Count me in for another tutorial. I think you could do a tutorial map even, do a tiny galaxy 1v1 with newbie settings. Then have some kind of virtual adviser or whatever offering suggestions and talking through the different mechanics of the game.

I actually prefer a large introduction image showing me what all the functions of the window does, than another annoying step-by-step tutorial like every other game these days have.

I want the info upfront, so i can decide how to play my way after reading, rather than being "forced" to build specific ships or design a specific thing, or move to a specific system, just to follow a specific tutorial mini-mission.



The problem is not that the current tutorial is bad in any way, in fact it is extremely informative.

The problem is that most players these days DON'T READ. Like literally do not read, even if a sentence clearly says "Press here to modify existing designs", 5 minutes later they will ask "arhhh why dont the game tell me where to modify designs?!".



The tutorial could definetly be more interactive, with on-screen hints and such. But for some game concepts and such in strategy games, you just have to read. It's just the way it is. If you wanna understand these types of games you MUST read. It's the same with Europa Universalis, Distant Worlds, Galactic Civilizations 2, Sins of a Solar Empire, Sword of The Stars, etc etc..

If you don't read, or don't have the patience to read, you will not understand the underlying concepts or mechanics of the game. Period.

A simple flashy-flashy arrow pointing to the tax slider or build ship button will not help. Sure you will know how to build ships, but you'll still lose.



I'm sorry but that's just the way it is. And thank god at least one game genre in existance still has not fallen into the old "Press X for win" simplicity.

Well, except Civ 5 where it's more a case of "Queue military to win".

maceman wrote:
Sadly the new generation of gamers are strictly visual learners. anyone remember the intricate tutorial for MOO? no? what? I'm sure it was there....



no one reads anymore!! :P



Though I agree the option for an interactive tutorial does help new people into the genre and helps point out a lot of the subtleties to the masses... which boosts sales which is important... those that deign it unnecessary or too time consuming to read the text are missing a fantastic immersive layer of backstory written into the game.

I'm an old generation gamer. Not so much with strategy games, but with RPGs going way back so I definitely not afraid of reading. I do like reading stories but when it comes to instructions I admit to being more of a visual learner. It is just easier for me to see it done or actually do it than it is to read through and process instructions how to do something. I am the same way with directions too. People can tell me go this street then turn left on that street, right on the other street etc and it's just words until I can visual it with landmarks.



That said, I did go back and make myself re-read through the texts carefully and pay close attention and I am slowly getting the hang of some of the basics. I had to go down to easy mode for now though because I still suck at the game right at the moment. ;-)



I made an extra effort because I really want to play this game! I don't think a younger or more casual gamer would do that though. I think they would just get frustrated and bored by not being thrown right into gameplay and move on.

I felt the EXACT same way!

I agree that the current tutorial is a bit obtrusive and breaks the flow of the game :P

But, I think a tooltip-style tutorial would work really well here. The average amount of text per point on the tutorial pages would make for a nice little non-invasive popup :P

Sadly the new generation of gamers are strictly visual learners. anyone remember the intricate tutorial for MOO? no? what? I'm sure it was there....



no one reads anymore!! :P



Though I agree the option for an interactive tutorial does help new people into the genre and helps point out a lot of the subtleties to the masses... which boosts sales which is important... those that deign it unnecessary or too time consuming to read the text are missing a fantastic immersive layer of backstory written into the game.

[QUOTEusername='[pug]Greta;9258']I like the "walls of text." (though it did keep me from playing the game after I bought it because it was late at night and was too tired to read it all..) However they do not teach one to play the game, per se. I agree a tutorial would be better, and move the texts in a manual or an index. To me they feel like things that would be in a game manual. From growing up, and reading the manuals, I can say what is currently in game would normally be in a game manual.

[/quote]



I definitely don't think they should get rid of those current tutorial texts, but move them somewhere as reference material to go back to and make them a little easier on the eyes to read. I'm playing the game at 1920x1080 and suspect a lot of others will be doing so. I have a large monitor (27") and that text was still difficult for me to read.



I also agree with the others who said that the placement of it while you are playing the game is a bit confusing as I was at first clicking thinking it was an actual game screen with tool tip text boxes until I realized it was one big image file. It sounds like most of us first tried this game late at night when we were tired so that may have something to do with it too. ;-)

I never paid much attention to advisers in civ games, though I probably should have. I think it would be nice to have something like Total War, where there's a tutorial campaign. Advisers would be nice, however I'd prefer a tutorial campaign if I had to choose one of the two.

