Another thing which would go hand in hand with the standardization would be to increase the pool of heroes. During normal gameplay I had to basically recruit 90% of them anyways. With having 5 heroes at the beginning you would actually have a choice which one to pick. And not just which one to pick first.



More choices and less riding the RNG train.

I think the best fix to heroes is not allow them to be available until several turns into the game. Maybe at around the same time pirates start to spawn.

How about having 4 different starting conditions independent of game difficulty?

Condition one is totally random that way it is now.

Condition two is having an random system with a good hero.

Condition three is having a good system with a random hero.

Condition four is having a good system with a good hero.



This can be applied to SP and MP (if all sides agree).



How does that look?

I would love to see this not be added, instead I would like there to be a major advantage to not using heroes at all.



Take that majority!

I would prefer to have set hero attributes for the beginning of games( 1 admin, 1 corporate, 1 fleet). Esp since adventurer class is useless. I would also prefer it if the starting heroes were of your faction or atleast had a higher probability of being of your faction, but this is far less important than the balancing issues behind randomized hero classes.

It is most detrimental to your early game if you lack an administrator.

I second the suggestion of having an Administrator/XXX, a Corporate/XXX and a Pilot/XXX as starting heroes since all three of them are critical to one task each - starting up/maintaining difficult systems, trade, combat.



I honestly would not want to miss any one of those at the start because it would mean that I am severely lacking in one area. With some faction more so than others.

Thaeric wrote:
It's bad enough having to restart over and over to get a decent starting hero and system. Sure you eventually get a decent start but it's a pain to have to keep recreating games for something that seems pretty easy to fix. The issue is compounded significantly when dealing with multiplayer games - assuming you're playing with people that are trust worthy enough to admit when they have 1 decent hero instead of try to get 3 or something. The more people you're trying to get a admin/corp hero the worse it gets.



I wrote up a couple suggestions my friends and I came up with in another thread which was archived since I didn't find this one...

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13923-for-heros-at-start

I resent that. I'm always honest about my heroes



Beyond that though, I wholeheartedly agree, not being able to choose your starting hero, or at least have a guaranteed administrator in the mix is absolutely awful.

It's bad enough having to restart over and over to get a decent starting hero and system. Sure you eventually get a decent start but it's a pain to have to keep recreating games for something that seems pretty easy to fix. The issue is compounded significantly when dealing with multiplayer games - assuming you're playing with people that are trust worthy enough to admit when they have 1 decent hero instead of try to get 3 or something. The more people you're trying to get a admin/corp hero the worse it gets.



I wrote up a couple suggestions my friends and I came up with in another thread which was archived since I didn't find this one...

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13923-for-heros-at-start

For multiplayer games I would love to see that each gets at lease one admin, one corporate, and one fleet.



Just to remove that possible crippling lack of one

I would just like to put forward a scenario regarding hero imbalance.

(This has probably been covered already, but it is very important if it hasn't)



[TLDR]



At least one industry hero needs to be made available guaranteed to all factions at the beginning of the game or other hero types must be improved to compensate for the loss of not having an industry hero.



[TLDR]





The game begins, and immediately look at the hero academy, the available choices of hero available are as follows



your faction has available:

corporate/pilot

corporate/pilot

fleet/pilot



(if you consider playing with the hand you've been dealt, that's fine you're a masochist but please do carry on, but at least consider what the following races were dealt)



Horatio has available:

industry/corporate

coporate/fleet

coporate/fleet



Pilgrims has available:

industry/fleet

industry/spy

coporate/spy



------------------



By turn 3, all factions can buy their first hero.



But by turn 3 turns pilgrims can have a hero with at the very least +26 flat industry output, this can be used to churn out

industry buildings on home planet and trade goods until their second industry hero can be purchased, (within 5 more turns)

granting 2 planets with +25-30 industry on top of standard bonuses within the first 10 turns.



The Horatio have a similar advantage but it takes a little longer for their initial hero to level up to +25 industry but when it does, it can be immediately cloned.

That early game bonus is game breaking, and they can rotate their heroes every time a new colony is set up (becoming even more effective when +20 food is added) but there is nothing wrong with those 2 factions having access to this kind of power.



The issue lies in that only the industry heroes can give that much of a ramp up early game, and that bonus continues long term especially if you have multiple industry heroes, new colonies can be spawned and built up with + ind to planet, +10 ind to system, and +20% ind to system in about 6 turns, by that time you've produced a new colony ship somewhere and are ready to rotate your hero again, you can quite comfortably do this every 6-7 turns and live off 0 tax with trade dust/trade science. Its not even particularly viable to build growth, science, or dust buidlings playing this way unless they can be built as extra items after your next +industry building in the same turn. The ability to do this doubles per industry hero so horatio players can easily take adavantage of that, and all of this goes on while the factions without any industry heroes were busy wonder what they were doing wrong. I don't believe that the industry heroes should be weakened to compensate for this, but rather all the other hero classes need to be made viable early game.



A way of balancing this may be; at the beginning of the game, the first 3 heroes available must be of your race, (ie. humans start with human choices, considering they haven't discovered any other races at this time) and are guaranteed a choice of an industry hero.



any thoughts on this please?

This thread is the origin of discussions about certain starting hero specialisations/types.

Other threads about this have been archived:

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13826-fixed-hero-types-at-game-start

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13870-standardize-hero-start

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13910-starting-heroes

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13923-for-heros-at-start

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13946-starting-heroes



Feel free to post here about this topic here and inform yourself about the variations the threads listed above have already discussed, but don't open new suggestion threads for anything alike.

my point is that its stupid to have a craver hero if ur the ue; matter of fact its stupid to have ANY OTHER race, other then ur race; as a hero..... y would i, if i was the horatios, who are all about cloning and stuff, have a pilgrim as governor of my home planet? or the ameobas having a hisso hero for theres? its stupid and doesnt make sense and thats y i want it fixed...regarding 3 choices of heroes in the beginning; you def need an admin there, and i have restarted the game plenty of times to make sure i have one...furthermore, i restart the game more then 5 times, (and sometimes stop playing all together) cause i wanna have at least 1 of my own race governing my home planet(with admin traits)...when u play as the UE its almost impossible...

I don't see how "of your own race"-restrictions fit in your suggestion, but I've renamed the interesting part, anyways.

You should always start out with decent planets and heroes and give a good choice right off the bat, rather than having to depend on RNG from turn 1. Randomize the starting conditions within certain limits, along the lines that supersoaker9 suggests.

sir i Agree with u wholeheartedly (the creator of the post) i hope this makes its debut soon... ide b pretty let down if they didnt catch this before the official release at least....especially on the race specific heroes part

I usually restart around 5-10 times to at least get a feasible starting system and a hero I can use.



It feels weird because in other similar games, it's exciting to start fresh and see what I can discover, but not here... a bad start just feels too great a penalty to continue... perhaps it's because even the largest galaxy feels small in the game.

No need to restart game. For each faction, force the game to spawn 1 admin hero, 1 combat hero, and 1 random.





EDIT: Q: Have you played Pilgrims yet?