< EDIT: 5/16/2014 > I am finally able to mostly keep up with the AIs on the easy setting. I figured out how to keep enemy fleets from breezing thru systems with my own fleets. Still frustrated with the tech tree. Very difficult to decipher many of the techs there. I'm going to write my own 'tech paths' to delineate paths that are common /useful. For example, weapons: Tech path for missile (Torpedo) attack [defense] upgrades. Expansion disapproval helpers. Fleet CP increases, etc. Too bad the tech tree is almost useless because I don't read 'gobbledygook.' < / EDIT: 5/16/2014 >





ES has lovely graphics, and some excellent concepts. However, after playing 6 games (version w harmony) I conclude that the combat system basically = the biggest baddest fleet wins. All the wonderful tactics, and the rock/scissors/paper weapons systems are not really very effective. I like the rest of the game. (I have played 4x, strategy games, and FRP games since before the Apple //+ came out.) I have concluded that if I wan to play, I will have to do the battles manually. Yes, graphics here are stunning. Any advice on actually using the controls with mouse and k-board to do them manually? Does it work well? I don't want to spend another week trying to learn the manual battle approach only to discover its also a waste of time (biggest blunt hammer wins). Thank you all.

what you mean weapons systems not very effective? i mean they do make a difference to me e.g +40% missile/ laser weapon or +40% missile/ laser defense. they cards make a difference in my experience. maybe you haven't learned the rope enough yet. and you can use short version battle mode and pick cards in advance, of course that takes away adjustment throughout the fight.

endlessfan12 wrote:
what you mean weapons systems not very effective? i mean they do make a difference to me e.g +40% missile/ laser weapon or +40% missile/ laser defense. they cards make a difference in my experience. maybe you haven't learned the rope enough yet. and you can use short version battle mode and pick cards in advance, of course that takes away adjustment throughout the fight.

Thank you for asking. What I mean is the AI seems to have one strategy. Build massive numbers of fleets, suddenly go from peace to war, and then attack with a massive number of fleets. The combat system looks like it would be fun, even when losing. I experience this when facing off with pirates. But spending some time developing planets, etc. when all the AI seems to be doing is building fleets, and building fleets and making the space version of the 'stack of doom' creates a very boring game. It seems the way to win is to build, just like to AI, a massive stack of maxed out in number fleets, and go on the rampage. Boring - hate it. Am I missing something? Oh, yes, I use the cards - a very interesting concept, based by weapons and tactics on the ships, and tecks researched.- very cool idea. but when my fleet/s have been attacked already by 10 enemy fleets, they get worn down (attrition)- that's why I refereed to it as a sledgehammer. No fun finesse. Just cavemen bashing with their clubs, barney! edit: yes, been using 'short battle version.'

Battle cards influence battles, but if you're overmatched you will still lose--and vice versa. This is a good thing. I wouldn't want to lose my super powerful fleet led by my best leader just because I picked the wrong card.



Also, I assure you I don't build like the computer does. I build quality fleets versus the computer's quantity. How many ships I build is based on need. The computer starts building ships and never stops. I strive to become #1 in science and FIDS.



The cool thing about this game is there are other ways to win. My friend is much more aggressive in going to war. I tend to build up my empire. Both work. But yes, once war begins, it comes down to having the biggest, baddest fleets.

well i see what ya mean by ai pounding you with stack fleets and attrition killing ya. coyote's on the ball for #1 science and fids. i wanna share a secret, well maybe it's not really one. now i have the highest tier for fighters and bombers and i have carrier class for them with like 10x all defense types and 2x each fighters and bombers. and i complement this with cards, i been pretty much untouchable for a while. i dunno if the ai can catch up so...

endlessfan12 wrote:
well i see what ya mean by ai pounding you with stack fleets and attrition killing ya. coyote's on the ball for #1 science and fids. i wanna share a secret, well maybe it's not really one. now i have the highest tier for fighters and bombers and i have carrier class for them with like 10x all defense types and 2x each fighters and bombers. and i complement this with cards, i been pretty much untouchable for a while. i dunno if the ai can catch up so...

So how do I get the AI to leave me alone long enough to build up planets, etc. before thy decide to dog pile me? How do you all do it?

I'm curious, what does your early game look like? I.E. what order are you typically researching early game techs, what are your early build priorities etc. I suspect you might be falling behind due to some inefficiency that can be easily resolved.



As far as combat goes, it isn't really a tactical combat system inspite of appearances. Think of it as a visually movie showing you the results of choices you have made rather than something to control while it unfolds.