I think both would be best personally, a hands on tutorial for the basics and (optional) advisors for the more complex concepts that don't maybe pop up until you are a bit further in the game.

Depending on the game genre, I don't bother with tutorials at all. I just jump in the game and pick things up. But for strategy games, I normally check the tutorial out if I've never played the series before (assuming it is a series), or if the ui is confusing. Point of this is, I think this kind of genre really needs a tutorial, purely because there can be so much to the game. And if you're new to the genre completely, you're most likely going to be lost and end up hating it if you refuse to look around outside the game to learn how to play.

Agreed, I think strategy games are one genre that really need a tutorial because there are just so many controls and options.



I fully realize this is an alpha so I definitely don't expect everything super polished at this point. I just really hope they get the game a lot more newbie friendly by launch because I think that will have a huge effect on their sales. The Civ and Total War games are popular because they are very easy even for a total beginner to get into. Right now in its current state the same is unfortunately not true at all for this game, but I look forward to updates.

I like the "walls of text." (though it did keep me from playing the game after I bought it because it was late at night and was too tired to read it all..) However they do not teach one to play the game, per se. I agree a tutorial would be better, and move the texts in a manual or an index. To me they feel like things that would be in a game manual. From growing up, and reading the manuals, I can say what is currently in game would normally be in a game manual.



I never paid much attention to advisers in civ games, though I probably should have. I think it would be nice to have something like Total War, where there's a tutorial campaign. Advisers would be nice, however I'd prefer a tutorial campaign if I had to choose one of the two.



Depending on the game genre, I don't bother with tutorials at all. I just jump in the game and pick things up. But for strategy games, I normally check the tutorial out if I've never played the series before (assuming it is a series), or if the ui is confusing. Point of this is, I think this kind of genre really needs a tutorial, purely because there can be so much to the game. And if you're new to the genre completely, you're most likely going to be lost and end up hating it if you refuse to look around outside the game to learn how to play.

Just gonna throw in my two cents here. I'm definitely agreeing with a lot of what's being said in this thread. I think the devs should seriously consider adding a more interactive tutorial. Having advisors or something like Civ V or Total War would be cool but may not be exactly what's needed. But I'd also like to thank the devs for actually adding any sort of tutorial at all, especially at this point. It's still alpha, switching to beta, and the way things are done could change so it would be best to wait until the end to write up a tutorial. That way it will be most relevant and include all the newest content. And look at Minecraft. I know it's a different kind of game but it doesn't have a tutorial in-game. The achievements that sort of give you a clue as to what to do weren't added until late beta. And if you really want to know the nuts and bolts of it you still have to go online and look it up. This is definitely the most polished alpha I've ever seen and thank you devs for sharing it with us.

I think this game really needs a better tutorial system, maybe something like CivV, or like others had said, just a small galaxy with three star systems and interactivelly teaching you how works this game, as it has some new things never seen on a game before, as the concept of Dust and how works and interacts the Planetary buildings and Stellar buildings (I understand it better now). The first "stone" I'd found was when I wanted to build a ship, I was somekind of lost there.



Anyway, it's at Alpha stage and just released a couple of days now. Maybe the devs did the tutorial this way just to try to help us a bit, and has plans to do another (better) tutorial for the Beta or Full release.. Nice we can watch those videos and maybe resolve some doubts

I'm really enjoying this game, it has.. "soul", atmosphere, feeling or whatever you want to name it. Is something that I don't find or feel with many modern games and make me abandon them. Not with this one Also, I want to say that I found myself many times remembering that this is "just" an Alpha release, I don't feel that way, it´s like a nearly finished Beta.. or a Gold launched before it was really finished :rolleyes:

I don't mean to sound unkind, but this is one of the most newbie unfriendly games I have ever played. Not having played games of this sort before I am a total loss as to what is happening.

I have managed to move my ships and even colonize a planet but cannot get much further than that. The tool tips and descriptions do very little to help. It's as if the developers have said "We know how things work, so everybody else should"



Anyway, I am not giving up, I have a couple of videos to watch that may shed some light.

KaB00S3 wrote:


I absolutely agree with the idea of an interactive tutorial as suggested: bought ES late last night and wanted to play it a bit before going to bed, but the text-based tutorial breaks the flow of the game. The text based tutorial is definitely detailed enough and if you take the time to read it will explain everything well, but you lose the sense of being the galactic general/overlord/commander or whatever you want to be as soon as they pop up.

.

