepting such a treaty, but after it goes from bad to worse, they might offer a better one by themselves.

Sometimes they can't afford to lose one so they just offer resources or even something else.

But ask for a star system when they are losing? I think such a weird manner only occurs in lower difficulty.

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Anosogos

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Anosogos

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jan 1, 2014, 8:09:02 PM

Because I like to be diplomatic, I never try to eradicate anyone except the resource destroying Cravers and Harmony.

On normal, I've consistently received cease-fire requests with no additional strings when I'm a turn from taking a planet. I sort of honor the requests:

When they request a cease-fire, I decline, take the planet in the next turn, and immediately offer a cease fire on the condition they give me whichever adjacent system has the most useful resources.

They invariably accept. I think that's a bit silly.

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Strill

Newcomer

Strill

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jan 1, 2014, 9:01:19 AM

stormfox wrote:
Even more "fun" are the ones when you are just crushing them, they are down to one system, and then DEMAND something for peace (usually their old systems back) instead of trying to give you something. Again, this is something chronical to all 4x games, civ and co did the same stupid things.

Most of the time when I have an AI pinned down they offer me all but one or two of their systems, which greatly speeds up my invasion.

But personally I think that if you're in an alliance and have a good relationship with an AI they should be willing to do stuff like trade research evenly or give you stuff for free sometimes but ask you for free stuff occasionally as well. I think the underlying problem is that the AI has no sense of trust.

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stormfox

Newcomer

stormfox

Newcomer

11 years ago

Sep 17, 2013, 2:14:07 PM

Even more "fun" are the ones when you are just crushing them, they are down to one system, and then DEMAND something for peace (usually their old systems back) instead of trying to give you something. Again, this is something chronical to all 4x games, civ and co did the same stupid things.

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Stealth_Hawk

Voyager

Stealth_Hawk

Voyager

11 years ago

Sep 17, 2013, 2:06:16 PM

stormfox wrote:
Quoted for truth. In over 20 years of gaming, I can count the number or reasonable diplomatic propositions from AIs in 4x games on one hand. I tend to just click everything away unless its a peace proposal without any demands tacked on.

Got an offer the other day, basically like this:

If you give us all your strategic, luxury, and dust resources, we'll offer peace.

Over. My. Dead. Body.

I declared war that turn and eliminated them within five turns :P silly AI. Thought he could stand up to an Organic.

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stormfox

Newcomer

stormfox

Newcomer

11 years ago

Sep 17, 2013, 11:48:16 AM

Qoff wrote:
I just play a few 4x games but i never saw an AI with reasonable offers.

Quoted for truth. In over 20 years of gaming, I can count the number or reasonable diplomatic propositions from AIs in 4x games on one hand. I tend to just click everything away unless its a peace proposal without any demands tacked on.

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VIPMTB-Fritz

Wannabe Survivor

VIPMTB-Fritz

Wannabe Survivor

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 5:48:33 AM

knowing when to use a bluff and when to grovel and beg for your life.....the AI doesnt get it

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draeh

Newcomer

draeh

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 1:13:56 AM

I hit this lovely algorithmic mutation in a glorious fashion tonight. I had my last AI opponent down to their last star system and was in the process of invading when I got an offer for peace if I was willing to give back the two adjacent star systems and about 90% of the dust I had on hand. Needless to say, I declined their most generous offer and won the game a couple of turns later. lol.

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Nook

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Nook

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 4, 2013, 2:05:31 PM

Fenrakk101 wrote:

...t would be nice if certain requests actually had a different text box. For example, if they hate you and ask for something for ntohing, they could threaten you and demand tribute, and be angry at you for not giving them what they want (or be happier if you do, like in Spore). Similarly, an ally could ask for a resource saying they arein dire need of it, and if you don't give it to them they get angry at you for not being a good enough friend.

Yeah the current implicit threat make look the AI dumb and idiot because they often don't evaluate well situations. As no threaten is joined it looks like a bug or a random attempt.

