Hello everyone,



Something shocked me about the recuitment of heroes. Not technically speeking, everything looks good, but isn't it weird to be able to recruit "foreign" heroes?



I am a proud Human of the mighty Empire and what? Should I be under the command of this creepy Craver that came from nowhere? But wait, what is a Craver?!, we did not even quit our home planet!



... quite strange isn't it?



I do not know if it is a bug or the developpers'will, but maybe it should be more coherent (from a RolePlay point of view) to be able to recruit foreign heroes only after you encounter them?



PS: Please, do not see any kind of galactic racism in my speech, it is absolutly not the point (hem, I'm joking of course ^^')

Sadi wrote:
Hello everyone,



Something shocked me about the recuitment of heroes. Not technically speeking, everything looks good, but isn't it weird to be able to recruit "foreign" heroes?



I am a proud Human of the mighty Empire and what? Should I be under the command of this creepy Craver that came from nowhere? But wait, what is a Craver?!, we did not even quit our home planet!



... quite strange isn't it?



I do not know if it is a bug or the developpers'will, but maybe it should be more coherent (from a RolePlay point of view) to be able to recruit foreign heroes only after you encounter them?



PS: Please, do not see any kind of galactic racism in my speech, it is absolutly not the point (hem, I'm joking of course ^^')

Quoted from an old hero creation competition thread:

Slowhands wrote:
And on a more philosophical note:



Heroes are different from the rest of their societies in their capacity to use Dust, the partially-sentient nanoparticles created by the Endless. To master it requires great emotional stability as well as a intimate knowledge of and control over one's own strengths and weaknesses. When a sentient being is 'infected' by Dust they generally end up dead or insane, as they are emotionally or physically incapable of absorbing and controlling it.



The effect of the Dust is particularly difficult for hive-like races or factions that suppress the individual identity within the group (Craver, Horatio, ...). The one who is affected is no longer one of a group and an entity whose character is based on their society, but a unique and different individual with enormous and unusual power. The odds of surviving this psychological tsunami is proportionally more difficult for these types of 'hive-mind' beings.



For all of these reasons, Heroes often become misfits in their previous lives and their own societies, and easily make the transition to being independent consultants (or mercenaries -- there is a fine line between those two in space).



So when Horatio 'offers' the 'gift' of Dust to a follower, it is not pure altruism, and might even be done to remove someone that displeases.



Does this give you some more inspiration?

Heroes are not akin to their own race, according to the lore. So it does make sense.

I didn't know that (so thanks for the quote) and I understand, but until the two races meet each-other, it is not coherent to recruit a "stranger".

I see heroes as mercenaries who dont really cares who they serve

Unfortunately, I share the opinion of the author of this post. If I could suggest something to the designers it would be :



1. On the 3 heroes displayed, at least 1 (or 2) should be of the player's race. A bit similar system as the Heroes of Might & Magic recruitment system in taverns. Such a system would allow both the players who care about consistency and those who don't to be somehow happy.



2. Allow the user to choose any heros portrait (and associated name) he would like over the stats available, so again both RP and non RP players would be happy, and the gameplay won't be affected* (just allow a change of portrait over the default one upon recruitment).



* This considering there is no such thing as "specific heroes with specific stats for each race", if there was, then I would still like to change the portrait/name - lol. Also the hero's history/profile may then be an issue with the 2nd concept.



That is of course a detail.

This thread is the origin of all discussions aiming at getting a hero pool solely out of the own race.

Other threads about this have been archived:

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13579-suggestion-heroes-from-different-species

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13368-suggestion-starting-heroes-and-faction

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13374-suggestion-heroes-should-be-locked-to-their-corresponding-race

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13589-suggestion-restrict-your-hero-pool-to-your-own-race-races-you-re-at-peace-with

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13740-suggestion-race-specific-heros

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13779-suggestion-initial-hero-selection-limited-by-race-expands-by-diplomacy

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13781-original-three-heroes-should-be-of-your-own-race

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13843-race-specific-heros

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13879-initial-race-specific-heroes

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13898-hero-s-that-match-your-race



Feel free to post here about this topic here and inform yourself about the variations the threads listed above have already discussed, but don't open new suggestion threads for anything alike.

