I'ts a great idea and the game needs more depth with this feature...

I think agents should not be different from heroes, rather there should be a new experience tree like "corporate" for example, with espionage features. Also I would enjoy seeing a new race with espionage proeficiency.

Stalker0 wrote:
I actually like Civ 5's method because it is clean and focused. It gets to the heart of what you want to do with espoinage and lets you do it without a lot of micromanagement.

Well its good for Civ, i'll agree with you there.



But it seems really tedious for a game that already has heroes.

This sounds really well thought out and also like a lot of fun. I'm a big fan of Agents in the Total War games and yours seem to function kind of similar.



+1

Igncom1 wrote:
Thats a hell of a lot better then the Civ 5 method.



You can only get 4 spy's total...and even then they are really, really abstracted.

I actually like Civ 5's method because it is clean and focused. It gets to the heart of what you want to do with espoinage and lets you do it without a lot of micromanagement.

Obak wrote:
I totally agree, I dont either want any more heroes or micro manegment.

I don't know how espionage works in Civ5, but let me show you a screenshot of how it worked in Mo2

http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad286/VagabondZOD/Sky%20Lords/SkyLords_t240_spying.jpg



In the bottom right box you see the numbers of spies you currently have on domestic duty, they defend against enemy spies.

At the bottom right at the racial portraits you see spies depoyed against enemy emireps (4 against Marupa and 5 against kikitik). Below the deployed spies you see their current action (Espionage, Sabotage, Hide)

There is no more magament then this, you just build spies that are automatically allocated to your domestic espionage pool and then you allocate them from there to your enemies.

Thats a hell of a lot better then the Civ 5 method.



You can only get 4 spy's total...and even then they are really, really abstracted.

Igncom1 wrote:
I personally don't like this idea.



I have trouble managing the Normal Heroes let alone Agents.



And this suggestion is eerily similar to Civ5 spy's.

I totally agree, I dont either want any more heroes or micro manegment.

I don't know how espionage works in Civ5, but let me show you a screenshot of how it worked in Mo2

http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad286/VagabondZOD/Sky%20Lords/SkyLords_t240_spying.jpg



In the bottom right box you see the numbers of spies you currently have on domestic duty, they defend against enemy spies.

At the bottom right at the racial portraits you see spies depoyed against enemy emireps (4 against Marupa and 5 against kikitik). Below the deployed spies you see their current action (Espionage, Sabotage, Hide)

There is no more magament then this, you just build spies that are automatically allocated to your domestic espionage pool and then you allocate them from there to your enemies.

I personally don't like this idea.



I have trouble managing the Normal Heroes let alone Agents.



And this suggestion is eerily similar to Civ5 spy's.

Espionage was a much appreciated part of MoO2, many times I snatched victory from the jaws of defeat when brave spies socessfully destroyed the enemies defence plattforms or flagships, leaving critical systems open for my brave Space Squirrles to invade.

Even more so was the abaility to cripple my oponents while still having diplomatic relations with them (I like to play it cloak and dagger style).

Recruitment of spies was really straight forward, you built them as any other unit/ship and then allocated them between either internal or external operation. Spies placed on domestic duty would automatically act as counter espionage.



I very much like the suggestions above and I would like to add the following:



Divission into internal affairs and forgein.

1.1 Internal affairs

1.11 Counter esponage, capture and liquidation of enemy spies

1.12 Propaganda, raising happiness by media manipulation, secret police etc.

1.13 Desinformation, feeding enemy agents false information regarding military strength, technology etc.



1.2 Forgein affairs

1.21 Terrorism! Targeting civilan, industrial, economic or scientiffic targets. Spreading gene-plagues. Destroying improvements. Killing spies, Attracting pirates and just wreaking seven shades of havoc

1.22 Military espionage, revealing compossition or part of enemy fleets.

Hi all,



This is my first post in these forums and I just wanted to say that it has been a blast to play Endless Space for the last couple of days. Really brings back good memories and feels from old school 4X games… so, congratulations to all in Amplitude for this great project and for the Games2gether community idea, a great step forward in crowdsourcing ideas and feedback!



This said, I’d like to leave my suggestions for designing and implementing Espionage activities in Endless Space.



Espionage in Endless Space would be performed by Agents. Agents can be recruited much like Heroes, on a separate recruitment option called Agent Network. The Agent Network would work like the Academy, where a new Agent would be available every X turns. My initial idea is that the Agent Network would not be available from the start, yet it would be unlocked through a new specific research option in the Diplomacy tree (i.e. “Covert Operations”).



Unlike Heroes, Agents would not be able to be assigned to colonies or fleets, being restricted to two roles:

Active role – an Agent can be assigned to a specific solar system of an opponent race. This solar system needs to be previously scouted by one of your ships. There, the Agent can perform Espionage missions.

