Campana wrote:
Exactly that! Btw, how many Nosferatiel clones opulation: opulation: opulation: opulation: are currently posting on the forum right now?

I'm no Horatio, but with at least 10 tabs open, looking at several hundred proposal titles, sometimes reading something, then clicking "Post quick reply" on 10 threads in a span of two seconds for every sweep he's done.

Spero42 wrote:
Pardon me for re-upping a 2-week-old post, but I followed Nos's link from /#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/12192-fleet-doctrine-an-additional-level-of-combat-interactivity.

You don't need to be pardoned. Anything not in the archives or closed is always allowed to be reupped.

That's why I'm so rigorously sorting.

What like?

Supercharged Magnetics: Increases Kinetic accuracy during the phase (Medium-long) to what it would be in the short range phase, but prevents other weapons from firing during the phase, and prevents kinetics from firing during the next phase to recuperate.

Dont know about chain events with specific cards but more cards and probably moving cards would be nice, especially if they make weapons to work better at specific distances

FTL Flanking: used in long-range phase and countered by offensive: Select 2 ships to micro-jump behind enemy fleet for the melee phase reducing enemy defensive ability by 20%, the main fleet must stay alive till the melee phase for this to work. Counters engineering.



Cards effect lasts as long as ships on either side are alive.

Pardon me for re-upping a 2-week-old post, but I followed Nos's link from /#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/12192-fleet-doctrine-an-additional-level-of-combat-interactivity.



After reading several suggestions about fleet maneuverability cards (the above, /#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13492-suggestion-navigation-cards-after-conventional-combat-ends, etc.), I think there is a simpler, more "dev-friendly" solution. I've seen the idea kicked about in an offhand manner, but not as a formal suggestion.



Navigation cards, rather than being a secondary level to combat, can simply be implemented as cards in the current system. Their primary effects would be to lengthen and shorten the current phase of combat. It seems, to me, simple enough to incorporate, though I'm obviously not any kind of expert on dev matters.



If I understand it correctly, each phase of combat is divided into "rounds" of fire exchange (I think 4 of them, but I'm uncertain). With that in mind, there would be two basic cards:



Close In

Shortens length of current phase by two rounds.



Keep Your Distance

Increases length of current phase by two rounds.



If both sides play the same card, it still only reduces/increases the phase by two rounds. If the sides play opposing cards, they simply cancel out, and the phase remains the same. This can be done on any phase of combat.



I originally thought that there should perhaps be some offense or defense bonuses/penalties applied as well, but the more I think about it, the more it seems unnecessary. After all, these maneuver cards can be played in lieu of offense/defense/sabotage cards. Therefore, if a fleet decides to focus on maneuvering, they lose the opportunity to play a beneficial card.



Ultimately, these maneuvers are beneficial and disadvantageous in a balanced way inherently. After all, it is not easy to know what kind of weapons you'll necessarily be dealing with, so shortening/lengthening the long phase could be massively beneficial (you have missiles, they have kinetic) or massively harmful (you have a balanced weapons load, they have lasers) or completely noneffective (you both have similar loadouts).



As for the advantage of playing Close In in melee range, it would reduce the length of the phase, and perhaps save some missile-focused ships. Obviously Kinetic-focused ships would reap huge advantage by playing Keep Your Distance in the melee phase.



I hope I've explained this clearly enough.

How about having some cards in your "hand" be based on ship class? More specifically, larger ships getting special cards based on survivability.



This would encourage more fleet diversity, and might even solve some of the other batttle longevity problems if balanced right.

I'm always willing to explore new ideas for cards. It would be great to see more in game.

Kick into Overdrive: Forces all combat phases to be Long Range, by pushing the engines to the limit so that distance can be maintained. After the battle is concluded, the fleet can't move for one turn, since all movement points have been drained by this card.



Take a Chance: An "gamble" strategy, this card forces both sides into playing three randomized cards, one for each phase, regardless of whether or not they met the prerequisite of using these cards. Eliminates any chosen cards from being played, and can't be chosen after the arrival phase.

Numbers are purely cosmetic; they are just examples. Also, I've added another phase (on my mind, at least) where you have time to pick a card for the Arrival Phase aswell. Some cards require some ship modules on the fleet, otherwise, you won't have access to them. I didn't think much on these cards, just tried to give some examples... So, please don't judge them with "this card is stupid/useless/OP" on mind, as they are just examples.



Arrival Phase

Examples for some card-chaining, and phase-specific cards below. These card are openers, with most of them applying their effects on the next (long-range) phase...



-Decoy

Tactics, counters Engineering

Requires Holographic Projectors in the fleet

Ships project holographic images of additional targets, capable of emulating ship signatures, which causes confusion on enemy systems.



Visual effect:

-Generates projections



General Effects:

+25% HP added as armor on Long-Range Phase

+10% HP added as armor on Short-Range Phase

General & visual effects vanish completely at Melee Phase



Chain Effects:

-10% HP subtracted from armor on LR Phase if followed by an offense card (lowering the bonus to 15%, so to speak)

-If Camouflage card is played & not countered, ships that get destroyed while the both Camouflage & Decoy effects are active will survive with 5% HP (so, you can save ships on SR Phase aswell)



-In-Depth Scanners

Engineering, counters Sabotage

Requires long-range scanners in the fleet

Ship scanners are tweaked to scan for anomalies aswell, which would possibly detect cloaked vessels.



