When you say which faction is the strongest, do you mean as far as combat, expansion, economy, diplomatic, or wonder. Or is this for all of the above, like how good is the faction at everything?

Igncom1 wrote:
I would say that the main problem with it is that people go colonizing lava and gas giants without considering the approval problems that entails from it.



Don't colonize below T2 until you have the first approval building, and the same for below T3 with the second approval building, and then you can colonize T0 once you have the third approval building.

Well if you look beyond that, ESPECIALLY on sowers, what else would you want that tolerant gives you quickly? You don't want gas giants anyways, so that's out. You really do want asteroids because of the lovely production. Lava is nice, and decently up the tree so you might get it a few turns earlier, but what else do they care about? If you only stick to stuff you can handle the approval for....then it's barely any different from a normal race(at a horrendous cost) because by the time you can handle the approval loss you probably could've grabbed ALL the colonization techs.



Edit-

That said I did just have a silly idea for a custom at least. Use some fast expanding tech and tolerant with stellar guardians(good luck getting the points for that) and then race as fast as you can to take the most inhospitable planets you can find in the most obnoxious areas. Use your huge influence area to lock out other races, or force them to take your terrible run down planet as their own. Obviously only a gimmick AI trick though.

Yeah in away it was...before that nerf a good amoaba player was almost able to do as good as a Sophon does in Science.



and now we got this Sophon abomination of a overused noob race.



It is like the Auto Sniper Rifle in Counterstrike.

i have no respect for people using them...or servers which allow more then one in a team.

Counterstike players will know what i mean.

Eh... they should have reduced effectiveness of science from trade routes solely for Sophons, not for everyone. Less a nerf more a Sophon buff :P

Romeo wrote:
2.0 to 0.5 would be 400%, not 300%. And didn't Hissho's affinity also get boosted along with the nerf

PS, you're signature is my favourite part in the whole series.

i talked about that topic with Igncom1 in another thread http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/...ers-and-Amoeba



its a 75% nerf to the multiplier with th old Multiplier the Science Output in the end was 300% MORE or 400% OF what u gain now.



The Hissho Affinity was buffed and then nerfed cause the buff was to strong.



PS:thanks it is my favorit part of ME too ; )

Romeo wrote:
2.0 to 0.5 would be 400%, not 300%. And didn't Hissho's affinity also get boosted along with the nerf?







PS, you're signature is my favourite part in the whole series.

Not sure what nerf is being talked about, I only heard that their affinity was buffed

Sovereign wrote:
the whole pool is outdated anyway cause there were major chainges (Trait Costs,Nerfs and so on) back in Beta there were many Amoeba players (which are in the pool rank 1) now after the huge nerf on Trade (either ingame with the science trade route multiplier from 2 to 0.5. which is a 300% over NERF and also the much higher Trait costs)there only a few in MP. Also Hissho gots and major Nerf to their affinity and atm 90% of Players are playing Sophons in MP.

2.0 to 0.5 would be 400%, not 300%. And didn't Hissho's affinity also get boosted along with the nerf?







PS, you're signature is my favourite part in the whole series.

the whole pool is outdated anyway cause there were major chainges (Trait Costs,Nerfs and so on) back in Beta there were many Amoeba players (which are in the pool rank 1) now after the huge nerf on Trade (either ingame with the science trade route multiplier from 2 to 0.5. which is a 300% over NERF and also the much higher Trait costs)there only a few in MP. Also Hissho gots and major Nerf to their affinity and atm 90% of Players are playing Sophons in MP.

Dementophobic wrote:
I think the poll should be restructured for MP experiences only. In my personal experience, how powerful a faction appears in SP largely depends on how skilled the AI is with using that faction (overall, it is bad with most factions). Because of that, you can win in pretty much any style you want which gives a very skewed view.



However, the poll is asking for objectively how powerful a race is, which I think can only be answered by playing against other players who will try to use each race to their fullest capability (and are much smarter than AI).



I'm not saying we should ignore the SP component of the game, rather, AI improvements can be made later so the AI can play more like a real player. SP currently is a bad indicator of faction strengths.

Well said, but again, I think it ties into what I said, whether SP or MP, galaxy size and other parameters also come into play. Play a small galaxy, the malus of some factions in rather negated or benefits are multiplied. Play a large galaxy, their affinity (good or bad) is multiplied.

I think the poll should be restructured for MP experiences only. In my personal experience, how powerful a faction appears in SP largely depends on how skilled the AI is with using that faction (overall, it is bad with most factions). Because of that, you can win in pretty much any style you want which gives a very skewed view.



However, the poll is asking for objectively how powerful a race is, which I think can only be answered by playing against other players who will try to use each race to their fullest capability (and are much smarter than AI).



I'm not saying we should ignore the SP component of the game, rather, AI improvements can be made later so the AI can play more like a real player. SP currently is a bad indicator of faction strengths.

I think it really depends on map size, like some have stated.



Also, galaxy type. More wormholes favors tech factions and cripples slow tech factions. Open maps with few or no wormholes favor the expansion factions.



Since folks prefer different map sizes and types, it is hard to get an open poll response that is truly balanced.

I've only really played a little with a few races so far



Human I'd say amoeba or sowers ( ability to colonise any planet type especially in the beginning is a huge bonus)

Ai definitely cravers as i have been eaten at least twice

jdb wrote:
You may be right, and perhaps I also need to be playing at a higher difficulty level than Normal... But honestly when I see them next door my usual reaction is relief because I don't have to waste resources on buying peace and can instead use those resources to contain the Cravers while they wither on the vine or snatch up a few systems from them if they haven't consumed them completely. I'm usually highly expansionist and colonize to the brink of unrest, though, so I almost always end up with more planets/systems than them.