My vote is for your starting three Heroes to be of your race then randomize the additional heroes as they come in.



I really just want racial heroes leading my fleets and planets to start.

What 'bout this:

You only have heroes from your race, and from those you have discovered.



e.g.

You play as Horatio vs 4 other factions

You meet the Sophons -> now their heroes are available too.

Nobody plays as United Empire, so you can't have their heroes in this match.

Agree with the original poster and adder

Horatio should have three heroes to choose from - Horatio, Horatio and Horatio.

It doesn't matter if the two races meet each other - it's not like the hero is living on one of your rival's planets or something. The Heroes are wandering the galaxy offering their services.



I'd actually like to see an "Independant" faction for heroes that any faction can hire, along with heroes from their own faction, but it seems like all the heroes are already independents.

Zor wrote:
I see heroes as mercenaries who dont really cares who they serve

As I said in one of the other threads, I agree with this sentiment. They are mercenaries. They are providing you with their gifted services in exchange for Dust. And as for any connection to their race's civilization, remember they are generally considered outcasts.



If anything regarding heroes needs changing, it is that we call them "heroes." They need a more neutral title, like "Leaders" or something.

I suggested this possible solution in this thread:

As such, perhaps some kind of weighted percentage chance to what heroes you can get - a heavy positive modifier to race-specific heroes, a slight one favouring those of the same 'diplomatic alignment', and a negative one to those of opposing alignments.

Could be made optional at the start of a new game, for those who want their Sophons to be easily able to hire a Hissho admiral.

As a side note: I think this might actually mean that diplomatic alignment would finally have more of an impact than it does now, at least in terms of "narrative plausibility".



It is kind of interesting to have non-race specific heroes, and since the lore technically implies that the races have had some degree of contact before the game begins there's no massively pressing reason to restrict starting heroes.



However I would really love to see some kind of ranked weighting system for which heroes get generated for you based on your faction. It would just help with immersion.





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Additonally, whilst the explanation that they're mercenaries might work for some, reading the descriptions makes it very clear that they are only a (admittedly significant) minority.

The explanation that they've been hounded out of their societies seems to be more an ex post facto justification for oddly-distributed heroes than an actual reflection of the existing character descriptions.

• A number of Horatio heroes are referred to as being created intentionally; or their flaws and imperfections are tolerated by Horatio because of their abilities with Dust.
• Cravers are often outcasts, or found floating in wrecks, but at least one is described as still being part of Craver society (albeit its less-than-ravenous tendencies are again tolerated rather than applauded).
• UE tend to be described neutrally, but with the implication on most that they're war heroes, or that Dust has improved their career prospects within some corporation or other.
• Then there's Amoeba and Sowers, who are much the same as the UE - exceptional individuals, with little or no mention about stigma and more than a few being described in terms of valued individuals within their empire.
• Pilgrims are outcasts - but from their previous society. Often their fugitive status is cited as why they joined the Pilgrims. And that's in addition to the fact that many in their society follow a kind of quasi-worship of the Endless - so why would they reject and stigmatise those affected by Dust and who are thus presumably 'closer to the Endless'?
  
  

And this is to say nothing of those created by the community and put up for voting, which follow the same general trend.





As someone pointed out in that previous (more recent and at the time still active) thread:

"stars2heaven" wrote:
Think about the Cravers. Who in their right mind would work for them except another craver? It's a dead end career choice....literally.

I can sort of see a Hissho working for them - signing up to work for the only race more warlike than the Hissho themselves might be seen as a way to attain glorious battle.

But why on earth was there a Sophon and an amoeba eager to work for me when I played Cravers?

The player's faction (and possibly alignment) ought to have some bearing on or relationship to the heroes available, based on their species' faction (& poss. alignment).



Right now I'm playing a game as Pilgrims, and have two Craver heroes, a Horatio, a Sower and only one actual Pilgrim. It just seems odd.