Feels like something is missing - Endless Space

Feels like something is missing

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Nimrod

Newcomer

Nimrod

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 14, 2012, 9:29:06 PM

Don't get me wrong i absolutely love this game, but i have this nagging feeling that some part of it is missing, and yes i know its in alpha and I don't care about multiplayer but i can't work out what it is.

I know its not a lot to go on but some suggestions would put my mind at ease and help me sleep at night haha.

It COULD be combat, as much as I love seeing my ships shooting the hell out of each other i don't like how you are not really in control, in my opinion it should be like MOO2 where its turn based moving ships round and firing etc.

What do you guys think, what do you hope to see or feel something is missing?

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Thatcher

Old Survivor

Thatcher

Old Survivor

13 years ago

May 14, 2012, 11:25:35 PM

I feel like the (or at least a group of individual) HP bar(s) for my ships is missing in the battle screen. I don't care for the overall health of my fleet as much as I do individual ships. I have extended family on those ships.. :P

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Solitas

Newcomer

Solitas

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 14, 2012, 11:54:32 PM

Diplomacy
Planetary development
Espionage
Economy

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Deltron3O3O

Newcomer

Deltron3O3O

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 12:06:05 AM

i don't mind the combat, but i'd like to be in control of the camera. sometimes i see nothing but stars or a side of one ship in close up o.0

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Trithemius

Mage

Trithemius the Mage

Trithemius

Mage

13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 12:38:41 AM

I love the combat myself - this is exactly what I want in a strategy game (vs. a tactical game).

I look forward to more options (new kinds of cards) and other gambits or doctrines (formation choices, etc) and really hope the whole "hands-off"/no micro approach to combat stays.

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light487

Newcomer

light487

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 12:53:54 AM

I also like the hands off approach to combat.. and I while wouldn't want it to turn in to a card-trading game with so much complexity it becomes tedious, I would definitely like to see more depth and variety in the cards available... right now it really is just a rock-paper-scissors thing and that doesn't really cut it for this game. In the 1980's and 1990's.. maybe it was enough to do that due to limited space.. but now there's really no need for that kind of limitation.

Combat isn't the only part of the game, it's actually a small part.. however it is integral for it to be more than it currently is to be on par with other titles on the market. There's a very real chance that people will begin to play the game, get frustrated with its limitations and re-intall older, out dated games that should be limited but aren't...

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Zenicetus

Old Timer

Zenicetus

Old Timer

13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 1:20:55 AM

I've barely scratched the surface of the game, but the one big thing I noticed right away was the stripped-down diplomacy system, compared to other 4x games I've played.

Especially on first contact. I don't need big cinematics, but there should be more interaction available on first contact with an alien race, like trading star maps, or trading one very basic tech for another tech or a small amount of Dust... something. First contact would be a huge event, for any spacefaring civilization and it's treated like a ho-hum event here. The later diplomatic interactions seem very limited and mostly focused on warfare.

I know they're working on this. It's just the first thing that caught my eye, maybe because the rest of the game is so polished and playable at this early stage.

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davea

Newcomer

davea

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 3:23:57 AM

So, did you notice that in order to do all these trades, you need to research some techs in the left side of the tree? It is all there. Once you do this, you will notice that most of the AI races don't trade much. The AI *usage* of trade can be improved, but it almost sounds as if you had not discovered the options yet.

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eviliron

Newcomer

eviliron

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 4:23:51 AM

I would say look to Space Empire 4 for some solid diplomacy options (and automation was nice, too), Eve for ship design, scale, and combat. Other than that, aside from bug fixes, I'd guess it's on the right track.

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Zenicetus

Old Timer

Zenicetus

Old Timer

13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 5:47:21 AM

davea wrote:
So, did you notice that in order to do all these trades, you need to research some techs in the left side of the tree? It is all there. Once you do this, you will notice that most of the AI races don't trade much. The AI *usage* of trade can be improved, but it almost sounds as if you had not discovered the options yet.

I've seen how that works, but I think the main issue here is first contact. In the initial colonization phase, I usually have 7 or 8 other techs researched before going more than one layer deep on the left side research tree, and something like Relativistic Markets is 3 levels deep. On a small or medium galaxy map, it's possible to make first contact with another faction before you're very far into that tree.

Part of this is that I'm carrying preconceptions from other games, where there is always at least some minimal level of trading or treaty negotiation when you first meet another faction in the game. It's usually small-scale stuff, but it can make or break a struggling empire that's trying to bootstrap its way out of the home system by selling off valuable assets. It just feels weird to meet your first alien faction, and have nothing to do on the diplomacy screen.

