Beam weapon graphics - Endless Space

Beam weapon graphics

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BusterBunny

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BusterBunny

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12 years ago

Aug 9, 2012, 2:48:41 PM

Stupid question...

Why do "Beam" weapons look like anything at all??? We are in a vacuum, with NOTHING there that could reflect any light, and thus make the actual "beam" visible. A real beam weapon would be a bright point on the target. The fact that you can see a laser beam during a laser show is because the room is floded with vapor, which will reflect the light...

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Fersoltil

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Fersoltil

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13 years ago

Jul 8, 2012, 12:24:57 AM

This would *so* improve the feeling of space battles. Maybe tone down the power of lasers but increase accuracy to 100%?

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datamestonic

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datamestonic

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 8, 2012, 11:54:26 PM

Solid, instant-hit beams would look far better but also provide a game mechanics dilemma in terms of balancing which leaves a few issues to be solved.

One of the weapon balancing factors is undoubtedly projectile speed, and making them strike instantly would be a big buff to an already possibly over-powered weapon system (since they are faster and better for hitting multiple targets than missiles, yet also provide more range and alpha that is favored in the current lethality of combat).

That said, these balance issues could certainly be overcome by a big damage nerf which may be in order anyway. Accuracy doesn't have to be perfect, an instant beam can still be made to miss of course. Additionally, they could be made to fire in a later combat sub-phase which, past a certain threshold, would actually provide a form of nerf since the ship may be destroyed before even firing. As a result, lasers could be made into low power but reliable/accurate weapon which IMO seems more distinguished and fitting than their current state.

And the solid beam fired would provide a more believable and desirable aesthetic to players, at least from my perspective.

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Draco18s

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Draco18s

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 9, 2012, 12:19:09 AM

shugyosha wrote:
Good idea. As of now it is kinda difficult to tell apart beams and kinetics.

Kinetics are orange, round, and numerous (5+ per weapon module). Beams are bright blue/green/purple, long streaks, and less numerous (one per weapon module).

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Zuljah

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Zuljah

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 9, 2012, 6:44:03 AM

Absolutely. Beams should be beams, not glowing projectiles!

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Talby

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Talby

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 9, 2012, 1:10:49 AM

First off, don't be angry at me for rezzing this, a mod closed a recent thread and pointed to this one!!

If the lasers were made into a DoT (damage over time), and lasted roughly as long as it takes for the kinetic round to reach their target, I think they would be differentiated enough, whilst still not being OP with insane front-loaded DPS. Perhaps a slight nerf to damage would still be in order, as this would be particularly effective against low-hp destroyer swarms. Anyway, it would be really awesome to have true beam weapons, even if you have to "fake" the animation and simply delay the damage until appropriate.

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Draco18s

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Draco18s

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 9, 2012, 5:41:29 AM

Unity can certainly do solid beam type graphics. I was playing around with a laser script earlier today (although it appears to be doing some very strange things and I can't make it display properly).

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WhiteWeasel

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WhiteWeasel

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12 years ago

Aug 9, 2012, 7:06:53 AM

I'm not saying the current designs are bad, but I think there should be a variety of laser designs that get more interesting as you go up the tech tree.

I'll just going to list the common types of science fiction beams I know:

Science fiction 'lasers':

Rod or rain drop shaped beam

Not really a laser but more akin to a plasma bolt.

Examples: What we have now.

Solid beams:

A straight rod or sometimes like a constant thunder bolt.

'True' lasers

Examples: star trek phasor.

Multi-lasers

Several lasers coming together to form one super-laser.

Since lasers go through each other it is unrealistic w/o some sort of refractor.

Examples: Death star laser, void ray.

I'd like to see something like the purple towers from a game called Vector TD. Probably not the way it functions but the lasers' aesthetic. (builds up then discharges).

It's a laser that: After targeting the enemy it drains power. Once the weapon reaches critical mass it feeds back the energy back in to the target in a split second, causing damage.

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mogthew

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mogthew

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 9, 2012, 11:36:04 AM

Rather than trying to change the current beams to be Point2Point, it might be better to rename them to 'Plasma' and introduce real lasers. That way, the balancing for the current weapons remains unchanged, changes to existing code can be minimal, and the new stuff can be created from scratch

Plus we get a new weapon type!!