Passive role – if recruited but not on a mission, the Agent works as a passive defense against enemy Agents.



By sending an Agent to an active role, the Agent would be unavailable for X turns until it reaches the targeted system. There, depending on the system infrastructure and presence or absence of fleets and Heroes, he could be presented the following options:

Assassinate – The Agent will try to kill a stationed Hero.

Sabotage improvement – The Agent will try to dismantle a specific planetary improvement.

Sabotage fleet – The Agent will try to destroy a stationed ship (ships in the Hangar would have a lower difficulty rate than ships in orbit).

Foment revolt – The Agent will spark unrest among the populace (in practice this would work as an invasion attempt, filling part of the “invasion bar”. It could work either to speed up a planetary invasion or influence colony turning).

Steal technology – The Agent will attempt to return with valuable tech information.

Siphon Dust – The Agent will attempt to divert funds from the infiltrated colony to your Empire.



In order to fulfill each task, the Agent would pit his skill against a difficulty rating. The Agent skill would be determined by his XP and other relevant racial/tech bonuses. Difficulty of each mission would rise with the degree of development of the infiltrated colony, presence of enemy ships, Heroes and Agents.



Your Agents would be able to advance in level by two ways: the first would be passive leveling. By being recruited and assigned to a passive defensive roll, the Agent will gain XP slowly (think of this as ongoing training). A fastest way to gain XP would be the successful completion of espionage tasks. The harder the mission, the more XP the Agent would gain.



New research options should also be available to improve your Agent Network and Agents. For example, techs that reduce the number of turns you have to wait for a new Agent; techs that expand the maximum number of Agents available in your Network; techs that give your Agents bonuses on specific missions; techs that would give your Agents an XP boost when first recruited, etc. These techs could probably be incorporated in the Diplomacy branch, as not to create a whole new branch of research.



Upon a successful mission, you would be given the option to make your Agent return home, or continue the infiltration. Note that a prolonged infiltration would add a penalty to your Agent success rating (the colony’s state of alert would increase). A failed mission would either result in the possibility of your Agent to continue infiltration, to return home (in full health or injured) or to be caught in action and executed.



Ok, hm, I think that’s about it, I hope this idea gives some food for thought! Once again, congrats for a great game in the making!

This is a pretty good idea.



I'd wonder how to balance this with normal diplomacy though, otherwise you leave other options in the dust.

Great idea. I would also add option SURRENDER, mean when You are in war with another fraction You send to them demand that they surrender and You take them all system automatic included in Your empire.

This thread is the origin of discussions about implementing espionage.

Other threads about this have been archived:

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13207-suggestion-poll-add-spies-and-assassin-special-units

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13261-suggestion-enemy-planet-population-numbers-as-spy-intel

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13563-suggestion-intelligence-gathering

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13764-suggestion-more-espionage-options

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13954-espionage-system



Feel free to post here about this topic here and inform yourself about the variations the threads listed above have already discussed, but don't open new suggestion threads for anything alike.

+1 We really need better diplomacy and this is finally a good plan to do so.

Some or all you suggestions have already been suggested and a summary list of improvement is listed here. If you feel certain ideas not rasied or have fresh ideas then please refer to this discussion thread

I'll try to be quick about this.

So after a quick reading of the forums and some practice gaming, I was thinking that maybe spies could also look for info on a given empire like:

Colonized systems & planets

Fleet movements

Tech info (how much and/or which tech the empire has researched)

Empire info (like how much systems, resources, fleets, population, heroes the empire has)



Also, inciting a revolt could, perhaps in a few cases, lead to the planet becoming independent, as, controlled by pirates? Although I'm not sure about how pirates work in ES...

(even though this would be a fine solution for the pirate related posts I've seen in the forums, there wouldn't be a major pirate capital, and pirate fleets wouldn't just spawn freely where they please, but they'd have their own planets which can be conquered/eradicated/etc).

I'm also thinking that spies could be sent on trainings of various cost, lenght and difficulty, thus gaining different amounts of XP.



Not sure if Cravers should be able to use spies (and vice versa, to be spied upon), since they're all-consuming and non-diplomatic and such (although since I recruited a Craver hero with UE, maybe it could be done).



Don't know if anyone knows Imperium Galactica 2 or Haegemonia, but I basically imagined something like that regarding spies, they were crucial in those games, and they could/should be in Endless Space too.



Now, back to work, I've got a galaxy to conquer...

+1 A very well laid out plan for what a few of us have been calling for already, greater diplomatic and espionage options

Great, original ideas. This blends quite nicely with the idea that has previously come up, that of minor heroes. (see signature) and adds much food for thought. I think there should be a 'critical success', 'success', 'failure' and 'disaster' outcome for each 'mission', mitigated by the difficulty of the task, the rewards and the skill of the hero.