[Discussions] Sophonos +45% research bonus, really a penalty?

Kruos

Old Craver

26 600g2g pts

12 years ago

May 9, 2012, 10:12:38 PM

Improvise -> Adapt -> Dominate

VIPInFlamesWeTrust

Officer

Do not fight the Harmony. You will be brought into our Harmony.

VIPInFlamesWeTrust

Officer

15 100g2g pts

12 years ago

May 13, 2012, 2:07:04 PM

StK wrote:
As I wrote in my Discussion thread about the Sophons (I have no Idea where it went.. it should be somewhere here in suggestions), the race is insanely strong on smaller maps and when you manage to apply pressure early ... if you don't start pushing early on and the other races manage to get into their lategame without you having a good advantage by then you might be screwed.

But just apply pressure early and everything will crumble beneath the mighty fish-ships

That's how I win with them, you get an early lead in tech and therefore ship strength. I won a game yesterday with them and by turn 70, I owned half the map! It was only on normal difficulty though.

StK

Newcomer

StK

Newcomer

300g2g pts

12 years ago

May 13, 2012, 2:02:55 PM

As I wrote in my Discussion thread about the Sophons (I have no Idea where it went.. it should be somewhere here in suggestions), the race is insanely strong on smaller maps and when you manage to apply pressure early ... if you don't start pushing early on and the other races manage to get into their lategame without you having a good advantage by then you might be screwed.

But just apply pressure early and everything will crumble beneath the mighty fish-ships

MaterialDefender

Newcomer

MaterialDefender

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 13, 2012, 12:33:00 PM

I think the biggest reason I like the Sophons is because their colony module is half price. So they can build colony ships much, much faster and at much greater numbers provided enough population. I've honestly never had problems with the SOphons. Trying to adapt to taking 5 turns to build a colony ship instead of 2-3 has been a much bigger hassle.

samboy29

Newcomer

samboy29

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 13, 2012, 11:42:49 AM

I personally find the Sophons the hardest raceto play / they are the race I do the worst at. Although personally I found my troubles stemmed more from the increased production cost for planetary improvements (I have aggressively expansionistic). Combined with the Sophon's comparatively weak combat racials (ships cost more to build and they get no bonuses) I tend to find myself in hot water a fair bit.

Not convinced that the Sophon's are underpowered, but they certainly require a different play style to what I prefer.

UE is probably my best class, as I love the +40% ship hp and bonus to dust (allows me to get enough money to almost fully upgrade a new colony so that it is at full efficiency in a just a few turns.)

fixou

Newcomer

fixou

Newcomer

20 400g2g pts

12 years ago

May 13, 2012, 10:02:09 AM

i played hissho just after playing sophons and i had a harder time with sophons as their ships are weak compare to more warfarer races, even with the research bonus. didn't give a go to horatio and cravers yet to compare.

LordReynolds

Newcomer

LordReynolds

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 13, 2012, 8:15:54 AM

it really helps to have as much dust income as possible so you can BUYout needed improvements.

Focusing on sci conversion is, imho, detrimental. you already make good headway so no reason to cripple yourself just to be weeny bit faster.

TNSe

Newcomer

TNSe

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 13, 2012, 7:43:14 AM

After playing some more games with Sophons, I think I must have had a poor start in the first 2 runs. Also, trying to entirely focus on tech gets you in bigger problems than you need. Instead you should try to just let the tech come and focus on your weaker parts it seems.

PyroVortex

Newcomer

PyroVortex

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 10, 2012, 4:01:20 AM

Never had any problem with economy to use my tech as Sophons. Also tend to run my Dust revenue near zero. Incidentally, the Sophons also have the cheapest colony ships...

Vhaidren

Newcomer

Vhaidren

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 10, 2012, 3:25:45 AM

Horatio are better than Sophons I think... their economic edge helps them build-up so quickly that they can easily match a sophon player's tech AND have a stellar econ to actually USE their tech.

Cravers are still the best ATM.

lyravega

Newcomer

lyravega

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 10, 2012, 2:50:50 AM

MarcParis wrote:
I'm curious about Sophons. I'm sure I need to adapt my gameplay that is mainly based on expansion..

I'll try them next.

If you are specializing new systems in "food" production, Sophon will insist on building research exploitations all over the place...

TNSe

Newcomer

TNSe

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 9, 2012, 7:08:48 PM

I tried playing with Sophonos, and they are in my opinion the bottom one right now.