But add a coherent threat or offering system would be quite a challenge to not look even more awful.

Overall the Diplomacy is fun and offer possibilities but sure there's points to improve.

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universecreep

Eyder New

That's why we're aboard her!

universecreep

Eyder New

11 years ago

Aug 2, 2013, 7:20:38 AM

I would like to see the devs make the diplomacy screen more interesting. Although I would love to see a Civ V type leader screen, I understand that the Devs don't have a huge budget to work with. However, even something as simple as the screens form Civ IV would be a nice upgrade. Right now I find diplomacy a little dry. This would go a long way to giving this great game some character. A lot of the negative things I've read about the game is in regards to how bland the game is at times.

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Suzuteo

Newcomer

Suzuteo

Newcomer

11 years ago

Aug 2, 2013, 6:05:37 AM

Nasarog wrote:
They need to rework the diplomacy aspect of the game really bad. I hope that's a big part of the next DLC.

I think they owe it to us to make diplomatic victory remotely feasible with computers. Right now, this 4X is expand, exterminate, exterminate, exterminate. -_-

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VIPMTB-Fritz

Wannabe Survivor

VIPMTB-Fritz

Wannabe Survivor

11 years ago

Aug 1, 2013, 10:12:02 AM

I consider regular deals being of the 50:50 value meaning each side gets 50% of the value. Additions like resources or systems come into play whenever one side has a distinct advantage over the other (theratens your borders, is about to invade outposts of yours etc). With the recent patches the AI is going completely gung-ho and unreasonable tho.

While before when invading his systems and threatening his home world he would gladly give me a system to prevent termination now he rather insults me by DEMANDING systems of my own to stop me from killing him.....yeah, as if THATS going to happen, alright then buddy....have it your way.

That being said I consider the old behaviour more logical and "better" all around.

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stib

Newcomer

stib

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2013, 1:29:48 PM

I had insane AI's too a few weeks back on normal difficulty. Had a thread opended about it too, but never get any reactions to it, only moderate ratings. I am not here to promote "my" thread, i am just glad that others are addressing this issue too!

I hope there will be a solution to this! Oh yes, i had this in a vanilla game. I got Disharmony yesterday, but have not played it yet. I wait for a bigger patch with it...

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coyote303

Newcomer

coyote303

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2013, 4:50:40 AM

I'm playing my first game in quite a while. I'm invading the last two systems of one of the AIs when he offers me peace if I throw in one of my planets.

I'm guessing this type of "generous" offer is typical? I'm playing Vanilla; is Harmony any more reasonable with AI trade offers?

Relatedly, another race offers me an alliance--which I would like--but only if I throw in an arm and a leg to sweeten the deal. Will the AI ever offer or accept an alliance even up?

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Fenrakk101

Oddity

Bridge Arsonist

Fenrakk101

Oddity

12 years ago

Jul 29, 2013, 6:39:30 PM

anc42 wrote:
It depends on what planet the AI asks for in a cease fire request. If they ask for a planet that you just conquered be returned as the price of a cease fire, it makes sense.

"You just conquered that planet from us, and you're about to conquer everything else we have, but if you wanna stop murdering us just give that back and we'll call it even kay?"

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donorfeo

Newcomer

donorfeo

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 29, 2013, 6:31:48 PM

Not necessarily. They do that from time to time, but it is after I have taken several of their systems and they have few remaining systems. And my fleets are moving unopposed to their next system. I take 4 systems from them and annihilate their fleets with little to no losses. They ask for a cease fire and demand any system (even one they recently lost). What sense does that make? It is like trying to ward off a hungry predator by marinating yourself. "I can do nothing to stop you at all and am about to lose yet another system, I offer a deal to make you stop killing me but only if you give me fairly unreasonable stuff". It is retarded and insulting.

If they were stopping my fleets in any way shape or form then your comment might make sense. If they are in a position to turn the tide then sure. They pretty much never are.

