Mansen wrote:
No you cannot - if you are running it without steam you are a pirate (or at the very least a cracked exe user). The game is tightly locked to Steamworks.



(If by without steam you mean without internet connection by running steam if offline mode fair enough - completely different thing)

Just a side note: Not all Games offered on Steam do require Steam to run to start/play them - some just will run fine without starting Steam first if you use the executable (or a link to it) instead of the Steam shortcut. Also ES does require Steam to be running

tmouse wrote:
I really didn't intend to start anti-DRM / anti-pirate discussion here but since you asked....

I might be conservative but I do enjoy taking 5-8 years old game from a shelf (or harddrive) and installing it without asking myself questions such:



a) is the original company that created game still around?

b) did activation protocol change so I have to update to properly activate?

c) do i have internet to do so (e.g. outage)?

d) is the activation service still running or went bancrupt/crashed? (happened a few times)

e) do I remember login/pass to the service?

f) is the email i used to register still valid, which one is it?

g) how do I prove I bought the game if i don't remember above?

h) am I at all allowed to give the game to a friend?



and of course, on principle, I don't want to be treated as a pirate if I buy the game.



ps. there are examples of drm-free sucessfull games, for older titles gog.com is good example (I'm not afiliated )

ps2. some registration / key for online play / updates is OK with me, I just want to be able to play without asking anyone.

I, like most people, dont ever play a game that old (again).

I suppose some are valid enough reasons, but if i were you i dont think i would make it that big a problem. digital distribution is the actually not even the future, its the present, its just the old physical distribution that needs to die out first.

i realize there are distribution platforms that arent as demanding as steam, but thats obviously why steam is preferred by game producers, they like to get paid for their product, and steam ensures just that (without being much hassle).

JamieK81 wrote:
There is this thing called 'offline mode' it works fine for civ5, the only games that won't work are specifically online games, like left4dead, you won't get the full functionality in offline mode, i honeslty don't see a problem with online authentication, i prefer it actually, as long as i can authenticate it as often as i want with no limits, CD/DVDs get scratched, then you got to buy another freaking copy....nah, digital is the way of the future.

Friend - friend - Look at what you quoted... I am serious.

activating once through Steam is a hell of a lot more convenient than trying to dig out a CD every time I want to play. In fact, I've re-bought many games that I already own on disc just for the extra convenience. I play often when my internet goes down without a single issue.



Also, Amazons download service is a joke. I buy digital games on Amazon only if I can activate through Steam.

JamieK81 wrote:
There is this thing called 'offline mode' it works fine for civ5, the only games that won't work are specifically online games, like left4dead, you won't get the full functionality in offline mode, i honeslty don't see a problem with online authentication, i prefer it actually, as long as i can authenticate it as often as i want with no limits, CD/DVDs get scratched, then you got to buy another freaking copy....nah, digital is the way of the future.

Offline mode is a joke. You have to know a head of time you are going offline and have an internet connection to set it to offline mode. So playing on a whim at the train station or during a power outage is a no go. And most DLC and many mods do not work during offline mode. civ5 is a game that i feel needs a lot of support, particularly in UI and is neigh unplayable without modification. Digital Distribution is fine. Steam is Fine..constant online verification is not kool. In Steam's case developers are given an option how intrusive Steam will be..Devs who opt for the full and constant Big Brother is watching service deserve the wrath of the gamer community. Dont blame Steam when developers ink a deal that puts the $paper$ and not gamers best interests first

Not many have second computers just for that purpose.



I wouldn't say steam is an ideal solution. The ideal would be people not pirating games, and everyone being fair with each other. Us being human, though, I find it a more than adequate solution. Not perfect for everyone, but imo, it works well and is convenient with a lot of bonuses to players.

Plutoman wrote:
The downfalls: running a single program on my computer that's less intensive than others like MSN, Skype, etc (and those use just as much personal information as steam).

All my IM programs (except skype, I should move skype over too) are on my laptop, to my left. This way I can game and still respond to IMs without needing to minimize.

Steam is the most viable method of protecting first-day sales while providing benefits to customers.



You get a LOT of benefits - and developers get a lot, too - imagine trying to find Endless Space in a retail store. They would be a bankrupt group right now. It's not feasible without the digital distribution, and steam's distribution allows them to focus on the game, rather than focus on marketing, trying to distribute it themselves, etc.



Endless Space is nigh inseparable from Steamworks, I'd imagine. Many games designed into the steam integration are. You can play offline mode easily enough.



I used to be anti-steam, but after being forced into it with Skyrim, I grew to like it after months of using it. I stuck in offline mode for the first 5 months or so, but after branching out I've not regretted it. It's easy to use, the sales are good, the easy access to games is great. The downfalls: running a single program on my computer that's less intensive than others like MSN, Skype, etc (and those use just as much personal information as steam).

Mansen wrote:
No you cannot - if you are running it without steam you are a pirate (or at the very least a cracked exe user). The game is tightly locked to Steamworks.



(If by without steam you mean without internet connection by running steam if offline mode fair enough - completely different thing)

There is this thing called 'offline mode' it works fine for civ5, the only games that won't work are specifically online games, like left4dead, you won't get the full functionality in offline mode, i honeslty don't see a problem with online authentication, i prefer it actually, as long as i can authenticate it as often as i want with no limits, CD/DVDs get scratched, then you got to buy another freaking copy....nah, digital is the way of the future.

evilknight23 wrote:
I do agree it is bogus you have to be online to play but in most cases if you dont have internet then u probably dont have power either unless you live in BFE.

