I like the ideas given here, and I'm actually quite fond of the heroes in charge of systems. As that would ad some flavour to your empire. But firstly in order to implement that, there needs to be greater hero diversity. Also as mentioned elsewhere, you could have a situation where you capture an enemy star system, treat the population nicely. And have the possibility of getting an alien hero next time you can recruit.

Being able to retrain heroes and they're basic skills of pilot and whatnot would be a godsend.

It could be made to take a while, but being able to reskill them would just be too useful.

This has been raised before, and I agree. Not sure if it will be done, it would allow us to become far more attached to our heroes. I would also like to see some sort of carry-over from game to game on the academy.

Dr_Mox wrote:
I dont think I'd show up for work and call in sick every day

That's right, but who knows what passes for medicine in Craver culture... regardless of whether you're really sick or not, Craver doctors would probably want to amputate something just to be on the safe side... and then roast it...

Calico wrote:
yeah, when i would be a Hero in service of the cravers, i'd likely be afraid of lunch time. And breakfast. And supper. Every single day.

I dont think I'd show up for work and call in sick every day after that whilst looking for the next flight to the other side of the galaxy...



Yes indeed! More does need to be done in the beta for the Hero system like whats been suggested. Much like the Alignment discussion about how to deal with different factions pops after a successful invasion, as well as all the Diplomacy discussion.



A rather big Dev point hole opening up with these themes atm. Looking forward to seeing more content to help flesh things out more.

yeah, when i would be a Hero in service of the cravers, i'd likely be afraid of lunch time. And breakfast. And supper. Every single day.

You're absolutely right ElegantCavemen, some factions should experience restrictions on heroes. For example, the Cravers should not have it easy recruiting non-Craver heroes, since they're such a destructive force/faction that "sane" non-Cravers would only accept being hired by the Cravers if it's really worth the risk, i.e. only adventurer/mercenary types who are after large amounts of money/pay.... though even mercs wouldn't necessarily want to work for someone who would gladly eat them, right?

ElegantCaveman wrote:
I'd also like to see more hero-based faction traits (positive and negative). Cravers, for example, could have a "Can only hire Craver heroes" negative trait, but they'd have a positive trait that would allow them to enslave defeated heroes and put them to work (though perhaps these slave-heroes could have a stat penalty to reflect their reluctance, and they would accrue experience slower).

Another rational for they're penalties would be fear of being eaten or they're focusing on making escape plans and sabotage.

Heroes seem to be overpowered already as they are equally adept at gun-slinging and sod-busting. Send an administrator on a few battles, boost his combat skills, then send him back to desk jockey and boost his green thumb skills. Repeat ad nauseum. The bonus / mallus mechanism seems to have escaped the hero area of the game. Good administrators should be poor fighters, period. The Academy would be the place to decrease a malus. Suppose you are not at war with anyone and you want your awesome commander to help develop a new system. He would be terrible at first, so have him spend some time in the academy to "learn" how to balance a budget or rotate crops.



Heroes should not start with two unrelated classes. Actually, they should not start with two classes period (except for late-game arrivals). This is where the Academy could really shine. You want your hero to have two class abilities? It'll cost you lots of time in the Academy to get it. You want to specialize a hero's existing class? Fine, but more techs need to be researched first. I'm not a big fan of relying solely on XP to develop heroes.



Surely the devs have some grand scheme for the Academy - I can't imagine they would leave it as just a lobby. Perhaps many of these suggestions are already planned but they need time to watch how players are creatively vs. logically vs. randomly developing the pre-fab heroes. Or perhaps the idea of heroes came later in the game's development and as such has not yet had time to be fully integrated. Whatever the case, I'm sure we'll be more satisfied with the Academy after release. (Please. Pretty please, with sugar on top.)

No idea how many there are, but one thing I'd love to see is your faction choice affecting, in some way, hero availability.



I find it strange, for example, hiring Craver heroes when I play any other race, or heroes from any other race when I play the Cravers.



Some heroes shouldn't be available to some races, and some heroes might cost more to hire depending on your race vs. theirs ("I don't like you... but if you pay me enough..."). Things like that.



I'd also like to see more hero-based faction traits (positive and negative). Cravers, for example, could have a "Can only hire Craver heroes" negative trait, but they'd have a positive trait that would allow them to enslave defeated heroes and put them to work (though perhaps these slave-heroes could have a stat penalty to reflect their reluctance, and they would accrue experience slower).

Thats's right, there need to be far more heroes available. Does anyone know off the top of their head how many heroes are currently available or planned by the devs per faction? If it's something like 10 each and some are shared between the various factions (for example when you conquer an enemy system and peacefully integrate the alien population into your empire) then maybe there already exist enough?

Heroes could have a third assignment choice: attend the academy. Suppose all your random heroes had the pilot perk but you really wanted an administrator. Send 'em off to college! A hero could be assigned to the academy for, oh, say 10~20 turns to learn a new skill. The player could then choose which of the hero's two existing perks would be replaced by a new perk of your choice. To make this more interesting, various technologies would need to be researched first to allow the perk you want to be studied at the academy. For example, you must have researched Planetary Landscaping and Extreme Metallurgy before the Administrator perk is available at the academy. Or better yet, make some new techs to research specifically for the academy. The same could be done for Corporate or Pilot or Commander. The desire to exploit this could be countered by not allowing the hero to gain XP while assigned to the academy yet you would still have to pay him. Do you really want to spend the extra turns learning new skills or do you just want to send him in "as is"? Could help late game heroes when having an administrator is no longer needed but another Commander is!

