Overall a pretty awesome idea! Sorry I don't have more I can contribute to the discussion, in the middle of uni exams at the moment

That's basically how I'd see it. There'd be a pool to choose from, but not all races would have access to all of them, only the ones that fit. With the potential for race-specific ones. There could even be a race (or more than one?) with a single choice, which could factor into the whole racial bonuses/penalties aspect.

Having various policies to mix and match is definitely the way to go, I feel.

i agree that having the choice of how to govern your People would be nice.... edit: as long as it's somewhat in line with the lore.

Stargem wrote:
Having various policies to mix and match is definitely the way to go, I feel.

Like others suggested before, Civ 4 and Alpha Centaury had a quite nice System, as far as i remember. Fall from Heaven II, a very popular dark fantasy mod for Civ4 (500K+ downloads), brought in a lot more deepth with religions and different races... even allowing special policies for certain races/religions/alignments. Added a lot of flavour to the game as whole.



To connect this: There is a thread that talks about how you handle conquered populations here, why not make it so that one of the policies is about that?

Some form of government system would be nice. Something to add customization to your playthrough and give you another strategic option.

After doing a bit more of research, i still would like to see a civics system like the ones used in Alpha Centauri or Civ IV. With restrictions based on your race and maybe a bit simplified... but having some choices would allow me (and i gues others) to get more connected to my race and playstyle. the bonuses/drawbacks shouldn't be too big, to not influence the balance of the game. Or wait until after release to add such a system and do a rebalance. I also like to see a civic that states how you handle conquered populations of star systems, like suggested here. Would also be nice to see some influence to your Diplomacy, giving bonuses or penalities depending on it.



This is also a friendly bumb for a thread that i consider important

Good idea, but some of the names and effects need tweeking.



Also, each civilization needs to be limited to certain options for government, i.e. I doubt that the cravers would have a democracy.

KNC wrote:


Corperations:

The empire organizes itself through the use of self-sustaining companies which effectively take over most decisions in their local teritory. The United Empire has this system, as well as the previous one.

• Small Research Bonus
• Strong Production Bonus
  
  

Oligarchy/Plutocracy:

The entire power is inherited by a select family/party.

• Medium Approval Malus
• Small Research Malus
• Medium Production Bonus
• Faster Command Chains - Faster Ship Speed
  
  

Are you honestly implying that Corporatocracy and Oligarchy are different things? Maybe you need to take political science before coming up with this stuff.

Idea great but requires a lot of tweaking to make all of them viable some have too many bonuses and no malus.



Too many quality over quantity make 4-5 movement types not more make them distinct from each other.



In MOO2 you had 4 types of government you were able to choose from when creating a custom race I do not think more is necessary.



We know already what kind of bonuses the developers have in mind, at least for now, you can check them here:



/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13124-design-creating-your-own-faction



Governments should enhance the game but not unbalance it the more things there are the harder to balance them.



All in all a good idea that need tweaking.

gamingalife wrote:
Idea great but requires a lot of tweaking to make all of them viable some have too many bonuses and no malus.



Too many quality over quantity make 4-5 movement types not more make them distinct from each other.



In MOO2 you had 4 types of government you were able to choose from when creating a custom race I do not think more is necessary.



We know already what kind of bonuses the developers have in mind, at least for now, you can check them here:



/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13124-design-creating-your-own-faction



Governments should enhance the game but not unbalance it the more things there are the harder to balance them.



All in all a good idea that need tweaking.

Well they should all act in a similar manner therefor making the difference between the government a choice between different strategy.



Where as one end of the spectrum would be something like a 'hive-mind', the other side would inevitably be an anarchy type of control, one side eliminating the individuals righta altogether and the other making them amount to the law.



Which is good for a Production-happiness type of government type system, but where does that leave dust? personally i think it should sit directly in the middle of this spectrum making the choice of either extreme undesirable to any strategy that require large amounts of it.



However i do believe that the idea of science being affected by politics to be rather flawed, after all whether a empire is just or downright evil, controlling or fee as a kite, scientific discovery's will be made. Moral or not....

I would support this idea IF it is integrated into the lore and that a player couldn't change the government type unless it jives with the lore. So give a player a range of government types that his nation can switch to based on his race, so the Cravers couldn't end up with a Democracy.

I feel like it should take a more CIV V approach, where you adopt certain policies over time. Some policies, freedom and autocracy as one example, can't be activated at the same time. Also some policies should be restricted/ activated at the start of the game in some species.

Governments seem to fit the fluff better, but social policies seem to fit the style of the game far better to me.



