All my opinion of course, but....



1. I've paid more money for worse games, frequently. Many of them have been so-called "AAA" games, which is why, to me, the concept is largely an irrelevance. What I look for is gameplay, and Endless Space has it in spades.



2. I can't speak for the dev team but I am sure there will be more releases prior to launch. I hope those releases include some bug fixes and support for multiplayer (at which I think Endless Space will excel).



It's a very, very polished alpha. It's not perfect, but I have seen many games in much worse shape on launch.



I haven't read the Steam forums (and tend to try to avoid them), so don't know the context of your comments, but with regard to the battle mechanics, I really like them. They are simple, elegant, and support the style of the game. What they are not is complex real time 3d battles like Shogun or SotS2 (is slowly getting to). It's a personal thing. Complaining about them is a little like complaining about the "battle mechanics" in chess. It's just the way the game works.... As I said I like them. Others' milage may vary, and if somebody needs more detailed / complex battle mechanics to enjoy a game then Endless Space may not be right for them.



3. Yes, they're serious. Whether or not it works, and how well it works, remains to be seen. But I'd much rather spend my money with a small indy games company, with the opportunity to influence the direction of development, than drop it on EA or Blizzard. Each to their own :-).



4. I have no idea at all so can't comment :-).





Lastly, Endless Space simply can't be compared with MOO3.

Would you consider Sins of a Solar Empire to be a "AAA" title? Because it's even more than this one. Or Star Ruler is $19, and this is only a few bucks more, at least with the discount.



There's a progress page showing what they are working on at http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/Progress. That may help. Would be nice to see what they are willing to change in certain areas. It dosen't seem all that reasonable to want to change the combat to real-time, although that may not be what you're asking. There have been alot of people wanting free camera and a bunch of other things that will improve it. If you read those threads, the developers have been posting.



We should definitely see new content before the game release. If you read the progress page and the forum, you'll see they are still working on a lot of things, including some races that aren't completed yet.



Also, with the modding, it looked from that thread that the thing that was still up in the air (more than the rest at least) was the graphical assets, which they are talking to Unity about. The rest looks like they already have an idea on how to have working, like the custom galaxy maps.

1 the game is to cheep from what you are getting

2 Do you know the diffrance between alpha and beta? alpha is unfinsihed not everyting is implemented,beta is bascaly bug and balance fixing everything should be fhinihsed and working.

3 first packeade is just the game and 500 points so youre vote is 5 times in eache g2g question. packed 2 is pay a littel more becuse you just love 4 x games.

4 There is already a modding forum her do you thing they did that for fun?

Strand wrote:
Let's be honest here. Torchlight is cheap because it has to compete with other quality titles in the same genre. Not only that, but the userbase of that genre is generally much larger than the 4X Turn-Based Strategy genre. What AAA titles is Endless Space competing against that might alter their price point? Please, I'm interested.

This is totally false:



1) A: Torchlight became available for digital download on October 27th, 2009 on PC for a price of $20 (US). You can get Torchlight from our site (www.torchlightgame.com), as well as various other digital distributors. http://www.torchlightgame.com/faq/



At that time, there were no other 'Dungeon Crawlers' released that year; Runic Games have always had a similar price point for their releases.



2) No-one has proven that this is an AAA release; at the moment, I see a small time indy dev team with some experience of larger studios. So, they're competing in the indy tide pools or with the smaller teams such as Stardock (and yes, I'm aware that Sins of a Solar Empire newest version costs $39.95, however, the original GalCiv II price was $25 ish). As such, and from the features I've seen (or lack thereof: notably no diplomacy working, and so on) this should not be priced as an AAA title.



3) Price point is never about the # customers you hope to gain; to think that is to ignore the basics of business. The Legend of Grimrock launched for $14.99 and had great success []http://www.grimrock.net/buy/] ~ they were also smart enough to allow you to purchase it straight from them, thus allowing the smart customer to give them cash direct so cutting out Steam's fees [whichare~15-30%].





So, great start there. Failed to answer any of my questions, and managed to provide a totally false bit of smoke & mirrors as an excuse. /fail.





p.s.





