so i was playing a game in the newest version of disharmony yesterday, and late in the game i got into a war with the sophons. by this time they had the technology to terraform into tier 1 planets and they transformed all of their planets into oceans. since oceans only get +4 science per population compared to +20 science for helium or +12 for barren i thought it was a bit odd. by this time they had no need for approval and easily could have supported methane planets and their planets all had full population so they didn't need food. just wondering if its a bug or something. theres a screenshot at this link: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=217793284

More population, higher taxes.

I think it's probably because the AI was programmed that way before the planets where changed and just wasn't updated. Plus more pop = higher score.

They're building Dust not Science for whatever reason.



Considering 100% Food -> Industry conversion, food on high population planets (Class I) will likely outperform other planets (except perhaps Gas Giants, but those cannot be created) for Industry.



Convert that Industry into Dust/Science as required, and it might also possibly outperform the other Class planets that specialize.



See this thread for more details.

Zinsho wrote:
except perhaps Gas Giants, but those cannot be created

Gas Giants can be created once you've researched the gas giant terraforming tech that's right below the gas giant colonization tech. Asteroids is the only type that can't be terraformed in any way.

Oops, somehow I missed that.



You'd have to work out the calculation at the smaller planet sizes (Since the thread only shows results for Huge and assumes exploitation on all 4 types so the numbers are slightly skewed), but for Large and Huge planets it looks like Class1 will outperform even the Gas Giants when combined with Food->Industry Conversion.

Keep in mind that there is an extra + 1 pop improvement that's only for gas giants and asteroids. Add in the cloning 1 trait for a mere 5 points and all those gas giants have an extra +1 food per pop.



Huge Gas Giant base 4 pop

Methane 0 food, 20 industry, 1 dust, 1 science



Huge Jungle base 10 pop

4 food, 4 industry, 2 dust, 2 science



Max pop with improvements and an explored moon

+4 on jungle, +5 in gas giants.



Cloning 1 adds 1 food per pop to gas giants.

Optics Research Labs add +1 science per pop to Methane.

Intensive Cultivation Logistcs adds +3 food per pop with explored moon.

Epigenetic Crop Seeding adds +2 food per pop to jungle

Wasteless Supply Chain adds +1 food per pop to gas giants.



With just these improvements and the cloning 1 trait on races that don't have uniques replacing any of these or any other uniques adding to FIDS.



Methane 9 pop Food consumed 18

5 food, 20 industry, 1 dust, 2 science

Totals 27 food after consumption, 180 industry, 9 dust, 18 science

With food to industry conversion industry = 207



Jungle 14 pop food consumed 28

9 food, 4 industry, 2 dust, 2 science

98 food after consumption, 36 industry, 28 dust, 18 science

withfood to industry conversion industry = 134



Add Compact refrigeration for +30% food and Permanent Perennials for + 100% food surplus



Methane 9 pop Food consumed 18

5 food, 20 industry, 1 dust, 2 science

Totals 81 food after consumption, 180 industry, 9 dust, 18 science

With food to industry conversion industry = 261



Jungle 14 pop food consumed 28

9 food, 4 industry, 2 dust, 2 science

271.6 food after consumption, 36 industry, 28 dust, 18 science

withfood to industry conversion industry = 307.6

You're missing a few bonuses in there.



+3 to all from the two General System upgrades

+6 to appropriate Exploitation.



This means +12 Industry for Class I and Methane, +6 for the other Gas Giants (with +9 to their respective specialties).



Net: +60 Industry for Jungles compared to Methane (5 pop difference), +144 Industry for Jungles vs other Gas Giants, -39 for Jungle vs Other Gas Giants in their Exploitation focus (Actually -3 if you use Ind -> Dust/Sci conversion for +36 to them).



It also reads as though Wasteless Supply Chain is actually +1 to Planets, +1 to Gas Giants (so +2 for them, +1 for Jungle), which will adjust the values slightly more.



Once again this is with High population planets, using small planets the numbers will be slightly different (Population values vary less on smaller planets).

this was after i conquered it as sheredyn,converting science into dust, don't know what they were doing with it, also they converted their entire empire to ocean, not just this one system.

Out of curiosity (Assuming you still have that save):



Get it up to 100% Ownership (to ensure no penalties) and add any missing/desired improvements.



Take note of Ind/Dust/Sci production values. Make a save at this point.



Convert all except one planet to Gas Giant/Tundra/Desert, adjust the exploitations to optimize and then compare the values.



It's possible that they had superior production values using all Ocean, particularly with their Science bonuses etc.

I think you also underestimate the Approval. You say, they had no Approval Problems at this stage of the game.

The thing is simply more approval means, that you can crank up the taxes all the way up and get insane amounts of dust, which in turn you can use to buyout stuff everywhere or maintain gigantic fleets.



Gas giants are always the best in their IDS but overall they simply aren't as good as T1-planets.

but sophons get major science bonuses for smaller tax rates, they need science not dust. besides, before i attacked them they only had +1000 dust per turn. also i was taxing for 75% and maintained ecstatic without terraforming to tier one planets, why would they need money more than dust?

Just adding this because I did not see any mention of it. Having the hero Kyuind Neuil (Administrator/Commander)(Labor 7, Wit 0, Melee 0, Offense 4, Defense 4 base stats) has a special ability that gives +5 Ind. per pop. on methane, helium and hydrogen planets along with -10% ship cost on system. Just a random bit of info if you really like to min/max every system.