Ironically, it almost seems like their +45% research bonus is the culprit. In order to excel, they need to stay ahead in tech, which often means actually building that tech. That gives you upkeep costs and takes valuable time. So basically, in order to be ahead, you get so behind on directed production, you can end up not getting enough systems in the beginning. Also they have increased cost of buildings which further makes this problematic.

I'm not sure how I would go around fixing this, but more population early might help out some. It is clearly a balancing issue which I hope to see improved soon.

PyroVortex

Newcomer

PyroVortex

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 9, 2012, 10:03:42 PM

Every time I look at the list of races, I can't figure out why I'd want to play any race other than the Sophons... my play style is entirely about tech, and even with the +45%, I find that my research still isn't fast enough to keep up with production. Granted, if they give us access to custom races, I'm likely to customize one to make that issue even more pronounced (I don't really mind leaving my systems on Ind-Sci conversion all the time).

I would much rather have a penalty to ship construction than to improvement construction, though; 70% of my time is spent building improvements.

madgiraf

Newcomer

madgiraf

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 9, 2012, 9:24:54 PM

I think for my part that races are quite balanced, I played mostly as sophons, cravens and humans, tried a couple of games as hissho and horatio. Had no major difficulties nor any feeling of being either overpowered in any game I've played. Of course this depending a bit on my luck with homeworld, surrounding systems, how close I was from others, if I had a wormhole near that I could use to lock my territory with... But having tried most settings many times, I think races are quite balanced. Usually ended up at similar power around the same turns no matter the race I've started with.

MarcParis wrote:
I'm curious about Sophons. I'm sure I need to adapt my gameplay that is mainly based on expansion..

I'll try them next.

Somehow you have to adapt your gamepay I think yes, but not drastically. Basically you start with more techs and research new ones quicker. For the rest Sophons are average, but they can still play as expansionists or militarists. I would say there is like 30% requirement to adapt to the race, and 70% to the environnement (starting system, surrounding systems, proximity of AI, etc.).

MarcParis

Newcomer

MarcParis

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 9, 2012, 9:22:43 PM

I'm curious about Sophons. I'm sure I need to adapt my gameplay that is mainly based on expansion..

I'll try them next.

Kruos

Old Craver

Kruos

Old Craver

26 600g2g pts

12 years ago

May 9, 2012, 9:06:57 PM

Also, keep in mind guys that the planet quality of the starting area has a huge impact, more than a possible unbalance in my humble opinion.

That being said, it is quite impossible to have every races perfectly equal and balanced. I would even say that unbalance is part of the fun. As far from my 35h+ experience with the alpha, I would say that the balance, if not perfect, is already quite good, and very enjoyable.

Back to the OP subject, I am not sure that Sophons are so unpowered that they would need a boost. As I said the starting conditions have a huge impact, and with the right conditions and management Sophons can really become the antarians of the universe (MoO2 reference), there tech speed is sooo fast!

DuddBudda

Newcomer

DuddBudda

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 9, 2012, 8:13:41 PM

zdesert wrote:
describes how I have won all my games with Sophons

also, I make sure my systems are almost completely ecstatic by rotating ind→dust conversion while building improvements elsewhere

(only played with sophons, three games, won on normal, hard and serious)

TNSe

Newcomer

TNSe

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 9, 2012, 7:25:53 PM

Yes, but try doing this with the other races, all except UE excel at this in an incomparable manner.

ArrowLance

Newcomer

ArrowLance

Newcomer

200g2g pts

12 years ago

May 9, 2012, 7:25:21 PM

Just sounds like you aren't managing your resources in a targeted way.

zdesert

Dust

zdesert

Dust

16 800g2g pts

12 years ago

May 9, 2012, 7:22:47 PM

i dominate all the time as sophon's, i fill up my constellation and focus economy and peace, (which seems easy with sophons as long as cravers aren't your neighbours). i build enough ships to not look pathetic, slow expansion means i look less threatening than expansionist empires and my tech shoots through the roof. send scouts throughout the galaxy and get trade going with everyone (big boost to tec and dust) once you have the tech lead/a neighbour gets involved in a loosing war. crank up the military machine buy/upgrade ships with your saved dust reserves and send your hyper advanced invasion fleet to take there capitol (which will already be developed and ready to produce your finely crafted machines of war) after that it is very hard to slow your momentum. constantly conquering planets and wildly growing tech advantage.