@warhawk: Yes, I understand, combat is set at beginning, and then the only input is when you play your cards. At beginning, or the three stages of combat. I start with n-fusion plants and then zenobiology; +10 production, +8 food. What do you recommend afterward - understanding that planet colonization varies a bit? I play Disharmony version, Sophon, or Humans. BTW, I find the tech chart very confusing as it doesn't tell what things do... you have to go elsewhere to 'decipher' it. Not very user friendly. >What tech path do you generally use for the humans or Sophon? <

With few exceptions I generally follow this path. N-way fusion plants (UE already have it), then either Isolation shields or Xenology. Usually it is Isolation shields first unless my home system has planets I can quickly colonize and thus increased food is of paramount importance. After that I generally dip down into the exploration side and grab arid and/or tundra tech depending on what I have in my home system and what my sout is revealing around me. After my initial planetary exploitation is done I start on the initiall industry building and then the plus 1 to science/ person building. (I'm really bad at remembering the buldings names). After that, hopefully I have found a juicy system to colonize with my free colony ship and if I have other planets to colonize in my home system I will do that, followed by another scout ship, and then another colony ship. Then I usually will grab missile and beam tech, then over to diplomacy so I can offer peace to my neighbors which I should now be running into with my scouts.



That is it, that is a pretty standard opening for me. From there I will have my eye on 3 different techs depending on how close I am to my neighbors, how much room I have to expand, and the quality of the systems I have around me. Arctic tech, happiness tech (the shoping cart icon), Casimir, and Non Baryonic Particles. That last one is real important, it's a bit expensive, but it is overpowered; it will really make your research take off.



Diplomacy wise, whether or not you get attacked seems to depend on a couple of things. A) How big is your military, B) do they have room to expand. Early game, I dont wory too much about being attacked, I an usally cobble together a fleet and hero capable of stoping whatever they send at me. Early game AI tends to favor kinetics with no shields or flak. Very easy to make a fleet quickly, capable of blowing that to Hell with little to no losses. Plus, early on, they aren't going to have any of the nasty invasion oriented techs to give you a real problem.



All of what I have described is based on a medium disk galaxy with 5 players (myself and 4 ai's). If you have a more crowded universe, or if you started abnormally close to cravers or something, you will definitely have to divert resources to making yourself militarily secure at the expense of growth.



The Tech Tree. As you mentioned in another post, the tech tree sucks. The names are nonsensical and reveal nothing about what the tech does, worse, the search option requires you know the name of the tech you are looking for...What use is that!? If I knew the name, id probably remember what it did and wouldnt need to look it up.. They need to ditch the cute names and use icons to better represent what the techs do, or at the very least fix the search engine so I can have it display only military techs, or industry techs, or approval, or terraforming, etc etc.

@Warhawk Thank you. Is good start. i usually do very well at these kinds of games. I just figured out that it has to do with the tech tree and my frustration at not finding what I'm looking for. I don't know if modding tools will allow us to edit the descriptors on the tree. If not I will have to make one by hand for reference. May I ask another question? About reading the battle cards: Offense, weapon overclock reads; "40% kenetics damage (block +10%); followed by -20 antimissile interception (Block: +20%). OK, Say my ship has no kenetics. Do I get a block 10% if the card is not trumped? I have read the wiki - and these cards are very confusing to me. A little light, please?

ElanaAhova wrote:
@Warhawk Thank you. Is good start. i usually do very well at these kinds of games. I just figured out that it has to do with the tech tree and my frustration at not finding what I'm looking for. I don't know if modding tools will allow us to edit the descriptors on the tree. If not I will have to make one by hand for reference. May I ask another question? About reading the battle cards: Offense, weapon overclock reads; "40% kenetics damage (block +10%); followed by -20 antimissile interception (Block: +20%). OK, Say my ship has no kenetics. Do I get a block 10% if the card is not trumped? I have read the wiki - and these cards are very confusing to me. A little light, please?

ok let me give my insight and what seem to work in my epxierence. i have bombers and fighters carrier so i don;t think none of the battle card weapons boost applies to that class. if it's like "-20% missles damage", then i interpret as enemy weapon in that area -20%. if card saids "laser +20", then that area of your weapon is +20%. and yea if you don't have a class of weapons ,i wouldn't expect the weapon boost to work very well. but defense still work though provided you have shields when the cards saids" shield boost" , seem to work for me.

endlessfan12 wrote:
ok let me give my insight and what seem to work in my epxierence. i have bombers and fighters carrier so i don;t think none of the battle card weapons boost applies to that class. if it's like "-20% missles damage", then i interpret as enemy weapon in that area -20%. if card saids "laser +20", then that area of your weapon is +20%. and yea if you don't have a class of weapons ,i wouldn't expect the weapon boost to work very well. but defense still work though provided you have shields when the cards saids" shield boost" , seem to work for me.

Thanks, e fan12, what you wrote makes sense.



How do I keep enemy fleets (at war) from waltzing through a chokepoint where I have a big fleet?