Wow, I never expected my idea to be noticed by so many people. Thanks guys!

I do like the idea of limiting the suicide action to melee phase only. It makes sance too, since you need some time to actually reach the enemy fleet. Also, this could prevent most of the abuse so it's both lore- and game-friendly.

With that in mind, I really doubt that abusing those battle cards could by abused in many other ways. As the quote goes:

WhatGravitas wrote:
Not so sure. If the damage scales with ship size and engines (or ship speed), then you need to do at least some research to pull it off consistently, not to mention that you'd need to make it into the melee phase.



If you want to dedicate a fleet to suicide runs, you should be able to do it, it's not much different from having missile spam glass cannons. If the damage isn't an instant kill, but just a significant chunk of damage (scaled to the build cost of the ship), it would be an interesting alternate route of dealing with ships.

What Codename_Veers said also makes sence, and I think that the feeling of desperation is exactly what we need for those battle cards ^_^

realistically this should be a card that can only be used in the melee phase... although balance wise, this will make it useless as ships never reach the melee phase (even with the patch's new hp buff)

Now that this's been added to the list, let's hope the devs like it ^^

n18991c wrote:
Yes I remember that... the ship ended up so badly crippled that it probably ruined Enterprise's space ship insurance company... haha lol

Yeah, tell me about it

This has been added to summary list for Dev Teams consideration under Game Play > Mods > Special Battle cards

PANCZASU wrote:
Oh man, this brings back some awesome memories

Anyone remember Star Treck Nemesis? ^_^ I'd love to do something similar in Endless Space

Also, the poll is doing great guys, we can make it!

Yes I remember that... the ship ended up so badly crippled that it probably ruined Enterprise's space ship insurance company... haha lol

Tredecim wrote:
*dramatic music*

Oh man, this brings back some awesome memories

Anyone remember Star Treck Nemesis? ^_^ I'd love to do something similar in Endless Space

Also, the poll is doing great guys, we can make it!

n18991c wrote:
I had voiced concern about abuse of such cards in an earlier post, but if the idea is to only have it be selectable in melee phase, then by all means... ramming speed! lol

*dramatic music*

I had voiced concern about abuse of such cards in an earlier post, but if the idea is to only have it be selectable in melee phase, then by all means... ramming speed! lol

Thank you for that! <3

Now, let's hope everyone who contributed to this idea will check on this thread again so that they can vote on the poll. We need a lot of positive votes for this suggestion to make it into the "to do" list

I like this idea =)! It needs some tweaking, to be not overpowered, but it is going to add some fun to the fights !!

See my fleets and know that you are doomed! See my fleet and despair!!! Yeah, that's what I'm talking about! Now we just need the Devs to notice so they can implement the idea - if they don't do this already...lol

I'm sure many of us remember how in Star Trek movies the captains often issue an order to ram the enemy ship while self-destructing their own. In the movies this move is pulled out when all hope is lost and the only way to make a difference in combat is to sacrifice a ship.

I believe Endless Space could benefit greatly from having this kind of battle card. One could use it as a last resort in big, late-game battles that they expect to loose, hoping of a draw (which is always better then inevitable defeat). On the other hand, this card could be very useful to turn a large fleet of smaller ships into kamikaze armada, clearing the way for your main forces.

If such card could make it into the game, it should come in two variations - the first one (easier to acquire, maybe even available from the start of the game) could be called "Collision course", while the second one would be simply called "Self-destruction". Here's how I think those cards should work:

• Both of them should take two turns to have effect - just like retreat card
• "Collision Course" should calculate the damage based on ships maximum HP (doubled friendly ship HP minus enemy ship HP, all divided by 1.5 -> the damage you dealt), so that it's very effective on big ships, while not so much on the smaller ones. The same damage is dealt to your ship, but it's possible (if unlikely) that you survive this action.
• Because you have to boost your engines power to collide with an enemy, all your defensive and offensive modules have decreased effectiveness by 50%, making you an easy target but not totally defenseless
• "Self-destruction" works similar to suicide, except that the damage is increased depending from the weight of power, invasion and weapon modules installed on your ship, making this card much more deadly. However, until your ships hit the enemy they cannot fire at all, and your defence modules have their effectiveness decreased by 70%. Regardless of the damage you dealt, your ships are destroyed.
  
  

What do you think about my idea? I'm not a balance genius, but I think the overall concept is cool. Please, leave your suggestions



EDIT: I think it's important to mention, that during the discussion we all agreed it would be best for both of those cards to only take effect during the "melee" phase, to pervent possible abuse

Ok, that's just speculation, but I think when two parties have the same amount of money, and the one partie builds suicide-fleets and the other usuall military fleets, the second one will win, just because the other has no more ships after attacking to invade a system. And the normal military-player will shoot down enough ships to counter suicide-fleets to survive at least enough attackts. Since suicide-ships can only akt in melee, the superior full armed fleet will have enough time to clear the path, so just a few ships will survive for the melee-phase, thus making suicide a real act of desperation, and not a strategic-choice.

n18991c wrote:
I'm not sure, could be massively abused with cheap ships being built and hurled at the other player rather than bothering with upgrades, research etc..

Not so sure. If the damage scales with ship size and engines (or ship speed), then you need to do at least some research to pull it off consistently, not to mention that you'd need to make it into the melee phase.



If you want to dedicate a fleet to suicide runs, you should be able to do it, it's not much different from having missile spam glass cannons. If the damage isn't an instant kill, but just a significant chunk of damage (scaled to the build cost of the ship), it would be an interesting alternate route of dealing with ships.

I'm not sure, could be massively abused with cheap ships being built and hurled at the other player rather than bothering with upgrades, research etc..

Like it, but am concerned about abuse as well. As a Hero-Trait or implemented in the Expansionpack with Formations and only in Melee I would like it. If you cant retreat this could be the non-plus-ultra! ower: Husa!

Stalker0 wrote:
I could see this as a melee phase only card. If you make it that far and you don't think you can win, you can go for the suicide.

Good Idea, the restriction to melee phase might prevent abuse! (But at first, the cards would have to get implented )

I could see this as a melee phase only card. If you make it that far and you don't think you can win, you can go for the suicide.

I like this idea (I was actually going to suggest something similar). However, Nasarog is correct: this system could only (effectively) be implemented if formations and movement options were added to battles (through an expansion or mods).



But anyway, I think (if this system is ever developed) that more powerful engines should create more powerful explosions (since the plan is to overload them). As well, maybe the amount of weight on the kamikaze ship should also effect the explosion radius (more weight = more matter = bigger explosion).

Maybe something on the card like "any ship with less than 15% of its Hit Points attempts to ram an enemy ship." This would give ramming a relatively low chance of success, as I think it should be give the tremendous damage potential.

Actually, you're both right. But that's why there are ships called Picket ships. In order to properly utilize these ideas, one would have to have formations, as well as gameplay that accounts for said formations. My guess is that this level of depth would be developed in an expansion.

The main problem I can see with this is that it sounds very easy to exploit, turning out swarms of cheap, empty vessels that are then used as rams. Suicide dives are fine as a method of last resort, but there's nothing to stop human players from using them in a very deliberate, abusive manner. And I'm also not sure that the AI we have at present can be trusted to decide when to suicide its own ships. How would it make that determination? I know I'd be sort of put out if everything I fought a race, they just randomly went for a ram instead of fighting.



Where I think this COULD be implemented is as a special card for a Hero. That would limit the use it could be put to and make it, well, a heroic act by definition.