ericbtool wrote:
"....Here is the first design document for the expansion pack. Don't hesitate to have a look and give us your comments...."



I believe I did that.



have a good one.

Disscussing: "the difference being on earth planes can move so much faster than a ship whereas in space these types of limitations are limited to nil. Given the technologies we're pretending to use in the game there is no reason a smaller craft should move faster than a larger one. "

Has nothing to do with the game-play of fighters and bombers in ES.

1alexey wrote:
I would say I`m sceptical about the overall concept of fighter/bomber in space.



Space is empty. Whatever the missle you fire from bomber you can just fire straight from the carrier, and the result would be the same, due to no friction.

Bomber is a bigger target, easier to intercept at long range.

The missles they fire are as succeptable to flack as missles fired from the ship.



Why bother with bombers at all?



Also, considering the existance of mele phase, where ships assumingly close in to the point where they can reliably hit eachother with projectiles, the point of bombers is, again doubtfull.



"Bombers" need some good deal of difference from anti-ship missle that is fired from rocket launcher.



Fighters again, need some sort of explaination. What is preventing ship to fire anti-bomber missles, that would be way faster and more manuverable than bomber, due to much shorter oprational range and smaller payload required?

From a strictly scientific standpoint, there is no reason for FTL capable ships to engage in STL combat. They could simply unload ammunition (read: nukes) from a long distance and warp away. by the time they could be detected, they'd already be gone. Thank you relativity. Space warfare of the non-scifi variant will be mind boggling business that largely depends on what technology actually end up working. To illustrate its insane nature: FTL by definition violate causality meaning that an object undergoing any form of FTL will end up in a different worldline from one which it left. Does not make a playable game at all.



Bombers could be far better armored than anti-ship missile, making it difficult to intercept, therefore fighters are needed. simple right ?

I just have one queston how much is this pack going to cost to get is it going to be free like the add-ons or cost somthing like the upgrade to emperor

fall0fdark wrote:
I just have one queston how much is this pack going to cost to get is it going to be free like the add-ons or cost somthing like the upgrade to emperor

It will be priced as an expansion. So I guess it will be ~50-75% price of the original game.

I like carriers in space combat. But we have missle vs flak opposition already, which sounds alot like fighter\bomber.

While I think fighter\bomber combat can really be spectacular for all players, I want to pint that as a new, "casual" player, all that "delayed damage", "intercepting missles" make my head hurts already. Fighter\bombers can make it worse. There are good visual representation of combat phases in game, but that "rounds" and "cycles" I can not easily uderstand.

What I would like more is electronic warfare in combat. Theres currently no "stealth" modules for ships, which are very basics of EW. The kinetics could really be devastating, if you can get this firepower close and personal out of nowhere.

Well the problem is that flak is called FLAK when most flak modules in the game are more like anti-missile plasma shields.

Whoa, wait a second. I thought flak can destroy missles which target ANY ship, and shields protect only ship they are installed on?

No, flak only works on missiles targeted at the ship it's installed on. It just works REALLY well.

Tridus wrote:
No, flak only works on missiles targeted at the ship it's installed on. It just works REALLY well.

Flak works on missiles that are on a collision course with the ship. If missiles are on a collision course with a ship, usually it means that that is the target, but sometimes another ship can be partially in the way.

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
Flak works on missiles that are on a collision course with the ship. If missiles are on a collision course with a ship, usually it means that that is the target, but sometimes another ship can be partially in the way.

That would indicate a physics system, and that doesn't exist for the combat system.

Igncom1 wrote:
That would indicate a physics system, and that doesn't exist for the combat system.

Although having a flak-missile-scattering amplitude dependent on the distance between the two fleets, the formation and distance of your own ships would be a fun thing to calculate. That would basically be the geometric cross section, so a plane, with partial covering by other ships, that has a size R depending on the angular spread of the missiles and the distance of the two fleets and would finally be influenced by the hit radius of the missiles and the flak particles to be completed by the flak and missile flow through the plane.

Igncom1 wrote:
That would indicate a physics system, and that doesn't exist for the combat system.

True, physics does not exist in the combat system. However, it still could be code that the devs purposely put in to simulate one. Either way, I've seen it happen before. (Although it is rare for a ship to be in front of another ship thus blocking a missile)

Nosferatiel wrote:
Although having a flak-missile-scattering amplitude dependent on the distance between the two fleets, the formation and distance of your own ships would be a fun thing to calculate. That would basically be the geometric cross section, so a plane, with partial covering by other ships, that has a size R depending on the angular spread of the missiles and the distance of the two fleets and would finally be influenced by the hit radius of the missiles and the flak particles to be completed by the flak and missile flow through the plane.

You just made me respect you that much more, sir

Nosferatiel wrote:
Although having a flak-missile-scattering amplitude dependent on the distance between the two fleets, the formation and distance of your own ships would be a fun thing to calculate. That would basically be the geometric cross section, so a plane, with partial covering by other ships, that has a size R depending on the angular spread of the missiles and the distance of the two fleets and would finally be influenced by the hit radius of the missiles and the flak particles to be completed by the flak and missile flow through the plane.

Sounds great for the A.I. that can crunch numbers like crazy. Now a regular player, not so much. Especially if they do not have a degree in math/physics.

Nasarog wrote:
Sounds great for the A.I. that can crunch numbers like crazy. Now a regular player, not so much. Especially if they do not have a degree in math/physics.

Since the end result would be a single number: Missile hit probability, all the maths in the background can be as sophisticated as it needs to be.

Nosferatiel wrote:
Since the end result would be a single number: Missile hit probability, all the maths in the background can be as sophisticated as it needs to be.

Sure, but there are plenty of people, myself included that like to know how that final number was arrived at.

I am not sure if i have missed it, but will we be able to see those little fighters to be rendered and approaching each other. The combat rendering is beautiful but yet there is very little to see and i hope from the new system that there is more.

Yes truth, battles should be more epic , and dynamic , mayby fighters /bombers bring more life ...

Badmadmark wrote:
Yes truth, battles should be more epic , and dynamic , mayby fighters /bombers bring more life ...

4 more for fleets would be nice...

Faction Traits for hissho fighters and bombers "kamikaze run " thay not fight during "spoting round " 500% att more, 100% def less after battle module is destroyed if we use this "card"

Badmadmark wrote:
Faction Traits for hissho fighters and bombers "kamikaze run " thay not fight during "spoting round " 500% att more, 100% def less after battle module is destroyed if we use this "card"

'Divine Wind' Battle Card. I like the sound of that...