If you think about it, the Harmony should be at endless war with the rest of the Universe. They are trying to destroy all dust, i.e., the miracle drug that cures everything. What would you do if an alien species arrived on your planet and started disintegrating money?

Not being able to trade dust with other people is just one of the many, many things Harmony lose out on by not generating dust, along with heroes, economic victory, and buying out constructions. The solution isn't to create new harmony only resources, but to actually compensate them for that loss with either stronger unique techs, or by improving their other FIDS. something like a flat +25% to all 4 FIDS (which would also increase disharmony unless you planned carefully) would probably make them balanced.

Antera wrote:
That's an interesting interpretation. There is this one Harmony hero that got added and his description shows that maybe some Harmony individual can adapt to dust. But that description also says they are generally disoriented by it. They probably get massive headache and dizziness when they are near dust.

Headache and dizziness is probably not as serious a condition as death, so I still discredit the idea of a Dust-based weapon being their ultimate weakness.

Fenrakk101 wrote:
Remember that the Harmony you play as are survivors, and the survivors were corrupted by Dust. They may hate it, but they're probably immune to the effects - they lose food and Industry because they're stubborn. "I REFUSE to work in this environment!!"

That's an interesting interpretation. There is this one Harmony hero that got added and his description shows that maybe some Harmony individual can adapt to dust. But that description also says they are generally disoriented by it. They probably get massive headache and dizziness when they are near dust.

Stargem wrote:
Dust really does a number on the Harmony, reducing Food and Production by an amount equal to the percentage of Dust being produced. I am guessing a really concentrated load of Dust would wipe away the Harmony, effectively being a bioweapon.

Remember that the Harmony you play as are survivors, and the survivors were corrupted by Dust. They may hate it, but they're probably immune to the effects - they lose food and Industry because they're stubborn. "I REFUSE to work in this environment!!"

Dust really does a number on the Harmony, reducing Food and Production by an amount equal to the percentage of Dust being produced. I am guessing a really concentrated load of Dust would wipe away the Harmony, effectively being a bioweapon.

Stargem wrote:
I consider those to be the individual cells that makes up the body of a Harmony. The planets are closer to being bones, organs, and so forth in this context.

Would be hard to colonize such a planet after conquering it.

I consider those to be the individual cells that makes up the body of a Harmony. The planets are closer to being bones, organs, and so forth in this context.

Stargem wrote:
I figure that the Harmony are essentially "galactic" sized individuals, which means that a planet is just a tiny part of their body. So if they met another Harmony, they will either end up being drinking buddies or play a game of galactic billiards. Anyhow, I figure that the Harmony Crystals would also be useful to the Harmony, as they are delicate but temporarily expands a Harmony's view of the universe...improving their morale.

Pretty sure Harmony individuals are about man-sized, as all other races are

I figure that the Harmony are essentially "galactic" sized individuals, which means that a planet is just a tiny part of their body. So if they met another Harmony, they will either end up being drinking buddies or play a game of galactic billiards. Anyhow, I figure that the Harmony Crystals would also be useful to the Harmony, as they are delicate but temporarily expands a Harmony's view of the universe...improving their morale.

thuvian wrote:
If you think about it, the Harmony should be at endless war with the rest of the Universe. They are trying to destroy all dust, i.e., the miracle drug that cures everything. What would you do if an alien species arrived on your planet and started disintegrating money?

This argument breaks down when another Harmony faction gets involved. Cravers fighting Cravers, sure. But Harmony being at endless war with Harmony, over Dust? Seems unlikely.

One of the things that trouble me about the Harmony is their lack of options in respect to diplomacy. Being unable to exchange Dust for treaties, technologies, goodwill, and so forth makes them diplomatically inflexible. So they need a currency that doesn't work like Dust, but offers something to other races. I suggest the implementation of "Harmony Crystals", which improves the happiness of a system for 10 turns when expended by an empire. These crystals are derived from the Dust production of planets owned by the Harmony, but are useless for construction.



The value of these crystals is +1 happiness (for 10 turns) per crystal that is expended on a system. Perhaps these can even affect races that lack "emotion", allowing a way for Harmony players to trade with emotionless empires or other Harmony players.

Antera wrote:
Who said anything about them dirtying their hands with dust. Hahahaha

Would you let a potential enemy come and mine your planets? This is the 4th millenium and there is only war!

Who said anything about them dirtying their hands with dust. Hahahaha

Antera wrote:
You know what be cool? What if you can give other faction the right to the dust in your system, that you (Harmony) hate so much anyways. Maybe you can have like a new kind of Harmony unique treaty like an "export dust" treaty that you can use to bargain with in place of dust. It can even be made to lower your disharmony malus making Harmony diplomacy more interesting.

That would make it pretty OP. You'd basically get double the bonus for less work (the AI will give you something for that Dust per turn, and on top of that you lose the malus).



It also wouldn't make much sense. The Harmony isn't going to collect the Dust themselves to ship it to another empire. If it were that easy, wouldn't they collect it themselves (even without a deal) and just... place it all in an orbital dust silo or something?



The Harmony shouldn't have to rely on Diplomacy, since they can have the strongest military force of any empire (due to the lack of fleet upkeep).

You know what be cool? What if you can give other faction the right to the dust in your system, that you (Harmony) hate so much anyways. Maybe you can have like a new kind of Harmony unique treaty like an "export dust" treaty that you can use to bargain with in place of dust. It can even be made to lower your disharmony malus making Harmony diplomacy more interesting.

Im currently playing a custom diplomacy/trade route focused faction and trading dust is how Ive managed to keep my lead in Endless difficulty. The trick is to trade it when the AI is bankrupt which seems to happen frequently. One turn you will check and they will have 4k dust + 1k per turn then the next turn they will be at 20 dust and -30 per turn (presumabley from buying a ton of ships but I havent confirmed this) and during this turn they will make amazing deals for very low amounts of dust IE their best tech for 1k dust.

Dust is near worthless for diplomacy with AI. It's useful with people, but tech trading and pacts are more useful.



Seriously. If you're trading Dust you're doing it wrong.

It may make sense, but it also cripples them diplomatically. That is why I think that Harmony affinity empires should be able to convert Dust into Harmony Crystals, via a purification process. The Harmony need tools for diplomacy, because they have a very weak start and midgame when compared to other races. Gameplay is more important than lore.

They don't want to deal with other races corrupted by Dust, so it does kind of make some sense.