[Discussion] Terraforming does not provide value worth the cost

fourteenfour

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17 900g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 13, 2012, 8:37:18 PM

Kareal wrote:
Also if you want to convert the purpose of the planet: converting Barren to Desert is a massive industry boost in the same way as Lava to Arctic is a good science boost.

Which brings up the point, who decides stupid things like that.

PanH

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PanH

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21 800g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 15, 2012, 2:59:38 PM

(Terran is Dust specialized, not food, Jungle, Ocean and Terran got the same amount of food)

Terraforming can be pretty effective.

About the sowers, e.g. (i'm not talking about customs races, there's too much about it), I usually rushed the Tundra terraforming + Adamantium, and Terraformed all the Tier II or lower to Tundra. Due to industry powerhouse, that was quite fast, often 1 turn, sometimes less, and that was giving a huge boost due to improvements, approval, also in Science (Tundra got a good natural Science, and good Industry with improvements). At that point, you don't worry anymore about getting one or 2 forge systems, cause all of them are.

And dreadnaught spamming is far from being the easier way to win.

I'm sure you can find others strategy about terraforming, but at high level (such in MP, it's hard to beat a player more than a Ai, and game can get to higher tech), if you don't terraform, you're lost.

Stalker0

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Stalker0

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13 years ago

Jul 14, 2012, 8:19:33 PM

Taliesyn wrote:
What we need is a Genesis Project.

Without the crazy, revenge-obsessed superhuman.

Basically an ability that adds an entire new planet to a system. Now that's a late game ability!

Taliesyn

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Taliesyn

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26 300g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 14, 2012, 8:12:48 PM

What we need is a Genesis Project.

Without the crazy, revenge-obsessed superhuman.

sp0q

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sp0q

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13 years ago

Jul 14, 2012, 3:00:34 PM

I wouldn't expect a complete planet's type changing to be cost effective.

ruonim

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ruonim

Path Finder

19 100g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 14, 2012, 1:07:12 PM

Terraforming is only way to increase approval late game. Yes i'm looking at you -70 expansion disapproval with all reducing techs.

Astax

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Astax

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13 years ago

Jul 14, 2012, 7:29:47 AM

I view terraforming as the icing on a delicious cake. Now in games such as this, you won't always make it to the end of the game where you get to use such a cool tech, but there has to be something at the end of the game. Otherwise, you just get there once in a while and wonder what happened... I think as the game evolves, there will be more things such as terraforming meant only for the endgame. Bigger ships, planet construction, maybe even Dyson spheres, and those things will just seem out of reach for the average game. But that's not the point of them, they exist so that if you keep playing the game beyond reasonable amount of time you are not stuck making dust on all your planets

Although, I would nto mind if we had a Gaia planet type, that can only be reached through terraforming

Perhaps then more people would view it as an investment.

CaptainPsilon

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CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 13, 2012, 11:20:42 PM

Well if you decided to put terraforming in the Q list instead of dreadnought that means that game is pretty over for your opponents

unless it is some kind of peaceful game without military

MODNosferatiel

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MODNosferatiel

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13 years ago

Jul 13, 2012, 9:03:34 PM

Edited the title and turned into a discussion.

CaptainPsilon

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CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 13, 2012, 10:53:49 AM

Both in research and industry cost

So it doesnt considered even slightly as an option in any serious game

Discuss

Taliesyn

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Taliesyn

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13 years ago

Jul 13, 2012, 8:31:57 PM

On top of what the others have said, if you're going for an economic victory, terraforming is most definitely worth the cost, as that condition looks at total dust income and nothing else, and barren planets aren't known for being dust powerhouses.

Kareal

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Kareal

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37 400g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 13, 2012, 8:16:55 PM

Also if you want to convert the purpose of the planet: converting Barren to Desert is a massive industry boost in the same way as Lava to Arctic is a good science boost.

Fishman

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Fishman

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200g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 13, 2012, 8:05:14 PM

Well, sure, if you play on a tiny map and rush the game, terraforming definitely doesn't pay for itself. But I'm pretty sure people don't play galactic conquest games because they love tiny maps and games that end in an hour or two. To me, anything other than "ginormous" just seems wrong. Space is supposed to be big!

Evil4Zerggin

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Evil4Zerggin

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13 years ago

Jul 13, 2012, 7:26:02 PM

Terraforming is generally less efficient than other improvements. A Class II or III terraform costs 750 or 800 Industry respectively; the effect of such a terraform is

Usually +1 population.
+5 Approval.
About +3 total FIDS on the planet.
No upkeep.

Meanwhile, Hydroseqencing costs 700 Industry and gives

+4 total FIDS on all planets.
5 upkeep (pretty negligible at this point).

which I would rate as more powerful unless you have only a single planet.

Armid

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Armid

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13 years ago

Jul 13, 2012, 1:27:44 PM

FinalStrigon and Igncom1's comments, when put together, holds the answer in my opinion.

The game is short enough (even on slow settings) and easily winnable before you're going to need to terraform anything. But if it does drag on for some reason or you're just looking for a perfect empire without going on a fight, in the long run, terraforming will pay up eventually. But you do need to love very long games, though.

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

11 400g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 13, 2012, 1:17:47 PM

I have only really even got to terraform once....but that's because i usually win or lose before then.

VIPFinalStrigon

Sheredyn

VIPFinalStrigon

Sheredyn

33 000g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 13, 2012, 12:21:17 PM

CaptainPsilon wrote:
Both in research and industry cost

So it doesnt considered even slightly as an option in any serious game

Discuss

Not immediately, no. But if you terraform your planet up to the Tier 1 level (Terran, Jungle, and Dust) you make your investment back over time. You won't have any approval hits due to inhospitable planets, and those worlds tend to be the best at the kind of production you want (Jungle is an Industry powerhouse, Ocean a Science, Terran a Food). Put the proper planetary exploits on them, and switch the system over to an Ind-->something conversion when you're done building up the system, and you're going to be set.

fourteenfour

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fourteenfour

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17 900g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 13, 2012, 10:57:15 AM

to be honest unless you provide some proof one way or another what is the point? Really? Discuss? That is all you have to contribute?

Back up your assertion or go home.

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