You dont actually have to be online, you just have to have run steam once online. I can turn my internet off mid game and nothing happens. Or disable my internet and start the game. Its a serious misunderstanding a lot of people seem to have about steam.

evilknight23 wrote:


Anyone remember that rts game that came out a few years ago (Name escapes me) and its launched failed because of pirates only a small fraction of the people on their servers were people with valid cd keys the rest were pirates and it was a huge number too. I can't blame people for being broke and still needing to feed their habits but that was alittle extreme.

Im guessing you are referring to the moba, Demigod by gas powered games, published by Stardock, another awesome indie publisher like amplitude, very similar attitude to games and the forums. That didnt actually fail due to pirates on the servers, if you didnt have a legit key you couldnt get on. But the game did check for updates and stuff online and basically ended up ddosing their servers by accident due to the utterly ridiculous volume of pirate copies. Stardock has the opinion that a pirate is not a lost sale and theres no point fighting them. Which is great, but kinda backfired that time.

again there are work arounds man. you get treated like a pirate when ask for non drm versions of the game lol. companies are just trying to protect their investments, although diablo 3 is way over board (I have the phyiscal cd). Steam is a viable delivery method that that pleases both sides to some extent. I do agree it is bogus you have to be online to play but in most cases if you dont have internet then u probably dont have power either unless you live in BFE. Anyone remember that rts game that came out a few years ago (Name escapes me) and its launched failed because of pirates only a small fraction of the people on their servers were people with valid cd keys the rest were pirates and it was a huge number too. I can't blame people for being broke and still needing to feed their habits but that was alittle extreme. Like I said before just explore the internet im sure you will find something. Also its PPS (posr post script) lol I read it and was like wtf does ps2 have to do with the price of tea in china, then my brain backfired and i got it lol I work thirds can ya tell.

Well this would lead them to support Steam with their money also...

Civ 5 is not one of them Sognar - I just so happen to know this from experience. I never said anything about steam games in general if you'd read it again.

I couldn't find out as information on website is sketchy.



Can I get the game without any DRM? Like on gog.com?



I'd gladly buy it, but not from any Steam like service that requires you to install custom clients / validate over the internet.



Please say it's possible / direct me to a shop that will sell it to me.

Valazzar wrote:
I've really been trying to think of a good, non pirate, reason why you would want this.

I cant think of any except if you don't have an internet connection (on the machine you are intending to play on).

Do explain?

I really didn't intend to start anti-DRM / anti-pirate discussion here but since you asked....

I might be conservative but I do enjoy taking 5-8 years old game from a shelf (or harddrive) and installing it without asking myself questions such:



a) is the original company that created game still around?

b) did activation protocol change so I have to update to properly activate?

c) do i have internet to do so (e.g. outage)?

d) is the activation service still running or went bancrupt/crashed? (happened a few times)

e) do I remember login/pass to the service?

f) is the email i used to register still valid, which one is it?

g) how do I prove I bought the game if i don't remember above?

h) am I at all allowed to give the game to a friend?



and of course, on principle, I don't want to be treated as a pirate if I buy the game.



ps. there are examples of drm-free sucessfull games, for older titles gog.com is good example (I'm not afiliated )

ps2. some registration / key for online play / updates is OK with me, I just want to be able to play without asking anyone.

There are good reasons to want to go "DRM Free" but see, the thing is, IMO, Steam is DRM free.



Why? Because Steam provides me with services, despite tying those games to my computer (which, actually, it's not, it's tied to my steam account, which I can then use on any PC ever). And I am willing to take the small amount of DRM that Steam is in order to get the advantages of Steam. It's when games include other DRM that I get riled up (see: From Dust).

tmouse wrote:
I couldn't find out as information on website is sketchy.



Can I get the game without any DRM? Like on gog.com?



I'd gladly buy it, but not from any Steam like service that requires you to install custom clients / validate over the internet.



Please say it's possible / direct me to a shop that will sell it to me.

I've really been trying to think of a good, non pirate, reason why you would want this.

I cant think of any except if you don't have an internet connection (on the machine you are intending to play on).

Do explain?

Mansen wrote:
No you cannot - if you are running it without steam you are a pirate (or at the very least a cracked exe user). The game is tightly locked to Steamworks.



(If by without steam you mean without internet connection by running steam if offline mode fair enough - completely different thing)

He has internet connection if he is posting on here.... Most games now have DRM protection because of the piracy level. How ever DRM rarely interferes with game play (althou it can be a pain in the ass to install). A why would you want a non drm verison anyway???? pirate...lol Now as far as having it cracked so you dont have to put the cd in (cuz im way too lazy) I have done that and im sure almost every pc gamer has as well. everything has a work around that some one with way to much time on their hands has come up with, you just have to look



Edit: Even if you have the cd version of the game it has DRM protection....

Shivetya wrote:
can you play without connecting to steam? I can play Civ5 without Steam...

No you cannot - if you are running it without steam you are a pirate (or at the very least a cracked exe user). The game is tightly locked to Steamworks.



(If by without steam you mean without internet connection by running steam if offline mode fair enough - completely different thing)

Mansen wrote:
Not possible due to the way the game is being published - any version you buy will be tied to Steam. Even if you managed to seperate the two, you'd have nowhere to get patches for the game as they are deployed over steam.

Well, at least I know now.

I do acknowledge benefits of Steam, I just want to be able to install a game I bought without any online connection, CD in drive (!) or other obstacle. Just like the pirates do.



I'll wait then for non-Steam edition, someday, hopefully there will be...