Something like these in the game could be good, but only if they don't become the focus of play all of a sudden. (I need to be/have anarchy to use this tech, but that means giving up these techs I have for Democracy... sigh)

Love the idea. Should be like in Civ4 or Alpha Centauri, which had excellent govenment options. As democratic cravers are really a strange idea, some options should be blocked for some factions.

I don't like the idea becuase it would decrease the differentiation among races or make them even less immersive. Cravers adopting democracy or monarchy is not something i wish implemented in the game. I would like instead a preset of form of government for races with unlockable branches which are also race specific.

I don't know that it would make sense for each race to have all forms of government available to it, but I would like to see something like 3-5 variants of government types (that fit within the species lore) that you could select. Along with which ever form/variant/focus of government you choose you would receive various bonus and negative affects.

I find it's a awesome idea. Perhaps combine with the idea of a specific tree for each race?

They need either social policies or government types, or both! Would add more to diplomacy.

jam3 wrote:
They need either social policies or government types, or both! Would add more to diplomacy.

The league of Galactic oppressors isn't going to build its self!

I think this is a great idea, especially if certain races were barred from certain government types that would just be unfeasible given their biological/base emotional tendencies.

Igncom1 wrote:
No coperations? because from what i read the United Empire uses coperations for their expansion efforts before impertial control can be spread, whitch is why diffrent UE empires can compeate.



Also no monarchy? although i suspect Oligarchy covers this.

Well I thought about including corporations but the UE is a monarchy using corporations after all, so I'd say the UE is a monarchy rather than a corporation. But maybe I'll include that system later as well.

As for the monarchy, it is there, you just probably didn't see it because it is hidden in between 2 other systems: "Dictatorial Regime/Monarchy/Totalitarian:"

Would be awesome but I'm not sure how it would fit into the lore of the game. Horatio come to mind, and the idea of democratic Craver's seems absurd. Of course, you could limit the options for different races. Also, I'm not sure what kind of bonus you have in mind but a strong bonus should be no more than 10 - 15% otherwise the balance of the game would be thrown out of whack. And democracies generally suffer from war weariness (when starting a war anyway).

I would say that the forced theocracy shouldn't be an individual option, rather it is what happens when you invade a new planet while the rest of your empire is an accepted Theocracy. Over time the people will come to accept it, but this would mean that the forced T should be identical to the accepted T except have greater malus'. Perhaps you could increase the bonuses of T to allow for this.



The new strategy would then be that having a Theocracy gives you a huge bonus, however it prevents you from rushing as too many newly invaded systems being added to the empire could dangerously lower public approval.

Mostly would avoid a one word "Government" And instead have an overarching social policies section with several subsections that could be active at once. As per like Civ 4 and Alpha Centauri.



Not that I feel the game really needs it. It can be a fun factor and can be useful, but it doesn't really feel like it'd add anything more than some stat boostin'

Would be fun, and a great addition to the game. If possible, I would love to see this in game.

@samboy29: Yeah the type of bonus of course would have to be balanced, just choose small/medium/strong to have something comparable yet not defined already. As for your idea, I like it. When I make an update I'll probably include it. As for the "democratic Cravers"... I thought it to be like an additional trait to increase the depth to each playing style, and as a trait each kind of race would already have one system established.



@Maclardal: Good idea, I thought about something similar but that is more specific and I suppose it could be done like that.



@MaterialDefender: Not sure about that. I already thought about multiple systems and while it generally is a good idea I feel it could add an unwanted level of complexity to the game, as well as being hard to properly program. In case the devs like this suggestion I guess they'll decide about whether it is worth putting that much effort into it.





@Everyone: Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming.

nice



here was that other source of info: /#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/13003-summary-of-suggestions-so-far-discussion

mokaiba wrote:
nice



here was that other source of info: /#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/13003-summary-of-suggestions-so-far-discussion

Yup, I knew about most systems myself already but I wouldn't have come up with the idea of a stratocracy, so the credit of inspiration goes to you

MaterialDefender wrote:
Mostly would avoid a one word "Government" And instead have an overarching social policies section with several subsections that could be active at once. As per like Civ 4 and Alpha Centauri.



Not that I feel the game really needs it. It can be a fun factor and can be useful, but it doesn't really feel like it'd add anything more than some stat boostin'

totally agreed.

No coperations? because from what i read the United Empire uses coperations for their expansion efforts before impertial control can be spread, whitch is why diffrent UE empires can compeate.



Also no monarchy? although i suspect Oligarchy covers this.