It doesn't have to be trade, either. It could be a mutual non-aggression pact for X number of turns, while you scope each other out. Or an aggressive faction demanding some dust to leave you alone for X turns, that sort of thing. Right now, first contact is just a very dry experience.

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Gargomaxthalus

Broken Heretic

Gargomaxthalus

Broken Heretic

13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 6:24:05 AM

Solitas wrote:
Diplomacy
Planetary development
Espionage
Economy

Yeah that about sums it all up right there. Of course this is probably the only reason I've seen any success, 4Xes are my nemeses.

The whole trade in the background thing would be alright....... if it was completely hidden except for what you can do through diplomacy.

The diplomacy itself is bare bones and the lack of any mechanic that really makes you feel like you connected with the other party (A simple image and some text would be nice, Civ and TW do it) makes totally non- immersive.

Right now you have to much need for a powerful Navy, sending ninja, monks, metsuke, and geisha around destabilizing your enemies is one of the best parts of TW:S2. Espionage is of course simply a big part of 4Xes, even the bit underwhelming Haegmonia had spy ships.

The system development works fine. Developing each planet individually is an out dated mechanic which really doesn't make sense as a Galactic level ruler.

Invasions are handled a bit poorly giving us a few points where we make strategic decisions would be a huge improvement.

Basic ship combat works well, but it would be nice too be able to set up formations so that we can get the most out of the different hulls and weapons. Drawing a blank on the actual names, but I've played games that used kind of a rock-paper-scissors approach to choosing a formation that worked pretty well.

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davea

Newcomer

davea

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 6:41:40 AM

Zenicetus wrote:
I've seen how that works, but I think the main issue here is first contact. In the initial colonization phase, I usually have 7 or 8 other techs researched before going more than one layer deep on the left side research tree, and something like Relativistic Markets is 3 levels deep. On a small or medium galaxy map, it's possible to make first contact with another faction before you're very far into that tree.

Well, any 4x game is about interesting choices. You have chosen to not allow yourself any trade options for a while. You could choose differently. I saw one advanced player who puts the communication subtree absolutely first in his research order:

/#/endless-space/forum/27-general/thread/7715-30-turn-challenge-2-hard-sophon-poor-position

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Kryune

Newcomer

Kryune

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 7:52:29 AM

Diplomacy and espionage for me. I love the formation the ships are in now.

One thing I would like to see later is, if the ships get down to melee mode, we see smaller attack ships (not fighters/bombers) pop out of bigger ships and attach to the enemy vessel.

Also, with the card system, perhaps make them range-specific (I'm sure that's been brought up).

Seriously, if you can make a strong A.I. in diplomacy, as in, the A.I. won't fluctuate between different friendly names every couple of turns, ask you for assistance and pay you for it (even going so far as tech or planets), and stay relatively true to their race alignment. I will be glad to spread the word about that achievement to any and all gamers.

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Sharp

Newcomer

Sharp

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 11:47:42 AM

I'm missing more options - like system bombardment (destroy a colony - also some invents for this, killing habitants, destroying structures on planets - sometimes it is important to destroy something in a battle rather than to capture it...) - not just invade (and even some more strategic options for invasion). More options for a battle - maybe something as you guys said - more cards, some formations and other strategy options (with pausing the battle probably to have a time to think properly about the situation on the battlefield), health of every ship not just of whole army - add little more MOO style :-) I also find the camera movements are sometimes unusable in combats (allow some kind of free camera movment with arrows or something) - I do not see ships I would like to etc (to close to ship camara). Also somehow intercept fleets in a deep space - not only on systems?

In a one sentence: More strategic options in fleet fighting and system attacks (for me personaly if the cost for more strategy features will be less graphics effects in a battle - no problem :-)), this is what I'm missing from the old times games like MOO.

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davea

Newcomer

davea

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 2:45:15 PM

I strongly agree about ground combat. There are several threads on this. I have not updated it, but this thread contains links to all the threads I have found:

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13319-suggestion-achievable-ground-combat

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seeess

Newcomer

seeess

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 2:49:25 PM

Nimrod wrote:
It COULD be combat, as much as I love seeing my ships shooting the hell out of each other i don't like how you are not really in control, in my opinion it should be like MOO2 where its turn based moving ships round and firing etc.

It probably is combat, I miss it aswell. I don't like that we can't build structures on planets, either. (I haven't played much yet, so I'm not really sure about the latter.

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