Exactly. In my eyes diplomacy shouldn't be confined to the diplomacy menu but should be something that can be affected through a wide range of things (among them other things which I have suggested in the forums and would like to see implemented in the game) for example whether you are generous enough to let a beaten fleet withdraw rather than destroying every last ship even though you could; to release a captured enemy hero who may be thrown right back at you by the enemy and you release him regardless; and to capture planets and not exterminate the local alien population but rather integrating them in your society, culture and empire... such upright conduct should then go on to impress the other factions, which then maybe offer advantagious things to you like trade, alliances etc.... now that would be true diplomacy!

n18991c wrote:
- perhaps the ability to capture an enemy hero when the planet he is on is conquered? Would be nice to be able to decide between, say, the option to "give him his freedom", "release him in return for a ransom", "detain/imprison for x turns", "bribe/recruit" or "execute as traitor" or something like that!

Very interesting suggestion. I especially like the diplomatic potential that could bring to the table. How you treat captured/vanquished heroes would influence your relationship with the faction.

I love that idea : but it would need some serious tweaking of the level up mechanic.

For instance the base stats could only be learnt through academy learning, and then the level up would give a skill to choose which would be really a skill (a new card, production bonus on a system, reduced accuracy for enemies, etc.)

Perhaps the academy should be refined to contain a mix of all the things which have been suggested so far:



- the ability to specialize your academy to recruit some, but by far not all, groups. I think it would be best if one was able to recruit/train more than one group (maybe two?), since an empire needs, for example, both administrators and military officers/commanders. Or, alternatively, administrators and science specialists and so on..



- a trait system of virtues and vices - a hero remaining in some backwater system for 200 turns should not be as "good" as a hero who is proactively participating in shaping the empire's future, constantly risking his life on the frontlines and administering new and exotic (and possibly conquered) systems



- perhaps the ability to capture an enemy hero when the planet he is on is conquered? Would be nice to be able to decide between, say, the option to "give him his freedom", "release him in return for a ransom", "detain/imprison for x turns", "bribe/recruit" or "execute as traitor" or something like that!



- I'd also like a form of "hall of heroes" in which one can place statues or the like for the vanquished heroes which one was particularly fond of...



What do you think?

I never use governor AI in any 4x, so this isn't a feature I'd ever use, personally. As such, I'm biased against it. But I admit I like the suggestion, if only out of principle for the fact that I love the idea of giving them more personality and presence. I'm a micro-obsessed control freak, so... no way am I letting anybody else control my systems... But that's just me. Maybe there would be a way to do something like this without relinquishing control, but somehow having a hero's "personality" have more of an impact on a system when they're governor. I'd definitely look forward to seeing that.



As for traits, I really like that idea. Traits for heroes (both positive and negative) is not an uncommon thing in strategy games that have them, and it's something I always enjoy, as it gives them personality and helps bring them to life beyond simply their stats and class.



For example, in my present game, the last three heroes that came to my academy all have the same class combination, and two of them even have the same picture. If they had traits, at least that would give them a bit more flavor.



Heroes would start with a couple of random traits, and they could win/lose them, maybe, as the game progresses. The way we use them, as you say.



A lot of it would be random, but some traits could only be acquired under specific circumstances.



For example, if your hero is leading a fleet, and you -barely- win a battle (most of your ships destroyed, the few remaining ones severely damaged), there could be a trait related to that (Positive Trait: "Cocky" - he now thinks he's invincible, his positive attitude & reputation gives a morale boost to a fleet he controls, which could translate into a small % bonus to defense. Negative Trait: "Paranoid" - after his close call, he's now worried about dying every time he fights, so he takes less chances, which adversely affects his strategies, giving a small % penalty to offense).



Or if he's defeated and he dies, the whole cloning/regeneration process could trigger a chance for a trait (positive or negative). Imagine if there was this really good positive trait that you could only get after dying, and there was just a small chance for it. You might not mind dying nearly as much, even act recklessly sometimes in the hope of getting it.

ElegantCaveman wrote:
Nothing else comes readily to mind... but I don't know... maybe something to bring the heroes to life more? They all have biographies, they all have personalities (kind of)... it would be cool if that could be built on in some way...

A way to give them more personality, more presence to the game could be to give them entire control of systems. Instead of the option to let the IA manage systems, it would be the heroes that would do that, picking choices of management according to their own personalities and specializations. To ensure that they are given entire control, once they are put in command of the system, they can't be dismissed for a certain number of turns (15 at the very least) and they earn more xp that way to encourage players to put them in charge.



Another way to give them personalities would be to give them unique traits that enhance their abilities (or diminish them). These traits could be earned randomly, or earned through the way we use them, and the maluses could even be bought with dust.



What do you think ?

Also an interesting approach. I like the idea of "specialization" like that. Basically putting up a poster, "Now recruiting administrators!", which would raise the chance of getting one next time you get a new hero. One doesn't stop the other, though: I'd still like to have Academy-specific options for existing heroes.

I think it would be better to guive an orientation to your academy more than to your hero. For example I wana have administator hero, then I choose this orientation for my academy and hero wich are more oriented in administration will pop out