OK, so past discussions on this topic have been less the constructive (to say the least) so i would like to firmly discuss their game play possibility and implementation.



All ideas welcome, and constructive criticism welcomed.



There will be no deviation towards in depth discussions about how they would work without (lots) backed up evidence from endless space lore on technology.



And if i should stray, quote me on this, or bitch slap me for being an ass. (poor donkeys always getting the short end of the stick )





The way i see them being implemented is via modules giving access to improvable combat cards, as in more modules makes the cards better.



Now these cards won't be like normal combat cards where they give boosts or penalty's to their actions, strike-craft would have a large variance but would mostly act like normal weapons when they are activated.



Bombers hitting with strong one shot weapons but being vulnerable to fighters, interceptors and flak.



Gunships attack with weaker but rapid firing weapons, vulnerable to fighters, flak and defensive cards.



Fighters attack bombers and gunships, can draw with fighters, vulnerable to interceptors, flak and offensive cards.



Interceptors attack all other strike-craft except other interceptors who they draw with, vulnerable to Flak and offensive cards.



With strike-craft being tied to modules, i believe they should deplete from use and can only be replaced when in a neutral or friendly system. Specialty strike-craft would lose their main attacking ability in exchange of their unique ability, but would retain their designation (i.e Boarding Gunships, Bombardment bombers, Replicator Fighters.)





I would love to hear your guys thoughts. Keep it cool guys and gals!

I like the idea of using a module/ card combination for strikecraft. I was thinking along similar lines to steinernein with the general cards. Numbers are of course general guidelines and, if such things are implemented, should be tweaked based on balance =)



1. Combat Space Patrol - Increases missile and fighter interception rates, but reduces strikecraft damage to fleet by %75

2. Mixed Strike Package - Deals 33% Missile, 33% Kinetic, and 33% Laser Damage

3. Torpedo Squadron - Your strikecraft cannot perform interception. Deal +50% damage enemy ships (same as stienernein's bomber fleet)

4. Race Specific - requires additional research to unlock and cost Dust to use. Some races would receive passive ability instead of a card.

a. Cravers - Kamikaze - Doubles number of fighter craft in phase. each fighter's damage +25%. You are unable to use strikecraft for the rest of the battle (destroy all strikecraft at end of phase).

:Rationale - They're hyper aggressive hoard fighters.

b. Amoebas -Envelop Fleet - Reduce fleet damage from all forms

:Rationale -passive aggressive amoebas

c. Hissho - Precision Strikes - increase drone fleet damage, decrease interception

:Rationale - Avian descent and warrior ethos

d. Horatio - Horatio Weave (play on Thatch weave) - reduce enemy interception, increase drone damage

:Rationale - Homogeneous group would excel at squadron maneuvers?

e. Pilgrims - Legendary Drone Squadron - increased interception, increased damage to enemy fleet/fighters

:Rationale - legendary heroes

f. Sophons - Enhanced ECM - reduce enemy accuracy

:Rationale - win w/ science!

g. Sowers - (Passive no card) - Enhanced Drone Modules - Race has +number of fighters per module, reduced module weight

:Builder robots build better drones

h. United Empire - Flak Screen - Fighter and Flak damage, rate of fire, and accuracy increased (BSG ripoff, I know)

LOL - the more I read the more it makes me realize your going to need a spreadsheet just to keep tabs on it all.



The combat needs to be simple, put it this way, if you take more than three bullet points to describe it then it is more than likely to complex to be fun

Yeah the supply idea was just an idea, it's cool to have such positive feed back, once gwt more time i will comment on the other ideas proposed.

ShadowEye2099 wrote:
I absolutely love the idea of strikecraft being added into the mix.



The only thing I can see is, that those kind of crafts aren't going to be able to shuttle themselves around to other star systems or constellations due to size and lack of tech being fitted into a small craft, therefore needing either a fitted module on a Dread (maybe add a dedicated carrier based ship, to refit and rearm?) or just act as reaction force to a planetary invasion (again having more impact on holding the planet through a cinematic battle).



If a Dread or Carrier could ferry these craft into battle, then it would act as perfect "melee" phase, allowing bombers to do their thing and boarding pods/ships (maybe 5 troopers per party/pod) to rush the ships bridge.