Some posts and personal thoughts gave me the idea so I thoroughly searched the forums for already existent suggestions. I've found a few posts and a thread which had some rough ideas or suggestions for this but no suggestion thread dedicated specifically for this (the one thread partially involving this topic being here: https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13353-composite-suggestion-indepth-political-system-internal-and-global!). Since that neither makes the actual suggestion for a government system which I'm talking about clear, nor brings any discussion about those with it, I'll collect some ideas on how exactly to implement this if the devs agree.



Roughly explained the government system is how a race deals with leadership issues and how the general command structures look like, also different command structures allow for different bonuses/maluses.



Possible ways and suggestions to implement this into the game:

One governemt: Each empire has one type of governent, which can't be changed during the game.

Multiple systems: Each empire has either one or several types of government, which can't be changed during the game. How much of the bonuses/maluses apply depends on the amount of systems shared throughout the empire. A maximum number should be 3 or 5.

Dynamic systems: Each empire starts with one or a few select systems and can change and expand them throughout the game.





I'll make a list of possible systems I can currently come up with. I'll also add a rough idea of possible bonuses or disadvantages.



Democracy:

Leaders are elected by the population in regular intervals.

• Medium Approval Bonus
• Small Research Bonus
• Small Production Bonus
  
  

Voluntary Anarchy:

No tight command structure is in place, individuals are not restricted by laws or any type of government. Due to the natural behaviour of the people they normally wouldn't benefit from laws or a government anyway.

• Strong Approval Bonus
• Medium Research Bonus
• Small Production Bonus
• Slower Command Chains - Slower Ship Speed
  
  

Disarray Anarchy:

No thight command structure is in place, individuals are not restricted by laws or any type of government. The empire is in a constant state of disarray as each individual does as it pleases, more or less unregarding of others opinion. The Cravers would probably have this system.

• Small Approval Bonus
• Strong Production Bonus
• Faster Command Chains - Faster Ship Speed
  
  

Technocracy:

The most sophisticated and intelligent individuals are choosen to be the leaders. The Sophon for example would likely have this government type:

• Small Approval Bonus
• Strong Research Bonus
• Small Production Bonus
  
  

Dictatorial Regime/Monarchy/Totalitarian:

The entire power is inherited by a single individual. The United Empire has this system, as well as the next one.

• Strong Approval Malus
• Small Research Malus
• Strong Production Bonus
• Faster Command Chains - Faster Ship Speed
  
  

Corperations:

The empire organizes itself through the use of self-sustaining companies which effectively take over most decisions in their local teritory. The United Empire has this system, as well as the previous one.

• Small Research Bonus
• Strong Production Bonus
  
  

Oligarchy/Plutocracy:

The entire power is inherited by a select family/party.

• Medium Approval Malus
• Small Research Malus
• Medium Production Bonus
• Faster Command Chains - Faster Ship Speed
  
  

Theocracy:

The leaders are individuals who are considered "divine" or "guided by god". The population commonly believes in the religion, however adapting to new systems very hard.

• Strong Approval Bonus
• Medium Research Malus
• Strong Production Bonus
• Faster Command Chains - Faster Ship Speed
  
  

Additional tweaking to the ownership of systems. Systems were the ownership is below 80% suffer from increased maluses.

• Strong Approval Malus
• Strong Research Malus
  
  

Stratocracy:

The military individuals with the highest ranks are the leaders.

• Small Research Bonus
• Strong Production Bonus
• Faster Command Chains - Faster Ship Speed
  
  

Hive:

A hive consists out of one or a few higher sentient beings which are the leaders and the lower sentient population which work as drones.

• Approval Irrelevance
• Small Research Malus
• Strong Production Bonus
• Faster Command Chains - Faster Ship Speed
  
  

Collective Mind:

The entire empire is more or less one single individual with several terminals (bodys).

• Approval Irrelevance
• Medium Research Malus
• Small Production Bonus
• Very Fast Command Chains - Much Faster Ship Speed
  
  

The 8 major races would each have one or a few systems tight in place at the start of the game, much like the current traits.



As for the other existing major factions I'm unsure which system the Hissho and the Horatio would have. I'll still take a guess.

Horatio - Oligarchy?

Hissho - Stratocracy



Notes (to do):

- Democracy needs to be a little stronger

- Some other types of bonuses/maluses would be good

- The system should have an significant, but not too big impact on the general gameply as weel as the feeling and the connection to a faction.

- Balance some more

- None of the systems really works for the Horatio, maybe add an additional system for clones or especially similar beings

- The random events need to be working according to the empires system(s).



Any new ideas, other systems or feedback would be very appreciated.