I got bored: I've purchased the "Emperor" version. I strongly suspect that the dev team have no idea just how complicated the AI in GalCiv II etc was to code, and I'll probably be massively disappointed. Such is life: perhaps I'll use my 1000 or so "G2G" points to point out their issues. For this price I'm really not in a charitable mood.

1. I'm not going to get deep into the price stuff but when SoaSE came out it was what, 40-50$? And I wouldn't call the vanilla SoaSE a finished product, in fact (and this is a personal opinion) even after Diplomacy it was still pretty shallow. Endless Space is much more fun and much cheaper. Also Runic have had a lot of profit from TL so they can afford to lower the price of TL2, on the other hand Amplitude Studios are self-funded and this is their first game but anyways I don't want to get into senseless arguments on the price, suffice to say Endless Space deserves every cent you're going to spend for it.



2. On the new content, I'm willing to bet there will be new content before release, judging by the progress bar the beta is coming soon so I'm sure the devs have more stuff planned for us to test.

On the what will and what won't change, it's too early to expect that kind of information especially in details. Feedback has just started to be collected, it's been just a week since the alpha became available.



3. Don't take the difference between the packages so seriously. If you want to support as much as you can this new company that's making this awesome game you would go for the Emperor. There isn't a bunch of extra stuff added to the Emperor package compared to the Admiral for the several $ of price difference. It would also be great if you go for the Admiral package instead, the point is to support the devs. There's a poll on the forums which was asking "which package would you go for...?" it was cool not so much to look at who's buying the Emperor and who's getting the Admiral edition (although the Emperor one had quite the lead), but how the third option "I'm not buying either of them" had just a few votes for.

Hiya, 4X! I'm pretty sleepy, and it seems Strand n' Scratch have answered most of your questions, but I thought I'd say welcome and add my two cents as ta why you should give Endless Space a try; even if I am sleepy, sleep can wait until sharing o' good games has ended.



Fer point number one: I can think of quite a few 30-60$ games out there that have entered the market recently, and been satisfying up until the end, only to tail into horribleness, some that have been mediocre all around, and others that have been terrifying abominations before the gods that reek of neglect and deadlines rushed.



Endless Space is none of those games.



Though it certainly has its flaw, what those flaws actually *are* tend to vary from user to user. Everyone seems to have things they want to change; and those are mostly not game *issues* but things that could be added. That, in addition to the modularity of the game, means the game is highly changeable. And what about those issues that are related to the game experience itself? That leads nicely to point two!



Two: I'll have to admit, being a fan of the plotting-card battle method; combat is great. But that's my bias, and it might not be your cup of tea. We've got plenty of good people raising interesting directions about where or how the combat could be changed. And as to the schedule itself? As an Alpha, Endless Space has had more polish than any 4X game I have played at release candidate stage since MOO1 (I felt MOO2 was somewhat buggy at launch, so I'm choosing to skip it over; pretend I chose it if you have more experience with it. ). The game's UI is amazingly crisp, things are very intuitive, and the layout is unencumbered. You ask why you're paying to do a Q/A cycle. I'd ask why more games don't do this; have the players KNOW what they are getting and impact the final product in such a way that both players and developers are satisfied with the outcome. One doesn't enter a relationship with a significant other knowing nothing about one another, and hope it lasts - neither should players jump into a game with naught but a shiny box to sell them on what may just be an overpolished blob of terror. In short - the Alpha is playable, fun, and interesting; all you are missing is multiplayer, touch-ups for the AI and 'universefiller' (random events, several other race/factions, etc) and whatever changes the team may make... And what surprises they may have in store for us.



Three: So far, words with marketing in my life have been counterproductive. I'd be inclined to take anything they say with a grain of salt. That being said - the concept is entirely serious. Though it is not my favored model, I still view corporate democracy as being a mode of democracy, and thus quite good. Many issues that have been mentioned here are addressed rapidly by the Devs - and for faction units, heroes, banners... Those are where the G2G points come in. Depending on your view, it could be pointless, a gimmick, an interesting move, brilliant, or just a choice. As Scratch said - we'll see, won't we? I for one, think it is an excellent idea, wahah!