Anyway that's just my thought

I agree with the idea of having a carrier dedicated hull, but what about still allowing smaller ships to carry a hanger or two as well? acting as support carriers?

korr720 wrote:
Great ideas!



I see two ways of doing this. Firstly to have the strikecraft be another type of weapon to add to the offense/defense system we currently have. Perhaps with their own countermeasure, AA batteries or something to that effect. Or as mentioned above, give flak a dual purpose for when it isn't shooting down missiles.



Alternatively, have the strikecraft implemented as another ship entirely. You design them and build them like any ship in your fleet, only you build them in wings, not as individuals. You can either leave them in the hangar/orbit of the planet they are created on (giving you a small defense fleet) OR you install specific hangar modules into your larger ships, that allow them to take on a more offensive role, supporting the fleets. This could be represented by a fleet cap, within the fleet. For instance..



Fleet A: 5/13 (1/5)



With the first number being the ships in the fleet, the second being the available slots for strike craft.



The second route of implementation would be preferable, I think. It could potentially open up new techs; strikecraft module capacity strikecraft armor/weapons/countermeasures etc.



Both have their merits and disadvantages, and I can see it being difficult to properly implement either of them.



Would people see strikecraft being a card we play during combat? A sort of "special move", something that deploys specifically in a certain phase (i can't see them being remotely useful in the long range phase of battle.)



What level of customization do we want with them? Do we want to pick their weapons/armor, or do we want them to be nothing more than "smart missiles" that are deployed during every phase, firing X number of shots before returning to their hangars for a rearm?



Personally, i'd want them to be another ship class entirely, but i'm curious to hear other peoples thoughts.

For defensive matters it might be better to have them included into a improvement for the system instead of actually building them, they would backup other types of defensive ship that my be build able.



A specific carrier/strike-craft limit per fleet could be cool, and i would love to hear your thoughts on how that would effect their deployment.



Well they could be useful in long range combat, being undeterred by the actual distance, they would just have a little travel time.



While i am not too sure about actual customization of of the craft, unlocking specific weapons technology's could upgrade your combat cards and whatnot to keep up with technological progression. Their use would be equivalent to missiles for the bombers, depending on the bomber, and for gunships it would be equivalent for missiles that fire every round.



For other classes of ships, i am entirely neutral.

Theodemir wrote:
I rather like your idea on the matter Igncom1, pretty much spot on. I wouldn't like the inclusion of hero traits, as it would make having a hero in a fleet even more de facto if it isn't so already in multiplayer. Considering the dreadnought has no speciality besides being the big momma , allow the dreadnought to have a tonnage reduction per strikecraft module. Saves on the artwork!



However, replenishment of fighter craft should be based on the tech level of the module rather than fleet position, considering it is a weapon and it's not like kinetic based weapons run out of ammo while invading hostile systems.

I understand your concerns with the heroes, i feel like it might be advantageous for adventure or corporate heroes to have affinity's for fighters, in order to promote hero-fleet diversity.



Dreadnaughts might be a good choice for carriers I agree.



Yeah, other people have also commented on this, and i have come to agree.

Shivetya wrote:
No, I certainly do not want something I have to manually supply by sending them back to a system.



As for more battle cards, the game probably has too many. What they technologies should be doing is giving us better versions of each battle card we already have and always putting the replacement in the same slot when choosing.

I feel like you could have too many, currently all of the cards in the game have a spsific job and it may be possible to add redundant ones, but more unique ones with actual purposes could still be a good idea.



and yeah, the supply thing isn't a really good idea, i agree.

steinernein wrote:
I tend to want strikecraft implemented as sort of a 'soft counter' so give the strikecraft the following properties:

1. 80% value of flak 2. Missile like properties 3. Always targets the weakest defense - so they either do Hull, kinetic or beam 4. Activation requires Dust or modules have heavy dust maintenance cost. 5. The module always has high invasion properties.