MaterialDefender wrote:
Mostly would avoid a one word "Government" And instead have an overarching social policies section with several subsections that could be active at once. As per like Civ 4 and Alpha Centauri.



Not that I feel the game really needs it. It can be a fun factor and can be useful, but it doesn't really feel like it'd add anything more than some stat boostin'

Agreed! tho i don't personally mind stat boosting!

KNC wrote:
Well I thought about including corporations but the UE is a monarchy using corporations after all, so I'd say the UE is a monarchy rather than a corporation. But maybe I'll include that system later as well.

As for the monarchy, it is there, you just probably didn't see it because it is hidden in between 2 other systems: "Dictatorial Regime/Monarchy/Totalitarian:"

There it is!



But alot of the deep space operations of the UE is funded and run by the corperations, someting in the story about the problems of running a monarchy in such a quickly growing empire. But offically yes, the Emperor!

Igncom1 wrote:
There it is!



But alot of the deep space operations of the UE is funded and run by the corperations, someting in the story about the problems of running a monarchy in such a quickly growing empire. But offically yes, the Emperor!

Yeah, I suppose that could be more easily established in the game if it isn't a one word government. Speaking of which:

MaterialDefender wrote:
but it doesn't really feel like it'd add anything more than some stat boostin'

I just edited the wikia entry for random events and noticed quite a lot of them assume a certain type of government or population, so in case a system like this is established it might also affect which positive/negative random events can occur in your empire. More than that in case the system isn't included in the game, I imagine it be incredibly annoying and unfitting if your empire has a Anarchy/Hive/Whatever and you get an event telling you your (nonexistent) democracy experiences problems with extremists or anything along these lines. Given the different factions already existent in the game, this would even possibly happen during an absolutely normal game without mods, so I hope the devs do something concerning these possible problems.

It should also affect diplomacy and maybe there are some more things that could be affected by different governments. Any more ideas?

i kinda of like this idea. I would modify it to suggest something along the lines of the alpha centauri setup, ie: no so much a bunch of single government selections, more you can modify different aspects to come up with a system you like. I think they had 4-5 different aspects, this could be reworked ofcourse, but something like this would allow more flexibility and not just a pick one of 5 selection.

Since we will already be able to build races from a variety of stats and races already have a governmental flavor I don't see this as expanding too much on the game.

ArrowLance wrote:
Since we will already be able to build races from a variety of stats and races already have a governmental flavor I don't see this as expanding too much on the game.

At least I myself don't notice anything of a governmental flavor which is part of the problem, I think I'm not the only one thinking that. As the game is now and will be in the future without a system like this the Cravers might as well be democrats in secrecy and no one ever notices.



Update:

Ok so wanting to have more than a one word government seems to be a pretty common opinion, I've edited the post with a few ideas for that.

Added corporations and a fee side notes, changed theocracy.



I'm going to let the idea and the suggestion develop a little further and I will likely start a poll some days later get a broad opinion what is desired most.

I would love for this to happen.



As for certain racial limitations (Cravers not being democratic, as an example that's already been mentioned), simply make it so not everybody has access to the same government types. That adds an extra layer of strategy to racial selection. Some races could even have access to "special" types that nobody else can have (like, say, "Hivemind" for the Cravers, or whatever).

MaterialDefender wrote:
Mostly would avoid a one word "Government" And instead have an overarching social policies section with several subsections that could be active at once. As per like Civ 4 and Alpha Centauri.



Not that I feel the game really needs it. It can be a fun factor and can be useful, but it doesn't really feel like it'd add anything more than some stat boostin'

I'd prefer multiple policy choices (SMAC did it best, I find), but failing that, I'd still rather have "single governments" than none at all.



As for it not adding more than stat boosting (not that I have anything against stat boosting in itself), I disagree: I can't help but feel that it would add more "personalization" and "individuality" to each game. You could play the same race twice but pick a different government, and your experience will be a different one (even if not by much, depending on how much of an effect governments/social policies would have). And that, I would say, is always nice.

other bonuses/maluses could include:

Population growth speed +/-, Command points (bigger/smaller fleets), Increased/decerased random event modifyer, Special equipment, Special ships, Special buildings, increased/decreased diplomatic rating.



and i think that does it for me at this point.

Trekner wrote:
other bonuses/maluses could include:

Population growth speed +/-, Command points (bigger/smaller fleets), Increased/decerased random event modifyer, Special equipment, Special ships, Special buildings, increased/decreased diplomatic rating.



and i think that does it for me at this point.

Thought about most of these but I don't think they'd work good as government traits, except for Population growth speed, I should have thought of that one earlier. Thanks for throwing this in.