My point is that if a race premade or player genrated got start tech shouldent they get the resource needed? If I built Craven my self in the race builder I rather pich a start trait I could use from start.

Any thoughts on this?

Well obviously no. Just because you have a technology, it does not mean that you have the raw materials to utilize the technology. Look at the real world and the reason why wars are waged?



Look at war from a philosophical standpoint. War is the fight for territory ( resources ), based on economic gain.

I want to see it in an oposit way though. How can they test the tech if there was resources there in the first place? So when a tech gives you understanding of new resources and u find some then it would be possible to experiment with them. Just saying

I'd have to agree with Swede on this one. If a starting tech specifically calls for a "discovery" that requires a "rare" element, that element would have to be present on the homeworld as well - with the added costs if deemed necessary.



Otherwise It'd be like figuring out the atomic bomb in theory without having any actual field tests to prove the concept. "Science fiction" as you'd call it.

I assumed that they have the barest amounts needed to test and development equipment, but not enough to use it in large-scale production. That, or through research they simply discover these new resources. Like how we didn't realize some of the particles and subatomic particles that are discussed now in physics until they were found in experiments.



EDIT: For example, in terms of the nuclear bomb mentioned by Mansen, the weapon couldn't be developed until technology got to the point where the isotope uranium-235 was able to be discovered, made, and utilized.

Think of it as being available in small quantities with a valid theory behind it but not enough quantity or cost-effectiveness to take advantage of. For instance, take carbon nanotubes in real life. We can make them but not enough and not effectively to really do anything with yet.

I never thought of it like that. The limited supply being just enough for research, but not empirewide mass production makes great sense. I (happily) stand corrected

I agree with the need for base materials to allow full scale production of something, but wouldn't all the resulting techs need this too? if missle level 1 needs titanium 70, shouldn't level 2, 3, 4 etc need it or somethign similar? Maybe I am jumping the gun, but I think it should work that way.

Mansen wrote:
I never thought of it like that. The limited supply being just enough for research, but not empirewide mass production makes great sense. I (happily) stand corrected

Slar wrote:
I agree with the need for base materials to allow full scale production of something, but wouldn't all the resulting techs need this too? if missle level 1 needs titanium 70, shouldn't level 2, 3, 4 etc need it or somethign similar? Maybe I am jumping the gun, but I think it should work that way.

Good thing it does not. There are starts where there is no T-70 around at all. This is a "pain" but not fatal with the current tech tree. You cannot build tier 1 missiles or cruisers. I think it makes sense that advances in technology can remove the need for materials. For example, a modern train can be run without coal, which was needed on earlier trains.

Slar wrote:
I agree with the need for base materials to allow full scale production of something, but wouldn't all the resulting techs need this too? if missle level 1 needs titanium 70, shouldn't level 2, 3, 4 etc need it or somethign similar? Maybe I am jumping the gun, but I think it should work that way.

Not necessarily. The initial development might, but stronger version from there on may be improvements that no longer need the rare resource, but can be made from more commonly available ones. Or the tech is refined to the point where, while it still uses the resource, much more can be done with much less, making the need to have large quantities of the resource on-hand not as important.



This is just my opinion and interpretation, I'm by no means an expert on how weapon technology works.

Slar wrote:
I agree with the need for base materials to allow full scale production of something, but wouldn't all the resulting techs need this too? if missle level 1 needs titanium 70, shouldn't level 2, 3, 4 etc need it or somethign similar? Maybe I am jumping the gun, but I think it should work that way.

Within a given line of tech, you could just assume increasingly efficient use of the resource as you move through the tree, or a new tech that replaces it.



For example, aluminum was a scarce enough strategic resource in WW2 to require civilian recycling programs, and a forced closing of non-essential industries that used it. After the war, the production methods for aluminum became much more efficient (largely due to increased availability of electricity), so it was no longer considered a scarce strategic resource. Aluminum is now being replaced by other tech like composite materials for aircraft. The "later tier" of modern fighters and drones aren't using the same stuff that unlocked that line of technology.

I don't want to see the system change to give free resource access on any given race.



Fighting for resources is a real reason to fight.

i think that resource requirements should exist for all subsequent techs in a tree. furthermore i think that all weapon/defencive techs should have a resource requirement.



this would make resources very important when expanding not only in where you expand but why. perhaps you see titanium (needed for advanced missiles and cruisers) in a constalation near the hisso and some isotopes (needed for battleships and advanced flak) near the cravers. you (the player) are given a strategic choice.



1. go for the titanium, risk war with hisso, get cruisers for fast invasion, get missiles to dominate low hp corvets/destroyers. alow cravers to get flack and battleships/expand.



2. go for isotopes, engaged in inevitable war with carvers, slow/stop craver expansion, get flak (countering the missiles that the hisso will get from titanium but useless against carvers), get battleships.



3. go for both, war on two fronts. big weapon/ship supireority pay off, drain resources, likely unable to field new tech quickly if two wars are costly



4. let hisso get titanium, trade for it.



5. expand elsewhere.go for kinetic/lazer techs come back later with a bigger if perhaps less technologicly superior force



6. forced to go into a none military victory strat.



THAT is interesting. that is a choice i want the oportunity to make. as the system stands i can resurch past resource requirements in 5 turns. you can even resurch the missile tech which doesn't require titanium before the one that does depending on how you go through the tree.



as for all you rationalists who are being all logical about resource requirements... i am not going to argue in hypothetical i will only say---> this is a strategy game, what is the most appropriate choice concerning resource requirements in terms of supplying the most interesting, engaging, challenging, fun game-play.



i will suggest to you that that choice is persistent resource requirements for connected techs.