Other modules regarding strikecraft can enhance various properties like specialize them towards flak (higher interception rates), defensive properties (evasion), more damage/invasion, and other out of combat area effects like sensor augmentation or disruption. Battle cards corresponding to strikecraft should alter existing mechanics and/or change the properties of strikecraft, examples:



1. Space Superiority - Increases interception rate, your strikecraft in this phase do not deal damage to enemy ships.

2. Combined Arms - Delays damage dealt to enemy fleet until the end of the round.

3. Bomber Fleet - Your strikecraft cannot perform interception. Deal double damage to enemy ships.

4. Overstocked Arrays - Double the number of strikecraft in this phase. You are unable to use strikecraft for the rest of the battle.



The game actually doesn't have enough battle cards and most of them aren't meaningful or have very specific uses furthermore none of them are particularly flavorful. So when done in practice you have a very few selection of cards, there is really no excuse not to add more cards especially if we can add cards that interact with the new feature 'strikecraft' and at the same time flesh out affinities as having 'strikecraft' allows more flavor for doctrinal differences between the affinities. Craver strikecraft would probably always act differently than Hissho or Pilgrims - the cards should reflect those differences.



Hero interaction is also a must as there aren't enough options on heroes and some hero choices are more under powered than others. It can be noted that you will always be fighting an enemy hero with a hero of your own. This is a great opportunity to add more depth to heroes and have more flavor associated with them - why shouldn't you have a legendary pilot ?

I agree and like these ideas.



However strike-craft would not have to worry about defenses due to their ability to bypass deflectors and shields, and so could be the solution to a highly defended enemy.



And i am not sure about dust activating strike-craft, some are possible but all other dust activated ability are from heroes and so wouldn't really fit in for modules.

Prophaniti wrote:
I like the idea of using a module/ card combination for strikecraft. I was thinking along similar lines to steinernein with the general cards. Numbers are of course general guidelines and, if such things are implemented, should be tweaked based on balance =)



1. Combat Space Patrol - Increases missile and fighter interception rates, but reduces strikecraft damage to fleet by %75

2. Mixed Strike Package - Deals 33% Missile, 33% Kinetic, and 33% Laser Damage

3. Torpedo Squadron - Your strikecraft cannot perform interception. Deal +50% damage enemy ships (same as stienernein's bomber fleet)

4. Race Specific - requires additional research to unlock and cost Dust to use. Some races would receive passive ability instead of a card.

a. Cravers - Kamikaze - Doubles number of fighter craft in phase. each fighter's damage +25%. You are unable to use strikecraft for the rest of the battle (destroy all strikecraft at end of phase).

:Rationale - They're hyper aggressive hoard fighters.

b. Amoebas -Envelop Fleet - Reduce fleet damage from all forms

:Rationale -passive aggressive amoebas

c. Hissho - Precision Strikes - increase drone fleet damage, decrease interception

:Rationale - Avian descent and warrior ethos

d. Horatio - Horatio Weave (play on Thatch weave) - reduce enemy interception, increase drone damage

:Rationale - Homogeneous group would excel at squadron maneuvers?

e. Pilgrims - Legendary Drone Squadron - increased interception, increased damage to enemy fleet/fighters

:Rationale - legendary heroes

f. Sophons - Enhanced ECM - reduce enemy accuracy

:Rationale - win w/ science!

g. Sowers - (Passive no card) - Enhanced Drone Modules - Race has +number of fighters per module, reduced module weight

:Builder robots build better drones

h. United Empire - Flak Screen - Fighter and Flak damage, rate of fire, and accuracy increased (BSG ripoff, I know)

I like these ideas, especially number 4!

Here is my idea. The fighter would be a excellent weapon for the Long and Short phase of a fight. Not so much in the middle.



You would have a "Hangar" module for fighters, each hangar would have X fighters ( think 5 to 10 fighters in the 3D map for each module is enough too give a good quantity and a "swarm" effect). A module can produce 5 fighters but they are still 1 unit with a single HP bar.



Each fighter have 3 stats.



1-> HP (here is how much dmg a squadron can take. Maybe dmg from flak too).

2-> kinetic Dmg (To take out other fighters). The accuracy will be medium to give a window for heroes and improvements too work.

3-> Missile dmg (against ships)



The difference from fighter missiles to capital ship missiles is....