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Chris42899

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Chris42899

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13 years ago

Jul 6, 2012, 10:06:21 PM

Real laser beams would IMO look much better, than small laser blasts.

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WhatGravitas

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WhatGravitas

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12 years ago

Aug 9, 2012, 8:31:48 PM

BusterBunny wrote:
Why do "Beam" weapons look like anything at all??? We are in a vacuum, with NOTHING there that could reflect any light, and thus make the actual "beam" visible. A real beam weapon would be a bright point on the target. The fact that you can see a laser beam during a laser show is because the room is floded with vapor, which will reflect the light...

Rule of Cool, so to speak. Because it's what you expect in Sci-Fi, because it looks impressive (meaning you feel some reward for building a beam-armed ship) and to give visual feedback to what is happening.

In-universe explanations can also be found, if you really need one: apart from the earliest beams, they're not lasers, they're exotic radiation, plasma lances, space-time disruptors and what not that all give off some visible light as side-effect.

Here's another voice preferring solid, long beams over the projectiles, with kinetics and missiles both being definite projectile weapons (where the graphics clearly work well and fit), it'd be nice to have some variety from just projectiles. Even with solid beams, there can be some variety (colour, shape etc.), but also length. Solid beams with instant travel time, that are short pulses (lasting just half a second or so) would be a fairly unique look and fit with the damage model (damage on impact) in combats.

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Stretchycheese

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Stretchycheese

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 9, 2012, 9:15:53 PM

Has anyone come up with a mod that alters the beam weapon "bolts" to look like continuous beams yet?

As I said earlier, it would look so much better if they chose the beam weapons to look something this:

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Draco18s

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Draco18s

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 4:01:57 AM

Stretchycheese wrote:
Has anyone come up with a mod that alters the beam weapon "bolts" to look like continuous beams yet?

You won't be able to. That stuff is controlled inside Unity. You'd need to swap out whatever object that is currently being used for a Line Renderer and a class file to make the ends be where you want them to be.

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Luckz

Necrophage Amoeba

Luckz

Necrophage Amoeba

12 years ago

Aug 14, 2012, 2:26:51 AM

Another vote for continuous beams.

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Tiriondil

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Tiriondil

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12 years ago

Aug 14, 2012, 9:40:57 AM

Add my vote. Beams should be straight lines.

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Combat_Koala

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Combat_Koala

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 15, 2012, 8:52:41 PM

I like my beams to be beamy

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Sokunokumi

Old Timer

Sokunokumi

Old Timer

12 years ago

Aug 17, 2012, 6:54:49 AM

+ for straight line Beams

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VIPflipstar

Pro VIP

flipstar

VIPflipstar

Pro VIP

12 years ago

Aug 17, 2012, 9:48:00 AM

I wouldn't mind heavier later tier weapons being beams, even just for a few seconds (not constant streams).

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Boygor

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Boygor

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13 years ago

May 4, 2012, 6:09:45 PM

Indeed, variety is the spice of life

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shugyosha

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shugyosha

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13 years ago

May 4, 2012, 11:37:11 AM

Good idea. As of now it is kinda difficult to tell apart beams and kinetics.

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Boygor

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Boygor

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13 years ago

May 4, 2012, 11:46:36 AM

shugyosha wrote:
Good idea. As of now it is kinda difficult to tell apart beams and kinetics.

I think the beams cause more 'splash damage' on the ship (as well as being generally larger) but it does bug me.

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VIPSharidann

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VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 4, 2012, 11:48:13 AM

Different color (and the beams splash on your shields too), but aye, not that easy to differentiate...

Boygor wrote:
I think the beams cause more 'splash damage' on the ship (as well as being generally larger) but it does bug me.

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ScoHook

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ScoHook

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 4, 2012, 12:50:24 PM

I can only agree with that.

A long long time ago Freespace (2) had awesome beam weapons, only remembering the sound of them makes me all warm and fuzzy

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madgiraf

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madgiraf

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 4, 2012, 2:05:31 PM

ScoHook wrote:
I can only agree with that.