It sounds like you're asking for advisors more than a tutorial. Advisors make suggestions and explain their reasoning while tutorials teach you how to play the game. Between the textual tutorials and the manual, I felt like I had a good command of the game within about 20 minutes of playing and turned off the tutorials. I haven't turned them back on since that time.



Maybe it would be prudent to have a 3 star system tutorial mode that teaches you how to do everything, including conquering a star system, but again, it sounds like you would prefer an advisor system over a tutorial.

My experience of Space 4x games goes back to Star control on the Sega Mega Drive, Supremacy on the Atari STE and up through MOO, MOO2 ETC ETC on the PC. I can honestly say I have Tried/played just about every Space 4x game going and the best way I always learnt how to play was to just play! Play the game. If you don't understand something just keep playing. I find things generally come together eventually. To me it's about the exploration of the actual game, the mechanics the UI etc. It's a game in itself. Play and lose heavily, play and lose heavily, play and lose. Eventually you will start understanding it. It's great fun. I love doing it this way.

Also, this game does seem to be one of the better 4x Space games and it's still in Alpha. So I am looking forward to this game getting even better.

LordOfLostSocks wrote:
One of the things many 4x games lack is a decent tutorial, that actually encourages the player to play it instead of starting the campaign and randomly clicking buttons 'til you know what to do.

To late for me, I've allready lernt using this method lol. I was restarting the game once i made to many mistakes and starting again remembering what i was doing wrong, i think i've picked it up now though since i'm over 100 turns and doing nicely

FlyinAlex wrote:
Hello all,



Just discovered this little gem of a game via Steam promo. While there is no detailed tutorial yet, i found a pretty good gameplay video on youtube, which helped me understand the basics of this game. It's over an hour long and quite enjoyable to watch.



You can find it by searching youtube for "Let's Play Endless Space" by OverloadUT (1 hour 21min long video) or using direct link HERE.



Hope it helps you too!



PS. First post for me as well. Hi from California, USA!

Thanks for the link, will go and make some coffee an watch it see if i can learn any tips. I would like an empire with less friends more enemies and survive to tell about it =p

Hello all,



Just discovered this little gem of a game via Steam promo. While there is no detailed tutorial yet, i found a pretty good gameplay video on youtube, which helped me understand the basics of this game. It's over an hour long and quite enjoyable to watch.



You can find it by searching youtube for "Let's Play Endless Space" by OverloadUT (1 hour 21min long video) or using direct link HERE.



Hope it helps you too!



PS. First post for me as well. Hi from California, USA!

Let me just preface this by saying I like the idea of this game (obviously, because I bought it) and really want to get into it. I am not intending to slam the game or the developers but in fact am trying to give constructive criticism.



I've been playing games for a long time, since I was a kid in the 80s, so I definitely remember a time when games were a lot less user friendly and expected you to figure things out on your own or do all the research and work. I guess with age I've become less patient in that respect and also I simply have less time.



I like complex games, I really do, and I am frustrated at times by the trend to 'streamline' games and all the hand holding such as arrows telling you exactly where to go next for the entire game and so forth. Having said that, I really feel strongly that a modern game for today's audience needs a good (optional of course) tutorial to walk the user through be showing them how to play, letting them jump right in and play some of the basicals themselves and then gradually introducing more advanced concepts. In other words, show, don't tell.



I bought this game last night, tried out the tutorial and was excited to try it out, quite honestly I found it difficult to get started and not very intuitive for a beginner. I felt like I kept running into walls of text. The tutorial for this game in the current condition, in my opinion, is more like a glossary or encyclopedia of knowledge. It's a great reference tool but I personally learn better through example and practice than I do through study.



I think Civilization V had a great tutorial and way of introducing you to the gameplay with the advisors. It let you play right away and then made suggestions, which you were able to turn off if you weren't interested in them. I think more importantly I felt right away like I was playing a game and having fun vs sitting and reading a detailed book.



Please understand I am not attempting to be negative here but rather am really excited about this game and the concept of it. I would like it to be able to reach the widest audience it reasonably can and still maintain the integrity of the concept. I'm in no way asking for the game to be changed but rather hoping at some point there will be an updated tutorial that actually involved the player directly in learning the game and eases them in a bit more slowly. Not everyone is overly familiar with this sort of genre but I think a lot of people can enjoy it if they don't get frustrated early on trying to learn how to play.



At any rate, when I tried it last night for the first time I admittedly was tired so I will give it another go again some time soon. Perhaps I'll try and see if there is some sort of manual, tutorial, walkthrough etc that I can read through offline without having sit in front of my monitor screen and read lots of documentation.