Four: I'm not too familiar with GalCiv, it not being my cup of black coffee, as t'were. That being said, I'm pretty sure there will be modular, third-party modding for us users, and expansion packs for the game proper. A lot runs in XML, so if you've ever used a spreadsheet, you'll probably be able to throw together a mod! A bit of a tangent, but I suddenly got nostalgic about throwing together doom WADS... Ah, those were the days-



Anyhow. Here's the short form:



- The game is fresh, fun, and interesting. The battles are mostly automated, although with tactical choice. That may not be your preferred method, consider that the rest of the game is what I feel would have happened if MOO3... had been a proper sequel to MOO2. And in actuality, comparing this to that is a bad idea; Endless Space stands well enough on its own. Even as an Alpha. If nothing else I say is important, consider that.



I recognize money is tight and choices are rough, but the community is nice, and the game is good. We hope you give it a try!



Edit: Ninja'd... But you realize that your post accused all of us misleading you... When barely any time had elapsed between your post and folks replying? I recognize you might have gotten bored, but then why did you by it on an impulse? Or ask for advice, for that matter? I'd also point out that love of internet creations aside, this place is not that place, and so I don't think that internet memes are really appropriate... Or that accusing us all of 'fail' and telling us that we fed you smoke and mirrors (again, then why did you buy the game? at this point, you're beginning to sound like someone I know who buys things preconvinced they'll hate them, and then yells about them everywhere they go.)



In the future, it's best to wait a day or two on forums for a response if you're asking for advice. Irregardless of personal boredom, it may help you avoiding course of action you disdain... And blaming others for your haste.

4x_Fan wrote:




I got bored: I've purchased the "Emperor" version. I strongly suspect that the dev team have no idea just how complicated the AI in GalCiv II etc was to code, and I'll probably be massively disappointed. Such is life: perhaps I'll use my 1000 or so "G2G" points to point out their issues. For this price I'm really not in a charitable mood.

I hope youll enjoy the game. This guys have some experiance withe devloping games and i have upgraded the ai several times already. I expexct them to keep twiking the ai for a good long time. Based on the feedback given from the fans, and you i will asume

Hello.



I've been drawn here by the Steam promotion, and I'm a fan of 4x games, as well as loving indy developers.



However, I have some reservations, and would appreciate some answers:



1) Price point. £22.99 / 26.99 is extremely expensive for a non-AAA title. Torchlight II is £14.99 for reference. I understand that the team behind Amplitude studios has industry experience, but I'd suggest that the Torchlight team have a whole lot more. Why is this game so expensive for a studio's first title? Does this price point only include the game? [seepoint#3]



2) Alpha ~ you're running an alpha trial (fully paid), but anticipating a summer launch (2-3 months): are we right to think that there won't be any new content until launch? There's no sticky thread or page on the main web page showing an easy to see 'plan of action'. Perhaps I've missed the obvious. I'd like to know why I'm paying to do a QA cycle if there's nothing more intended for development [i.e.IhaveseenmultiplethreadsontheSteamforumandherewhereannoying'fanboys'havetrolledpeopleraisinglegitimatequestionsoverthebattlemechanics,forone.Aprofessionalsolutionwouldtobetohaveadevelopmentjournal/thread/forumoutliningwhatwillchangeandwhatwon'tchange]. So ~ is combat going to change, at all? Or is it always going to be non-interactive, barring these "cards"?



3) Price variety of package: "500 G2G points". Is this serious? You're rewarding early uptake + extra $ with... virtual points on a forum to discuss the game? So... buying the 'Emperor' edition allows me some virtual "influence points" on an internet forum & a skin/hero that I could probably add myself? [seepoint#4]. Yeah, you might want to have a word with marketing there.



4) Modding / DLC / content packs. What's the plan here? Is the game going to go the GalCiv route & have community modding or purely DLC from the studio? Again, a little more transparency would be great. If there's plans for modding tools, that's awesome; if not... hmm. Edit: I see from https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space/forum/37-modding/thread/15711-endless-space-and-modding that you're essentially waiting on a response from the Unity engine people to respond, barring XML alterations. That'll be a licensing issue then.







Anyhow ~ I hope I get some answers, since the team is obviously pulling some major clout/favours with Steam to get an Alpha release build in there @ such a high price point. If the game is anything close to Moo I/II you've a sale; however the lack of clarity and over-automated battles are making me think of Moo III, and we all know how that went down.