A long long time ago Freespace (2) had awesome beam weapons, only remembering the sound of them makes me all warm and fuzzy

Well the current beam weapons are more like pulse energy weapons.

Hopefully we will also have more "ray like" beam weapons too or eventually "energy ball like" weapons in the future.

I am also hoping that weapon diversity will increase with some more weapon types and related armors (like direct fire weapons affecting both shield and armor or missiles affecting both flak and shield, etc.)

Now technically, there is no sound in space (never been there to check though). But hey, this is science fiction and for entertainment purposes so definitely let's have sounds.

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acehawk

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acehawk

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 4, 2012, 4:10:01 PM

I'm just going to mention here that I have a hard time telling any of the projectiles apart. The only reason I know which is which now is because I made a few ships with only one type of weapon. They really should look more distinct.

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Eiensakura

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Eiensakura

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 4, 2012, 4:18:54 PM

Positron/Hadron particle beams too!

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Merku

Lord

Merku

Lord

13 years ago

May 4, 2012, 5:49:09 PM

Adding more variety to beam weapon effects seems like a good idea. I was under the impression, though, that much of what I was seeing in the laser/beam department were actually plasma weapons akin to those found in SotS and SotS 2. I'll have to play more Endless Space to be sure. (And oh, I shall...)

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Boygor

Newcomer

Boygor

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 4, 2012, 11:35:59 AM

I've got to say i'm a little disapointed with the beam weapons...

I expected beams, not projectiles

Are the current beams going to be altered to look like Star Trek/ Babylon 5 beams in the future?

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MattStriker

Newcomer

MattStriker

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 5, 2012, 10:08:28 AM

Every time I see something described as a 'laser' fire a slow-moving projectile a little bit of my inner scientist dies :P.

Seriously, definitely agreeing with the OP here. Take a look at B5 and Freespace 2 for ways to make this look awesome.

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4verse

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4verse

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jun 8, 2012, 9:09:37 PM

100% agreed! beam = ray = straight line!

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kodokai

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kodokai

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jun 8, 2012, 9:54:06 PM

i VOTE BEEEEMZ

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VIPDMT

Enthusiast

VIPDMT

Enthusiast

13 years ago

Jun 8, 2012, 11:44:15 PM

I vote for beams and also those mad death rays from Stargate!

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MODNosferatiel

Informer

"God's in his heaven, all's right with the world." Nerv Motto, Neon Genesis Evangelion

MODNosferatiel

Informer

13 years ago

Jun 9, 2012, 6:18:05 PM

This thread is the origin of all beam weapon graphics discussions.

Other threads about this have been archived:

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13503-aesthetic-suggestion-for-lasers

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13251-suggestion-visuals-beam-weapons

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13315-suggestions-for-improvements-in-visual-effects-for-weapons

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13664-suggestion-poll-laser-aesthetics

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13578-suggestion-weapon-aesthetics

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13635-change-of-laser-visuals

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13739-suggestion-beam-weapons-art-change

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13951-graphical-change-change-beam-weapons-from-pulses-to-lasers

Feel free to post here about this topic here and inform yourself about the variations the threads listed above have already discussed, but don't open new suggestion threads for anything alike.

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Stretchycheese

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Stretchycheese

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jun 18, 2012, 6:09:28 PM

From this thread.

Aureus wrote:
Alas, it appears this is completely off the table for the devs, if the new suggestion thread is to be believed.

That's really unfortunate.

I'll keep an eye out for a mod then.

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MODNosferatiel

Informer

"God's in his heaven, all's right with the world." Nerv Motto, Neon Genesis Evangelion

MODNosferatiel

Informer

13 years ago

Jun 18, 2012, 6:12:38 PM

I'll just quote from the devlist:

Steph'nie wrote:
Here's how we will answer to your ideas:

DONE in game already, or will soon be implemented

**** Master must have

*** Master nice to have

** Post release must have

* Post release nice to have

X Never - either not possible or simply not in our vision

U Undecided

Lazer Aestheics - How lazer should look [P] *

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