I see why it is this way (CP limits and all that), and I don't mind (since more fleets mean even if you lose, you second fleet attacks the enemy remainder). However, I would like the option of choosing which fleets to attack (and which of mine defend) if at all possible. I've had times where I couldn't attack a major enemy fleet because a third race's scout popped in on that turn and my fleet chose to attack it instead of the threat...

davea wrote:
it would be really nice if multiple tiny enemy fleets, such as scouts, were automatically collected into one fleet so I could wipe them out at once.

Isn't already the case? In my last game, I frequently encountered tiny fleets (1CP) and were surprised to se two ships during the battle (I never let the computer led a battle except against scouts and colony ships). After the battle both tiny enemy fleets were wiped out.



And about massive, way over the CP limit, battles I'm 100% with you. That should not be !

tmparis wrote:
However, I would like the option of choosing which fleets to attack (and which of mine defend) if at all possible.

Well… I don't totally disagree but there is a catch:

If your able to pick your target, what prevents your opponent to do so? And there goes any way to protect your reinforcement fleet or colony ships you intended to protect.



However I agree it's most inconvenient to see your 23CP fleet attacking a infortunate scout passing by instead of your original target, this dreadful 11CP fleet.

In order to prevent THAT, I suggest some behavioral options like attack this specific empire.

However, I would like the option of choosing which fleets to attack (and which of mine defend) if at all possible.

I think the addition of a "flee \ leave system" next to the auto or manual option on the attack notification screen would mitigate this issue as well as some others.

I don't mind the AI trying to pick on my smaller fleet (it's a wise choice) as long as i have the option to try to run away leaving the big boys to handle the situation should the AI continue.

Make it a hero trait - give him 25/50 percent chance to assemble and command a fleet of ships (ignoring CP, or adding a bonus to it for the duration of a battle so while not all the ships would be used you could still use bigger than normal fleets) to defend a planet. The ships chosen for the would be random while their sizes would be balanced accordingly - biggest ships 1 in the fleet, smaller 2/3, then 4/5 then 6/7 and so on. So we'd have one flagship and a number of smaller/other ships with the smallest ones having the highest chance of being chosen for the Emergency Defence Fleet.





Also, you guys need some imagination. Don't think of it as 1fleet vs 1 fleet while the others watch, instead try to see it this way - each turn is a year of game's time so you could say that after one battle, a fleet is taking repairs while the other is defending, or if that doesn't make your fancy, see it as multiple battles in the system at the same time over a great distance, hence you can't use all your ships for one battle.

I always hate it when I have like 6 fleets in a system and an enemy places 3 fleets in it and we have a series of battles of 1 fleet vs 1 fleet. I feel like if I outnumber his fleets by 2-1 I should be able to take advantage of those numbers properly and not have them sitting in line.



Can we not have it so you can face two fleets with one or vice versa at least or be able to have battles involving all fleets on both sides? I am a huge Total War series fan and I always remember the reinforcing army system where reinforcements would march in from the edge of the map and you could move them to help you.

Hollow wrote:
What if the additional fleets provided a reduced power bonus. The primary fleet is being attacked, the next largest fleet provides 75% strength, the next provides 50%, then 25% and possibly then 0% thereafter. Or put a minimum of something like 10%. This should provide a clear bonus for having several fleets available for support, but not so much that players can openly circumvent the CP system by stacking fleets.



To combat the additional bonuses from defenders you'd need to give attackers the same boosts though.

I like this idea a lot. I think it is a good way of at least partially solving the issue without circumventing the CP and balance of the game too much.

Yes, I totally agree, either allow fleet to stack, or allow mutli fleets engage at the battle eat one time. One would warp in one side another warp in at another angle.

I like the idea, however I agree that is destroys the reason for CP. Instead how about fleet stacking occurs only at systems you control while using the defense option so that it now makes it harder to take a system where multiple fleets are stationed. Also make it such that all fleets in the system must be destroyed before siege progression is made.

YMMV, but I really like the CP limit. I only wish that multiple tiny fleets, especially scouts, could be swept up and attacked together so I do not have to split off one destroyer for each one.

For getting aroudn the CP limit, maybe have it that you can only have a certain amout of ships engaging at any one time. If your running low on ships, there could be a card that pulls some re-enforcements in and all that.

At the end of combat, even if you lose the battle, the system is still contested. Next turn, the battle starts again with whatever remaining ships you both have and keeps going until one side retreats or dies.

If this was the case, you should have the option to decide at the start of combat what ships are being sent into the fray. That would make things much more managable.

Space is big just think of the separate battles as fleet engagements across the sector. Having more fleets means you can whittle away a superior force but never have overwhelming firepower which admittedly does suck a bit. A hero trait would be nice.

I dislike CP limit. Imo, I think it breaks the interest of FIDS and it causes logical problems as for fleets placed in queue.



It would be easier to abandon this artificial limit and work on balancing the production of fleets and resources consumed.

Dysenious wrote:
For getting aroudn the CP limit, maybe have it that you can only have a certain amout of ships engaging at any one time. If your running low on ships, there could be a card that pulls some re-enforcements in and all that.