1-> they attack each turn the capital ships or other fighters.

2-> Each squadron unit launch X missiles/turn. Each missile have very low dmg.

3-> They overwhelm flaks, too many missiles to destroy will make sure some missiles will hit.



This means while the capital ship missile work like a Hammer with a big hit and big dmg numbers. The fighter missile work like a mosquito bites. Working like long range kinetics that have great accuracy.



The reason behind this is to give another option of attack to players. No point looking like a "missile weapon module" with a new animation.



Guns are fired like kinetic only against other fighters, too small to really dmg a capital ship. They have medium accuracy, This will make sure heroes and cards can have a effect on their battle.



Heroes -> Offense and defense work on fighters giving +accuracy and defense to them. Pilot heroes would have one or two abilitys improving fighters.







How would they work in battle.



Phase 1 -> they would leave hangar and start launching missiles as they close in. Flak is the defense like normal. The flak will focus the capital ship missiles first of course. But as capital ship missiles are only fired once each phase, the flaks will be busy fending off small missiles most of the phase.



Phase 2 -> Fighters will fight each other. Here 2 things can happen.

1-> Side A wipes out Side B -> "A" will now resume missile strikes, side B don´t have fighters anymore so he can´t launch missiles.

2-> Both sides have too many to wipe each other out -> They dont attack, too busy fighting each other.



Phase 3-> Same as Phase 2





How the animations would look like.



Phase 1 -> They leave the ships, take formation and start closing in. They fire.



Phase 2-> The battles start. They would fight in the middle of all the shots/explosions like 2 swarms trying to kill each other. If they win they take formation again and shoot the ships.



Phase 3-> They retreat a little and make another run. Retreat at the end of the fight. Or just keep fighting.





How in the tech it would work.

1 -> You unlock fighters module researching destroyers.



Each time you research a new ship (Cruiser > battleship > dreadnought etc) you are going to unlock a new fighter with better HP. The reason behind this is that you improved the materials and got new ideas doing the big ships.



For kinetic and missile dmg you just need to research the same techs needed for capital ships, they will now also unlock a fighter version. This way you give another reason to research them.



2 -> Some support techs can also improve one or more fighter stats.



B -> Create a "fighter tree" inside the battle tree that would improve all 3 stats at same time. But i dont like this because it adds too many techs, and the game already have enough to make sure you can´t research all in one game. Much better to make sure you will spend a great time thinking if you should go deep in the tree, right or left.





With this idea you have



1- Another attack option that work like kinetic and lasers but can use missiles cards.

2- Another reason to use pilot heroes.

3- A attack that have 2 defenses. Flak can defend all attacks but fighters can fight each other too. Sure you will get some missiles hits but after you wipe them out unless they have other modules they can´t hit you anymore.



This can also make possible the funny outcome of both fleets wiping each other out

A module should suffice. And have additional Carrier type hulls that have -% to size of strikecraft modules...



Now as far as weapon type, we could have them equipped with whatever weapon type you choose. But the kicker would be that the weapon could be countered by it's appropriate counter, and there would also be a special anti strikecraft counter module, that would counter all strikecraft regardless of what weapon it was flying. This way if you outfitted your fleet with 50% deflectors and 50% AA guns, and the strikecraft coming at your fleet was armed with kinetic weapons, your defenses would be extremely effective. On the other hand if the strikecraft was using torpedoes, only the AA guns would roll for defense.

= Strikecraft



= Added as System Improvement (& added to defense points of System)



= Automatic usage of Strikecraft when System is being invaded. (Even if unable to destroy enemy fleet, they slow the invasion timer)



= Strikecraft gain bonuses of Hero assigned to System (If Hero is present & has Fleet or Pilot Bonuses)



= Introduction of Defense Satellites (??? - Instead of Strikecraft for System Defense, if this makes more sense)



= Carrier Hulls ( Containing Strikecraft that must take 1 Combat Phase to Deploy & only effective during the Melee Phase of Battle)



= Carrier Strikecraft that are destroyed can only be replaced in Friendly/Owned Systems



= Carrier Strikecraft that are damaged can only be repaired in Neutral/Enemy Systems if Carrier has Auto-Repair Module onboard