IMPORTANT: This is an old thread! The Sowers have come a long way thanks to the devs, and we are satisfied with their current condition for the time being. While balancing could be better all around, to the devs for helping the Sowers out. So please take that into consideration if you feel like voting on a old poll.

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To read up on the Sowers, click here:

http://endlessspace.wikia.com/wiki/Sowers



To get the jest of it, read this basic info:

Traits

Sower Affinity

-50% from System,

40% value is also added to .



Sowers Faction-Specific Technologies



Xenobotany Unlocks the Technology with the same name.

Metallic Waters

+1 on Planet.

+10 on Planet.





Space Cadets -20% on System.

Builders -30% cost of Improvements on empire.

Tolerant Colonizes all planets (-25% untill required tech is known).

Dust Recyclers +10 for each destroyed enemy CP on empire.

Slow Traveler -1 speed on Ships.







This is also the official site for our petition! Post with a if you wish to join!

Traits suggest a tall empire race, less science, more system improvements.



Industry essential to growth, all planets open to colonisation but receive a FIDS penalty until tech researched.



Remedy?

Much earlier terraforming, and less resource dependence on terraforming.

Removes approval penalty on planets without appropriate tech, allows players to spec into industry heavy jungle,arid and desert worlds essential for growth, and then ocean, tundra and Arctic for science.



Suggestion?

Tolerant tech comes with appropriate terraforming tech, Arctic colonisation with Arctic terraforming, Desert colonisation with Desert terraforming.



Players start with terraforming to terran, jungle and ocean with strategic resource dependency in the mid science tree rather then the late science tree, lower terraformning techs follow suit.

Industry costs remain the same, as the builders trait stacks with this.

I like the Terraforming idea. That could really float.



Also, they have a -50% on their system. Could someone please tell me how that wouldn't disable a race?

say a system has 100 food production and 100 industry production as a base.



The -50% turns the system to 50 food production.



But then the 40% added to it leaves the system as:



90 food production, 100 industry production.



Food improvements all receive the -50%, but industry is copied onto food in the end, so industry improvements stack to double as food improvements.

Igncom1 wrote:
say a system has 100 food production and 100 industry production as a base.



The -50% turns the system to 50 food production.



But then the 40% added to it leaves the system as:



90 food production, 100 industry production.

*Scratches head* thats just -10%



Maybe I'm missing something



EDIT: I wrapped my head around it now lol

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
*Scratches head* thats just -10%



Maybe I'm missing something

In the end, yes but the -50% happens before the industry addition.

I might point out too that early terraforming is useless and pointless without the early tech resources to be able to do it.

They do have quite a pumped industry though, which allows them to fare off pretty well despite their -50% food malus. Despite not having tested it in multiplayer, I have been able to win in a 5 empires game on hard difficulty without really straining (vs sowers, amoeba, cravers, sheredyn). Early terraforming does seem like a good alternatve though, but that would require research of strategic resources earlier. Perhaps lower the science penalty

I feel their Affinity is among the weakest and the Tolerant-Trait is almost useless as you wouldn't even want to colonize many planets as early due to the approval-hit.



One thing I wasn't aware of is the Dust-Recyclers-Trait. This emphasizes more aggressive play.



However, I usually play on Serious Difficulty. And while with other races I sometimes win or am getting close to it, with the sowers, I haven't yet been able to compete and mostly was among the underdogs.



Main-problem felt to be approval/income.

The Indusrie buildings are never able to give the same amount of food as the normal food buildings cause Hyper-Agrabuilding is a extrem early and powerfull technology for planet improvment for food.

In fact the normal food buildings are always stronger as their industrie conterpart from which u only gain 40% for food.



Also the low population and the high upkeep cost of the industrie buildings gives them a huge money lack...the tolerant trait could be a very good trait for sowers but the Penalty of FIDS and the Moral malus of T3 and T4 planets is just to high which makes tolerant trait useless at all.



And also T1 Planets are garbage for sowers cause the N-Way Fusion plants is one of the importants buildings for the Sowers in early game and they are almost useless on T1 planets in early game.



i will post more on this topic tonight.



For now:



Sophons Homeworld:





Sowers Homeworld:

Ail wrote:
I feel their Affinity is among the weakest and the Tolerant-Trait is almost useless as you wouldn't even want to colonize many planets as early due to the approval-hit.



One thing I wasn't aware of is the Dust-Recyclers-Trait. This emphasizes more aggressive play.



However, I usually play on Serious Difficulty. And while with other races I sometimes win or am getting close to it, with the sowers, I haven't yet been able to compete and mostly was among the underdogs.



Main-problem felt to be approval/income.

Now that you mention it, i too wasn't aware of it. Looking at their Personality file, they are not intended to fight while their traits begs for them to expand, or at least fight. Need to tweak that in my mod...

As was already hinted at, the game is balanced to be food intensive in the early game. Industry buildings are fewer in number and effect, and higher in expense. Further, Sowers' native homeworld, tundra, gives crappy money returns, so the first few turns of the game they are fighting bankruptcy on top of the food issues. As I already mentioned once, the only hope for the Sowers in the early game is to head strait for desert terraforming, and invest in a universal wasteland. This seems very contrary to the theme of the Sowers, as they are supposed to be 'paradise engineers' for the Endless.



When you make the consideration that, by the late game, most players have all cost effective buildings on their key systems, food and industry alike, and the fact that this will be especially true of a race with the 'Builders' trait, then, in the end, the Affinity is just a handicap, not really an advantage at all. At best, it allows you to focus your colonies on industry as they get started, ignoring food buildings until later. At worst, it is a FIDS penalty, taking up the same slot as such goodies as, say, better science for low taxes AND cheaper colony ships... That is the root of the problem.



To save the Sowers at the root, alter the Affinity. Add an ability to ignore Approval penalties from each planet up to a certain limit (say -10 or -15), so that they can really get some traction out of the Tolerant trait, and so that they can do what they seem that they are meant to do, which is colonize every system they see, spread to each planet, and improve their industry, slowly, methodically, and mercilessly. Something will still have to be done to encourage them to be interested in Tier 1 systems to fall in line with fluff (if you are into that kind of thing), because this solution still doesn't solve the 'terraforming to wasteland' strategy, but at least it would be a start in the right direction.

WELL SAID!



And also with a terraforming to wasteland strategy they got almost to nothing in science...so this only (and totaly contrary to the Lore) strategy even just bring up some new fatal weaknesses. To be honest the sowers has nothing in common with their actual lore...no earlier terraforming...no easier terraforming (without ressources)....no cheaper terraforming....tolerant trait...meh badest trait of all traits and sower dont can realy benefit from it -.-

As an artist, I'm going to be designing an official signature (as soon as midterms are over)



I like the bubble-gum pink that I made the original with, so don't worry. That will be part of the signature.



EDIT: We passed 10,000 G2G on the petition! Either leave a mark here or join the group!

The sowers really need improvement, right now they are clearly behind every other faction. They are unpleasant to play as and always the weakest AI faction in every game

The signature code is now up to copy and paste!

The_Quasar wrote:
I might point out too that early terraforming is useless and pointless without the early tech resources to be able to do it.

However, because of their industry bonus they may be able to do it before all is said and done. I think it would have to be tested.

I Have to agree they need a boost!!!

You have my support.

Saving the Sowers.

I think they should be given a better load out so that they are even more neutral to be honest. More of a balance between military and industry, and maybe the ability to get a bonus from terra-forming or something like that.