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anc42

Newcomer

anc42

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 27, 2013, 2:56:35 AM

It depends on what planet the AI asks for in a cease fire request. If they ask for a planet that you just conquered be returned as the price of a cease fire, it makes sense.

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Troodon

Newcomer

Troodon

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 27, 2013, 1:43:01 AM

I for one have always wanted changes to wartime diplomacy. Currently, if you are about to conquer an AI faction's last 2 or 3 systems and offer them a cease-fire, the AI still often chooses annihilation over simply giving you 3 redsang in exchange for survival. In fact, they will keep many things off the table as if that is preferable to destruction. In my opinion, when an AI faction (possibly save Hissho) is on the verge of destruction, it should be far more compliant with your ceasefire demands.

Similarly, I personally think that the flavor text should change at this point. It changes to things like "These terms are humiliating, but we have no choice..." or "Never! Every Hissho warrior would rather die 20 deaths than see their race submit to this humiliating treaty!"

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Fenrakk101

Oddity

Bridge Arsonist

Fenrakk101

Oddity

12 years ago

Jul 26, 2013, 3:33:47 AM

As the Cravers I do not suffer from broken diplomacy systems

smiley: stickouttongue

but yeah, it would be nice if certain requests actually had a different text box. For example, if they hate you and ask for something for ntohing, they could threaten you and demand tribute, and be angry at you for not giving them what they want (or be happier if you do, like in Spore). Similarly, an ally could ask for a resource saying they arein dire need of it, and if you don't give it to them they get angry at you for not being a good enough friend.

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Convector

Old Timer

Convector

Old Timer

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2013, 8:09:08 PM

That is true. i few games ago i was destroying the Sheredyn. They had maybe 4 systems left of their 25 and they go. oh have these 2 systems for peace. 15 turns later i waged war with them and took the home planet. So yes the new AI system is much better. Not only for diplomatic issues but just every thing. I personally think they are almost harder than real people.

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fatmanlittleboy

Forgotten Behemoth

fatmanlittleboy

Forgotten Behemoth

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2013, 6:09:55 PM

I don't mind the unreasonable demands so much as that you get a diplomatic penalty for not excepting them (such as when an ally demands a resource without anything in return). The AI should know their demand is unreasonable and not penalize you for it.

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Ca_Putt

Old

Ca_Putt

Old

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2013, 3:17:49 PM

I too have seen such behavior in many games, In ES I mostly see "PLEASE MAKE PEACE WITH US! WE EVEN GIVE YOU ONE OF OUR SYSTEMS!!!" I like those offers, they make me feel mighty

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Qoff

Newcomer

Qoff

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2013, 2:57:43 PM

I just play a few 4x games but i never saw an AI with reasonable offers.

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VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

I know nothing. To learn more, come visit us @ eXplorminate.net

VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2013, 2:17:31 PM

They need to rework the diplomacy aspect of the game really bad. I hope that's a big part of the next DLC.

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Ail

VIP

Ail

VIP

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2013, 8:15:37 AM

@Igncom1: Don't mix up Vanilla-Diplo-AI-Behaviour with Disharmony-AI-Behaviour!

In Vanilla it all depends on how much the AI likes you.

In Disharmony, with AMAS, it also considers stuff like: Am I a peacfull empire? How much military does this guy have? May he be interested on the same systems I am interested for?

So the answer to the question to:

"is Harmony any more reasonable with AI trade offers?"

Is yes. But then again it also heavily depends on who you are dealing with:

Sophon and Amoeba mostly will even give you stuff just to make peace with them and even more stuff for other treaties. Craver, Hissho, UE and Sheredyn will hardly be convinceable to anything but the rest of the races are relatively reasonable.

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2013, 4:57:24 AM

There is a lot of 'gunboat diplomacy' in endless space.

Usually deals like this are given if the AI believes you to be weak or to have a small fleet. Strength is respected and so increasing the size of your standing fleets should be considered to try and muscle out a better deal.

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