And the tuning section and debug section is at 10%.As you can see there is still way to go,so patience is a virtue,important one too.

4x_Fan wrote:
This is totally false:



1) A: Torchlight became available for digital download on October 27th, 2009 on PC for a price of $20 (US). You can get Torchlight from our site (www.torchlightgame.com), as well as various other digital distributors. http://www.torchlightgame.com/faq/



...



So, great start there. Failed to answer any of my questions, and managed to provide a totally false bit of smoke & mirrors as an excuse. /fail.

I'm sorry you took my response as a personal attack. Your statement in your original post was about Torchlight II, so I assumed that's what you'd be comparing it to, not the original Torchlight.



I also did not try to intimate that Endless Space was a AAA title, I merely asked what titles it was competing against. Right now, as far as I can tell, Endless Space is cheaper than the alternatives.

You're very welcome! Re: AI, it is by and away the most difficult aspect of any game. Oftentimes, it's a matter of thinking dubiously simply; trying to get the AI to respond to something no player would do in a way that seems logical, rather than is logical (especially for 'easy' difficulties). If you're planning to play mostly single player (I am as well) than a good AI is of the highest importance. Since you sound doubtful, what are your main concerns? If you have experience with programming them, throw us some suggestions. From my perspective, a weighted line of choice (what the AI considers important) and a system of 'trust' (affecting how likely the AI is to make/break deals, this alone would fix half the diplomacy options around currently) are good anchors to use on it.



I hope you'll enjoy the game - and that you'll find yourself pleasantly surprised.

I was tempted to do along winded reply, but judging by your posts you are quite uh "opinionated" already. So I'll just give the bare minimum...



1) Price point - you seem to be quibbling over what in reality amounts to a few hours on a parking meter or 1/2 of a lunch out at a fast food place...really? As others have mentioned this game in ALPHA is much better than many on release and if you take the time to find and read the Dev posts and toned down the entitled attitude a bit you would have a more positive outlook.



2) I do agree that they should have more concrete plans in place. At the same time...its been literally a few (working) days since the Alpha began and I am willing to cut them some slack considering their resources and the fact that forum population has more than quadrupled in that time. Again though, much of it IS available in various threads on the forum.... unfortunately it is not centralised.



3) Quite a number of people on the forums wanted a way to support the company above and beyond the retail price for this game. This was their way of giving us something extra that wouldn't cheese off regular (Admiral) orders, if you don't want the "virtual influence" then don't buy the virtual influence???



4) I see you found it.



In general you seem quite negative (and unfortunately un-informed) and I can't get over how you repeatedly mention the "high price point" as if it will cost you more than what some people will lose in the laundry machine this week...



Cheers,

This game still has a ways to go. I may be way off, but it seems like you are expecting the game to be complete right now, since you keep talking about the price point and the current features, as well as diplomacy being broken, etc. The devs appear to be aware of the problems, and they've stated that they are working on it. Unless they are just lying through their teeth, we will see some good improvements. The alpha's only been out for a fairly short time, and already, at least in my opinion, they've got a great group of features and a good game, and it just needs to keep going in its development and bug fixes.

Originally, I thought 4X seemed pretty aggressive, too. Then I thought about it some more (in the time between now and sleep why am I still awake I don't know) and realized it's possible 4X has felt burned before (MOO3, maybe? Although, I'll admit that I still dig it out from time to time.. Not for the gameplay, which was atrocious, but the atmosphere was very nice). So I say we give 'em the benefit of the doubt and let 'em try the game proper! It's done a good job of convincing stodgy old me - and hopefully it'll convince them, too. I think we've addressed most of the points present; the only one I can't think of any more info on is modding, because I've been too busy with work to look at it proper recently... I haven't even tried Remscar's map layout yet. :eek: This weekend. Anyway! We've spoken for the game; I believe it'll speak the rest for itself, and hopefully hook another member under it's spell, wahahaha!

We aren't ES "fanboy" but Endless Space is still in Alpha, not in beta or in gold. And the game has a good potential, many interesting features, many featurs to improve but a good base for a 4x. Remember Sword 2 eh...