Mines are under consideration by the devs i believe .



But yes worth for the fighters, the logistical problem i suggested was not liked by the other people on this post and i can see why, but i still feel like fighters should be able to be used up during a turn. (Multiple battles for a single fleet, with the strikecraft being shot down each time, by the end of a round you could completely lose a part of your arsenal.)



But i have no strong feelings towards any logistical problem as long as it don't increase micromanagement, it should be quite automatic in its function. (Imagine late game, 20 fleets all with carriers needing manual strikecraft refills, i shudder at the thought.)

That's relative.



A billion lives are lost and gained on a daily/yearly/whatever basis with every click of the end turn button. A hundred CPs or more are lost within a few minutes and the galaxy doesn't even wince. A single star system may exchange hands several times within a single turn with many CPs and population markers lost in the exchanges yet it's just a drop in the sea. So what more is the plight of one fighter pilot? Who will remember his or her name, who will care? Who has the time to care? You have a galactic empire to run and there are dozens of more conflicts to shuttle your fleets to .



Perhaps what is valuable in the end are those who survive long enough to accrue veterancy. Everything else is cannon fodder and that's how it is currently.

steinernein wrote:
That's relative.



A billion lives are lost and gained on a daily/yearly/whatever basis with every click of the end turn button. A hundred CPs or more are lost within a few minutes and the galaxy doesn't even wince. A single star system may exchange hands several times within a single turn with many CPs and population markers lost in the exchanges yet it's just a drop in the sea. So what more is the plight of one fighter pilot? Who will remember his or her name, who will care? Who has the time to care? You have a galactic empire to run and there are dozens of more conflicts to shuttle your fleets to .



Perhaps what is valuable in the end are those who survive long enough to accrue veterancy. Everything else is cannon fodder and that's how it is currently.

Aye. This is all just my opinion. I tend to play with the "not a single ship must be lost" idea in mind.

But... we're getting away from the original intent of this thread.

I like the idea of strike crafts with actual HP. this allow them to serve both offensive and defensive roles.

Strikecrafts without HP overlap in role with weapon modules. People tend to build whichever is most effective and ignore the other in any overlapping situation.

I still prefer strikecrafts as hybrid offensive / defensive modules.

/#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/12597-strike-crafts-and-carriers

Indeed, as from my initial post's strikecraft would have HP in their ability to avoid fire (Like real world aircraft) rather then their ability to endure it.



And as deployed via the battle cards as a weapon system (With many types) they would be far more unique and conter-based in their combat, along with the inclusion of trying to survive enemy flak defenses.



You idea is a good one, but might present a form of omni-module that could completely overlap traditional defenses and weapons, how do you plan to compensate for this?

Indeed, as from my initial post's strikecraft would have HP in their ability to avoid fire (Like real world aircraft) rather then their ability to endure it.



And as deployed via the battle cards as a weapon system (With many types) they would be far more unique and conter-based in their combat, along with the inclusion of trying to survive enemy flak defenses.



You idea is a good one, but might present a form of omni-module that could completely overlap traditional defenses and weapons, how do you plan to compensate for this?

strike crafts according to my proposal provide a nonlinear increase in protection.

Consider the fleet of one ship: the first squadron reduce damage taken by 1/2 in the first round, the second squadron by only additional 1/6(1/3-1/2), and third by 1/12 (1/4-1/3).

Therefore there squadrons have diminishing return. They would be better than modules at some point, and worse after that.

I tend to want strikecraft implemented as sort of a 'soft counter' so give the strikecraft the following properties:

1. 80% value of flak 2. Missile like properties 3. Always targets the weakest defense - so they either do Hull, kinetic or beam 4. Activation requires Dust or modules have heavy dust maintenance cost. 5. The module always has high invasion properties.



Other modules regarding strikecraft can enhance various properties like specialize them towards flak (higher interception rates), defensive properties (evasion), more damage/invasion, and other out of combat area effects like sensor augmentation or disruption. Battle cards corresponding to strikecraft should alter existing mechanics and/or change the properties of strikecraft, examples:



1. Space Superiority - Increases interception rate, your strikecraft in this phase do not deal damage to enemy ships.

2. Combined Arms - Delays damage dealt to enemy fleet until the end of the round.

3. Bomber Fleet - Your strikecraft cannot perform interception. Deal double damage to enemy ships.

4. Overstocked Arrays - Double the number of strikecraft in this phase. You are unable to use strikecraft for the rest of the battle.



The game actually doesn't have enough battle cards and most of them aren't meaningful or have very specific uses furthermore none of them are particularly flavorful. So when done in practice you have a very few selection of cards, there is really no excuse not to add more cards especially if we can add cards that interact with the new feature 'strikecraft' and at the same time flesh out affinities as having 'strikecraft' allows more flavor for doctrinal differences between the affinities. Craver strikecraft would probably always act differently than Hissho or Pilgrims - the cards should reflect those differences.