At the end of combat, even if you lose the battle, the system is still contested. Next turn, the battle starts again with whatever remaining ships you both have and keeps going until one side retreats or dies.

If this was the case, you should have the option to decide at the start of combat what ships are being sent into the fray. That would make things much more managable.

As for now, the Dysenious proposition appears to me as the most satisfying.



We shouldn't forget the raison d'être of the Command Points (CP). It represents the ability for a commander (helped by technological advance) to control his ships (and their personnel).

And so I totally disagree with the statement of Hornpipe. CP are a vital element of the game which force us to consider our strategy in the conception of our fleets.

Its a matter of convenience rather then the CP limit as if i have 12 20CP fleets against the enemys 20 15cp fleets i'd much rather engage in one go rather then piece meal. Its going to get tedious as hell even with auto resolve.



It should be like SotS's battle system, either side can choose to mass attack with all available fleets or scatter and engage a fleet at a time. To ensure the system isent abused have 3 options, Scatter, Normal, and Mass Attack. If you choose scatter and your enemy chooses mass attack then roll some dice and throw in a variable on both fleets and whoever wins gets the choice they want so if that bastard is trying to wear you out with battle after battle he cant win every time.



Massed fleet combat should literally be a reinforcement pool and normal combat, if a ship is lost in combat then reinforcements should enter the field to fill your CP up. They forfeit the combat turn they arrive in so if they arrive during the laser phase they shoot their lasers during the missile phase. Combat lasts longer so you'd be able to see all 3 phases and cards that are overpowered like emergency shelter now arent so hot as the ships destroyed remain on field not allowing you reserves. Its easy to have a primary fleet and hero choice at the start of combat for each player.

We shouldn't forget the raison d'être of the Command Points (CP). It represents the ability for a commander (helped by technological advance) to control his ships (and their personnel).

And so I totally disagree with the statement of Hornpipe. CP are a vital element of the game which force us to consider our strategy in the conception of our fleets.

I disagree with this. One man who can command ten is able to control hundreds. Read the Treaty of Five Rings from Musashi. CP is purely artificial.



I believe removing CP promotes strategy. Without CP, the player must do a choice between flexible management with several weak fleets and few powerful fleets with difficulties in controlling the field. He must gauge his combinations and adapt to those of the enemy.



It's my opinion, anyway.

Its odd really, if I'm reading the philosophy/intent of CP in ES right, it should reflect the presence of only one fleet in the system at any given time up to the CP limit?



There should never be more Fleets "stacked to engage all together" in a system at the same time whose combined CP is over the limit set out by the Technology of the Faction they belong to.



Otherwise CP is pointless and frustrating when you can create Stacks anyway and multiple Fleets metaphorically lined up with baseball bats to beat the other kids on the block in an orderly queue.



What should happen is:

1) You choose any excess to remain in the "Hanger" of the system, selecting up to your maximum CP for your "Action" Fleet to hold station there and engage for any battles/perform other activities like invasion etc.



2) If a Battle presents itself you should have a chance to access your "Hanger" and adjust up to your maximum CP limit the Fleet you want to have engage the enemy. Then commence the Battle.



3) If you lose the Battle, any shipping remaining in the "Hanger" is automatically sent enroute to a friendly star system of your choosing, automatically reforming in that system's Hanger for future use. You could have the added flexibility of being able to "star burst" your retreating fleets too across multiple friendly systems so long as there were multiple lines of travel presented (unless you have the higher engine tech to just go "off-road"). This could introduce a "Diplomacy Boardgame" style game "Bounce" which can reflect on the disparity of Technology and Shipping selection/fortunes of war thus really adding to MP PvP games and make for interesting strategies and tactics in ES.



This way you could send in waves of "Fleets" from your Hangers across multiple systems with the intent to enforce a "no fly zone" without the need for breaking the intent of the CP system with the added flexibility of forming a strategy to meet the specific engagements that could show up in the system.



The Hanger could therefore also act like a Drag n Drop Box for move orders where CP would never factor at all giving the same flexibility as what is already happening in the Alpha atm. Thus in this way you hold Shift + Click and drag shipping you choose to an "Embark" Box which shows up as an icon on the star map that you then send off on its way across the galaxy to fill up another system's Hanger so long as the map movement rules are obeyed.



Hope this makes some sense.

I think I may just be repeating what others have said, but would some kind of combat width system be viable, where you're not limited in how many ships your fleet can contain, but your CP determines how many of those ships are actually fighting at a given time? This way having a high CP would be a definite advantage, as you spread out the enemy's damage while bringing more weapons to bear yourself, but a larger fleet could still defeat a smaller, tactically superior fleet through attrition.

Mount and Blade tackled this adequately - there were army sizes (a hard cap determined by your general), but if you came across a combat-in-progress, you could reinforce either side if you so chose. 2v1 battles were glorious, and I would LOVE to see that epic Endless Space camera show an allied Craver fleet swooping in to finish off some pirates that are giving me a rough go-around. Even if they had a percentile chance (20% chance of showing up for Phase 1, 60% chance of showing up for Phase 2, 100% chance of showing up for Phase 3) of when they arrived, it would be great, as it would add more tension and drama to the combat.