Visual effects:

-Detects cloaking (due to counter)



General effects:

+20% Min/Max Weapon damage (identifying weakspots on the enemy ships)



Chain effects:

+20% additional Min/Max Weapon damage when followed by a Tactics card

-15% Interception, Absorption & Deflection efficiency on Enemy ships when followed by a Sabotage card

If an Offense card is played after this, it also counters Defense cards (sounds unique enough, eh?)



-Cloaking

Sabotage, counters Offense

Requires cloaking generators

Ships cloak themselves, waiting to bait enemies for an ambush.



Visual effects:

-If not countered, ships will not be visible at the Arrival Phase.

-They'll decloak once LR Phase starts.



General effects:

+10% Critical chance for weapons on the next phase (surprise!)

-15% Deflect, Interception & Absorption efficiency on the next phase (it takes time for defense systems to get up and running after decloaking)



Chain effects:

+15% additional Critical chance when followed by a Tactics or Offense card

+15% Deflect, Interception & Absorption efficiency when followed by a Defense or Engineering card (negating the penalties, in other words)

-10% Enemy Weapon Accuracy when followed by a Sabotage card



-Barrage Fire

Offense, counters Tactics

Ships fire a salvo barrage towards the enemy direction.



Visual effects:

-Ships will start firing at Arrival Phase which will destroy projections (but due to very long range, no effect on real ships)

-No visual effect if gets countered (naturally)



General effects:

+10% Accuracy on the next phase (weapons are calibrated towards enemy position)



Chain effects:

+15% additional Accuracy on the next phase when followed by an Offense card



Melee Phase

-Boarding Pods (I know, making this would be much more challenging than making the stuff I wrote above, but gotta keep thinking!)

Offense, counters Defense

Requires Boarding Pods on the fleet



Visual Effects:

-Boarding pods are launched to enemy ships like missiles.



Random Effects:

-If enemy defenses are bypassed, applies one random negative effect (-50% accuracy, -25% defense efficiency, etc...)



Chain Effects:

-If played after a Sabotage card, ignores enemy defenses.



There is one problem with this card-chaining idea however. You won't have enough time to study the cards while on the battlefield, so a pause/interrupt button is somewhat necessary for them to work smoothly, till you get used to them... But aside from that, I think it'd be a cool idea. Aswell as, some opener cards on Arrival with visual-heavy effects, and effects that will last longer than just one phase.



So, what do you think?

Nosferatiel wrote:
You mean the Picard maneuver? Sounds like it. XD

Exactly that! Btw, how many Nosferatiel clones opulation: opulation: opulation: opulation: are currently posting on the forum right now?

Campana wrote:
Micro-jump: your fleet engages the enemy at melee range during the current phase.

You mean the Picard maneuver? Sounds like it. XD

Nosferatiel wrote:
See the second link of the posted ones: I think that is a bit in the direction of what you're thinking.

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13492-suggestion-navigation-cards-after-conventional-combat-ends

Yes, something like that.



What I would actually like to see is some way of making kinetic weapons a more attractive option. I've never bothered with them because they supposedly work best in the melee range and few battles actually reach that point, as they're almost always decided during the long or mid range phase.



How about something like...



Micro-jump: your fleet engages the enemy at melee range during the current phase.



And perhaps a counter card that does the opposite. I've no idea how the battle system works behind the scenes though, so don't have a clue what is possible or not.

See the second link of the posted ones: I think that is a bit in the direction of what you're thinking.

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13492-suggestion-navigation-cards-after-conventional-combat-ends

Would it be possible to have a card which can shorten or lengthen one of the phases? e.g. if you are a missile fleet you could play a card which makes the long phase last longer, or a fleet with kinetic/beam weapons could try and make it shorter.

This thread is the origin of discussions about including more cards into the current combat system.

Other threads about this have been archived:

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13348-suggestion-battle-mechanic-negotiation-card

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13492-suggestion-navigation-cards-after-conventional-combat-ends.

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13867-larger-battle-card-variety-race-specific-battle-cards



Feel free to post here about this topic here and inform yourself about the variations the threads listed above have already discussed, but don't open new suggestion threads for anything alike.

I like those ideas ! Especially the chain effects mechanism ! It'd allow the combat cards to interact with the opponent's ones (such as a rock-paper-scissors game) and with the following combat cards the player uses ... I'd love when I play Sophons (for example) to unlock several combat cards, when I go through science tree, to build up strategies to strenghten my fleets... 'Cause I'm not a very good ship builder... But I don't think increase the number of combat cards is absolutly needed. It'd be fun for sure but I fear it'd be too much. Could we add some cool effects you suggested to a combat cards combination ? For instance if I use a Tactics card during the Long-range phase, then a Sabotage card and a Offense card I could start a boarding battle ; or if I use three time a sabotage card I could end the battle at Melee range by cloacking my fleet. I dunno.



(sorry for my maybe-really-bad english. I'm not used to write in this language )