Hero interaction is also a must as there aren't enough options on heroes and some hero choices are more under powered than others. It can be noted that you will always be fighting an enemy hero with a hero of your own. This is a great opportunity to add more depth to heroes and have more flavor associated with them - why shouldn't you have a legendary pilot ?

Modules!



Do you make the specialized, or do you make them general?



I would see them as being general (as specialization would be a pain in the butt), each small one possessing room for X1 bomber X2 gunship X3 Fighter X1 Interceptor, with the general idea that strike-craft are modular and thus can be re-equipped quickly.





I don't see strike-craft having actual HP, but being more dependent on what flak uses, interception. I believe missiles only have to account for Flak one a phase (not being shot down on the way) and thus would have the once use advantage over strike-craft, however in numbers and with a high evasion, higher then most missiles, strike-craft could survive an entire phase of multiplier rounds destroying them. (Looks cool), this of course meaning fighters and interceptors (I'm sure some gunships and bombers could also have interception) can shoot down missiles, possibly leaving missiles far to easy to shoot down right? well i actually think this could leave missiles wide open to unique diversity, with multi-launch mods, MIRV tactics and super heavy torpedoes of death.



All in all bringing much diversity and strategy into ES, lessen the focus on (Better technology? you win) kinda wars.

Made the thread into a discussion.

Thanks, sorry i must have forgot.

Strikecraft as modules with indirect power or act as soft counters.



Strikecraft cards as buffs, debuffs, and alterations of existing mechanics. As well as cards interacting with heroes and specific affinity based ones.

For hero's, what did you have in mind?



Giving them specific buffs?

Something basic and boring like a new cards that take advantage of whether or not the hero has pilot/commander.



Legendary Pilot, a combat card, could do something silly like temporarily remove an enemy ship from the current phase as though it were destroyed in the phase(it returns after the current phase with 50% hp). Countering this card wounds your hero.



... or they could have stuff like 'Drone Production Specialist (Administrator) - Strikecraft modules cost -50%' or 'Strikecraft Pirate (Adventurer) - Leeches science and dust from adjacent systems if current fleet has strikecraft module' etc.



'Evolving Training Protocols (Corporate) - Ships with Strikecraft Modules gain extra XP every turn'

I love it!

You could also add a new hull or just give the dread bonuses for strike craft modules.

I absolutely love the idea of strikecraft being added into the mix.



The only thing I can see is, that those kind of crafts aren't going to be able to shuttle themselves around to other star systems or constellations due to size and lack of tech being fitted into a small craft, therefore needing either a fitted module on a Dread (maybe add a dedicated carrier based ship, to refit and rearm?) or just act as reaction force to a planetary invasion (again having more impact on holding the planet through a cinematic battle).



If a Dread or Carrier could ferry these craft into battle, then it would act as perfect "melee" phase, allowing bombers to do their thing and boarding pods/ships (maybe 5 troopers per party/pod) to rush the ships bridge.



Anyway that's just my thought

Great ideas!



I see two ways of doing this. Firstly to have the strikecraft be another type of weapon to add to the offense/defense system we currently have. Perhaps with their own countermeasure, AA batteries or something to that effect. Or as mentioned above, give flak a dual purpose for when it isn't shooting down missiles.



Alternatively, have the strikecraft implemented as another ship entirely. You design them and build them like any ship in your fleet, only you build them in wings, not as individuals. You can either leave them in the hangar/orbit of the planet they are created on (giving you a small defense fleet) OR you install specific hangar modules into your larger ships, that allow them to take on a more offensive role, supporting the fleets. This could be represented by a fleet cap, within the fleet. For instance..



Fleet A: 5/13 (1/5)



With the first number being the ships in the fleet, the second being the available slots for strike craft.



The second route of implementation would be preferable, I think. It could potentially open up new techs; strikecraft module capacity strikecraft armor/weapons/countermeasures etc.



Both have their merits and disadvantages, and I can see it being difficult to properly implement either of them.



Would people see strikecraft being a card we play during combat? A sort of "special move", something that deploys specifically in a certain phase (i can't see them being remotely useful in the long range phase of battle.)



What level of customization do we want with them? Do we want to pick their weapons/armor, or do we want them to be nothing more than "smart missiles" that are deployed during every phase, firing X number of shots before returning to their hangars for a rearm?



Personally, i'd want them to be another ship class entirely, but i'm curious to hear other peoples thoughts.

I rather like your idea on the matter Igncom1, pretty much spot on. I wouldn't like the inclusion of hero traits, as it would make having a hero in a fleet even more de facto if it isn't so already in multiplayer. Considering the dreadnought has no speciality besides being the big momma , allow the dreadnought to have a tonnage reduction per strikecraft module. Saves on the artwork!



However, replenishment of fighter craft should be based on the tech level of the module rather than fleet position, considering it is a weapon and it's not like kinetic based weapons run out of ammo while invading hostile systems.

No, I certainly do not want something I have to manually supply by sending them back to a system.



As for more battle cards, the game probably has too many. What they technologies should be doing is giving us better versions of each battle card we already have and always putting the replacement in the same slot when choosing.