I would love to just jump into this game and start playing but I personally did not find it intuitive and I'm by no means a new gamer here either.



Thank you for listening.

+1



I hate to say it, but I think it was a bit of an unfortunate misstep to release this alpha build to steam without a polished tutorial. The devs massively opened up the potential player base, while failing to ensure the game had the proper introductory hook that would ensure many of those players stuck around.



I for one, will (tomorrow when less tired) be sticking around to see if I can dig through the intro texts, but I can certainly see many who will take a glance at it, and then move on quickly. A proper tutorial asap, could massively propel this game forward.



The little I have got into tonight (my first 30 min with the game) really excites me. I just want to see this game get to highest consistent player base it can. I hope its everything my initial impression suggests it is.

I agree the tutorial did nothing for me except confuse me, I also thought it was part of the game and not a tutorial screen, they looked to much alike. The lack of any decent quick start or first play walk-through stopped me dead in my tracks. Thankfully a forum member helped me out, so that I was at least able to get started.



The text needs to be larger and less of a wall. I have good eyes but had to squint to read most of it.

If i want to read text give me a book so i can ease my eye's on it.

If its ingame give me a video example cause then i can relax my eye's and carefully learn how it is done. Well perhaps its my personal problem with text ingame but to be honest if its quickly to the point text i also would still read it but i never read wall of text ingame (or pick only few parts of the text) unless it is the forums like here.



But i learned by doing it though.

biggest thing i found with the tutorial as it stands, is that it seems too much like the actual screens, and i ended up going on a click rampage trying to get the buttons to do anything... then notice the little circles with numbers on them and clue in.

i want to link the EC: How to Make a Good Tutorial episode here but I'll refrain for now

Before I continue this post: Endless Space looks really promising and I am very excited to see where it goes.



I absolutely agree with the idea of an interactive tutorial as suggested: bought ES late last night and wanted to play it a bit before going to bed, but the text-based tutorial breaks the flow of the game. The text based tutorial is definitely detailed enough and if you take the time to read it will explain everything well, but you lose the sense of being the galactic general/overlord/commander or whatever you want to be as soon as they pop up.



A good example of a interactive tutorial would also be the ones present in the Total War games (or specifically Empire and Rome from my experience) where you have "advisors" that help you with getting familiar with the game mechanics and later on give you some "survival" advice like "That town is about to rebel: do this to fix it". The Total War tutorial system is a good example because it not only gets you on your feet but also gives you hints and tips until you are comfortable to turn the advisor off and go at it on your own.

I know the devs are busy but it would probably be worthwhile for them to take a few hours to do this.

Yes, my first impressions about the tutorial were "it's nice that they have some kind of tutorial, but.." and I ended up skipping most of it.



Granted that with all the 4X games I've played earlier, I've managed easy enough without the tutorial as well.



I'd rather have first couple rounds "do this do that" tutorial (which you could skip obviously) to get people going than blocks of text.



Advisors would be great too, they work well in Civ games.



Overall to me the game interface is simple enough that everything doesn't need to be pointed out (production queue, how hard can it be?), but it would be nice to some way to get into the game and see what's the logic how things work and where everything is in the beginning.

I couldn't agree more with this. I moreorless understand the game, but there are things that felt like the game needed a hands-on tutorial for.

I've got to agree, brought the Emperor Edition from Steam in anticipation.

Read through the Tutorial and Manual and even on newbie setting, i'm just getting my Ass kicked as I'm not sure what i really need to do.

A play through tutorial would be really helpful.

I've tried looking around the Net for a playthrough guide but there just doesn't seem to be anything, if anyone finds one please post link

My adhd just means I don't have the patience to read the text closely. More often than not I skim the text and realize I don't know what is going on once I've closed it. Having a step by step interactive tutorial does focus more on learning the game, at least for me. Granted, I don't know how much more in depth that is to code, so I understand why they are in text sometimes.

Having it actually show you step-by-step how to do things realtime, or having an advisor tell you you should put x thing on this planet would be nice. Another thing that'd be nice that I didn't see is a way to bring the tutorial text screens up again, maybe having a little help question mark button, as sometimes it's nice to be able to see the text again.

I thought the same, i'm rly new to this kind of games and hoped that the tutorial would teach me how to play, and maybe give some tips.

But all i learned was what everything on the screen meant mostly, not rly how to play and what you should do.

heh problem is for me i am chomping at the bit waiting to get off work and go home and play lol