Perhaps my mileage will vary with a less forgiving difficulty setting.

The Cravers do respond the most to better AI, for sure. That's because they're so much of a gamble on the lesser difficulties (As you said, if you manage to contain them, they quickly fade in to irrelevence). If they expand quick (Hello, Hard AI), their strong combat abilities and large FIDS bonus make them impossible to take on directly. Mid-game they still tend to be riding the success of expansion, and also have their systems developed enough to ignore FIDS penalty. If they survive until late game, their combat prowess, coupled with the largest fleet sizes in the game (Just shy of 30CP) mean they can simply steamroll the competition. Assuming the player (Or player's alliance) manages to start stealing back some of those systems, they'll still find themselves outpowered in-combat, and in possession of next-to-useless systems that will actually cost them Dust in most cases.

Igncom1 wrote:
I would say that the main problem with it is that people go colonizing lava and gas giants without considering the approval problems that entails from it.



Don't colonize below T2 until you have the first approval building, and the same for below T3 with the second approval building, and then you can colonize T0 once you have the third approval building.

Personally they need some sort of reduction in the penalty for settling planets you don't have yet and maybe a faction specific happiness tech.

I would say that the main problem with it is that people go colonizing lava and gas giants without considering the approval problems that entails from it.



Don't colonize below T2 until you have the first approval building, and the same for below T3 with the second approval building, and then you can colonize T0 once you have the third approval building.

Eji1700 wrote:
Sowers- Tolerant has some pretty big issues right now. You essentially gain nothing from it, because by the time you were likely to gain from it you'd have already gotten the tech you needed. This with the two WORST downsides on a default race(fleet movement and tech speed) really makes them a struggle. It's a shame because their affinity should give them some interesting advantages, but you spend too long playing catch up.

I'd say Tolerant should give an additional strong bonus at least (negate or partially negate approval penalties on high-class planets?). At the moment, it's easily the WORST positive race trait to pick, even if we try to build a custom race out of it. Unless you make an especially inhospitable galaxy through new game options, in which case it may be not the worst, but still quite meh.

If you can get the tech to eliminate the approval problems for the UE, I believe that their affinity (And the fact that they naturally get more dust from taxes anyway) is the strongest in the game.



But that being said.....'if'



I really do recommend them if you are going to try an use some kind of tall empire strategy, because you can then ride 60% tax within no time, and all dat money is just good gravy, what ever your next move is.



Edit: Also I will say that the Amoeba is my personal nemesis, the AI always seems to smile a lot......never trust a person who smiles a lot.



And they seem to be fairly good at building a huge empire too!

Already put this in the other topic, but here's the short version-



Note- I think due to how expansion works in this game, that the races which are rewarded or allowed to expand the most, do the best.



So with that in mind



Really good(in no particular order)



Sophons- Great tech, fleet move bonuses are amazing, and their combat downside is a joke. Very easy for them to take off early and never look back. Really could use an actual second problem. As is they are strong and boring.



Amoeba- No downsides whatsoever and perfect information. That + a food and trading bonus. Crazy strong and VERY boring.



Hissho- Expand semi fast early to keep pace until you meet someone. Then eat them for crazy strong bonuses that completely negate any downsides you may have and never look back. At least fun to play.



Cravers- Expand like the plague you are and don't stop. Part of the problem might be that the AI just flat out doesn't seem to understand how to stop cravers(or when to deal with them), but in human hands they're just god machines. Eternal war isn't really even a downside given how they'd likely be killing everyone anyways thanks to their affinity. Humans might be able to better handle their race, but at the same time, it seems rare that you wouldn't all just gang up on them and eliminate them from the start. Even if they were causing issues for a stronger opponent, you run the risk of them winning TOO much and then quickly hitting the point of no return.



Horatio- Their affinity is a "win more". If you get lucky, game is over from the moment you look at the hero screen. If you don't, then your just super powerful. Again this might be partially because the AI doesn't seem to handle stellar guardians well AT ALL. Easy to lock out major chunks of the galaxy and then swallow it up while everyone else is too afraid to go to war with you(because you locked out major sections of the galaxy).



OK



Automatons- Their affinity is VERY powerful, but they can be stopped. If they can manage their threats right they start exploding as they leapfrog from tech to production to tech again, but dealing with hostile forces can put them pretty far behind. Probably one of my favorite races(although I'll never understand why their stock ships aren't sower model instead of craver)



UE/shere- I feel like you almost do better if you ignore their affinity? Expansion/happiness management is just so important that it's not worth having the boosted production. Still when you can use it it's a nice boost. Other than that they have beefy ships and some extra cash. Usually pretty boring.



Flawed-



Pilgrims- I'm not sure I get them, so there's that. I just don't see how to abuse evacuation for any gain. Only saving you from an already lost position. Besides that their bonuses seem really random...or perhaps conflicting? I feel like they make a better war mongering race than the UE.



Sowers- Tolerant has some pretty big issues right now. You essentially gain nothing from it, because by the time you were likely to gain from it you'd have already gotten the tech you needed. This with the two WORST downsides on a default race(fleet movement and tech speed) really makes them a struggle. It's a shame because their affinity should give them some interesting advantages, but you spend too long playing catch up.

The Cravers and Hissho get an active combat bonus, reducing the effect of the Sophon tech lead, and thats if they even have been consistently researching military technology.



If the Hissho get the military tech lead, the Sophons are totally screwed as they won't be able to deploy new military technology fast enough.

Romeo wrote:
I play Huge maps, where the Sophons weak combat potential comes back to bite them in the backside. On top of that, their Affinity is actually eclipsed by what Hissho and Cravers - two non-scientific races - can achieve on top of their excellent combat potential.

Their combat penalty only applies to system invasion,not actual combat though.