[Suggestion] Double Missile ROF; Halve Missile Damage

Kreios

Newcomer

29 400g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 5, 2012, 2:59:26 AM

1) Reduce missile damage by 50%.

2) Increase missile rate of fire by 100%.

3) Reduce missile flight time by one round.

4) Modify flak? (see below)

Under the proposed changes, missiles would fire in rounds 1 and 3, and strike their targets in rounds 2 and 4. Now, I'm not 100% sure if this also requires flak to be altered slightly, since I don't know if flak affects missiles in flight turns or just on the impact turn.

A large part of almost any fleet's defence revolves around killing enemy ships to remove sources of damage. The exception to this is missiles, which fire in round 1 but don't kill anything until round 3, leaving all other weapons on both sides to grind down the fleets, and many missiles are wasted because the target is already destroyed. Doubling missile rate of fire reduces the likelihood of wasted missiles, and maintains their flavour as powerful, slow weapons while discarding the "all-or-nothing" feel that they have now.

rickynumber24

Newcomer

rickynumber24

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 11, 2012, 5:12:05 AM

I'm pretty sure flaks shoot down missiles every round, although I haven't tested it extremely rigorously... so, instead of firing three times at launched missiles, they would now fire only twice.

Honestly, I'm not sure what to do about flaks, though, because the flak/missile balance and its interactions with heroes and defense boosters exerts a significant pressure to use lower-tech versions: the one to swamp defenses, and the other to increase shots per ton.

Maybe we could have upper-tier missiles fire at the faster rate and travel time and keep the lower ones the way they are? (Maybe also give upper tier flaks the ability to fire twice, instead of the increasingly ridiculous and useless to-hit bonuses...) That might be really hard to implement from a combat logic standpoint, though. (I'd think graphics just skips the part where the missiles are in flight and would slow launch and terminal maneuvers.) Personally, I'd put the cutoff at around when the modules fit in twice the tonnage of the basic modules, just to keep them relevant.

sp0q

Newcomer

sp0q

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 11, 2012, 8:29:26 AM

Technology tree could get additional techs providing more advanced launchers to cut the reload time.

davea

Newcomer

davea

Newcomer

700g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 11, 2012, 3:36:34 PM

It "should be possible" to create a mod to try this out. The xml is available and at least two players have released mods:

/#/endless-space/forum/37-modding/thread/15801-released-community-bug-fix-balance-mod

rickynumber24

Newcomer

rickynumber24

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 11, 2012, 4:07:04 PM

davea wrote:
It "should be possible" to create a mod to try this out. The xml is available and at least two players have released mods:

/#/endless-space/forum/37-modding/thread/15801-released-community-bug-fix-balance-mod

That's a good idea!

Also, maybe we should get a group together to toy around with these changes at some regularly-set time. (Probably want to organize it in your mod thread, though.)

davea

Newcomer

davea

Newcomer

700g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 11, 2012, 4:13:28 PM

I'll put it on my list to mod, but it is at position #5. Others can mod, or learn to mod also.

MODNosferatiel

Informer

"God's in his heaven, all's right with the world." Nerv Motto, Neon Genesis Evangelion

MODNosferatiel

Informer

47 300g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 23, 2012, 10:30:23 PM

This thread is the origin of discussions about increasing the missile firerate.

Other threads about this have been archived:

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13915-multiple-missile-salvos

Feel free to post here about this topic here and inform yourself about the variations the threads listed above have already discussed, but don't open new suggestion threads for anything alike.

MNOne

Newcomer

MNOne

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 26, 2012, 12:10:15 AM

+1 to this; in part to revive a lagging suggestion discussion.

I don't think techs are necessarily the answer, as they would throw off some of the balancing (i.e. where does the tech go on the tree? How does it relate lower-tier missiles to higher-ones? Does flak manage to keep pace or does it suddenly become swamped once you have this tech?)

I think flak might need to have it's fire rate upped to keep in line with the increased number of missiles, but I'm not sure...

Draco18s

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Draco18s

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6 000g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 26, 2012, 5:26:55 PM

MNOne wrote:
I think flak might need to have it's fire rate upped to keep in line with the increased number of missiles, but I'm not sure...

It all depends on whether or not flak attempts to kill a missile every phase-round, or not (meaning that shorter flight time would be in favor of flak, but more missile salvos would be in favor of...missiles)

MNOne

Newcomer

MNOne

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 27, 2012, 1:14:00 PM

True. If it were every round it might even out if you lowered flak's accuracy or number of shots.

From the way it appears on the battle screen though it looks like it only fires in the round where the missiles actually hit (which kind of makes sense since flak wouldn't really have the range to reach halfway between the fleets) but that might just be the way it's rendered rather than an accurate representation of the mechanics happening behind the scenes. If that were the case you'd need to improve the number of flak shots, perhaps, or lower the evasion on missiles (though that doesn't really seem to have much of an effect in anycase as far as I can see).

ruonim

Path Finder

Best signature ever!

ruonim

Path Finder

19 100g2g pts

13 years ago

Jul 28, 2012, 7:31:53 PM

Flak fires 3 times in 1 phase. Go check 18 luncher vs 6 flak. 0 missiles land.

MNOne

Newcomer

MNOne

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 31, 2012, 4:44:27 PM

So it would either need to fire twice (once at each salvo, when they impact) or four times (twice at each salvo, in the round they approach and the round they impact).

What else about the flak would need to be adjusted in either case to balance it up? Perhaps increase the accuracy a fraction in the first instance, perhaps lower the accuracy in the second.

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