[EXP] Fighters & Bombers

VIPAnwyl

Chameleon

27 800g2g pts

11 years ago

Apr 19, 2013, 6:58:22 PM

I think their should be a new ship class called a carrier that has a decrease in tonnage for fighters and bombers.

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

11 years ago

Apr 20, 2013, 4:47:39 AM

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
I think their should be a new ship class called a carrier that has a decrease in tonnage for fighters and bombers.

Or have the Dreadnoughts and Transport ships fill this role.

(+1 for the Transports who only see combat when they are getting killed

)

Pondera

Newcomer

Pondera

Newcomer

6 000g2g pts

11 years ago

Apr 21, 2013, 1:35:04 PM

There's just one problem with fighters in Endless Space: Flak.

Ships equipped with Flak are able to knock missiles right out of space who doing their damndest to move and dodge in such a way that they hit their target, perhaps firing countermeasures at the same time as well, depending on the level of technology we're dealing with. Imperium Aeturna even went so far as to add MIRVs to play, making missiles split into other missiles at launch. Furthermore, missiles can execute maneuvers that would apply so much force to a human pilot that he/she would black out. And my last point here is that AAA in WW2 worked by basically launching a big bomb surrounded by a shell of shrapnel. This was INCREDIBLY effective at dealing with aircraft as it absolutely shredded their fuselages, and the only limit to the range of AoE was, more or less, air friction. How much more effective would this anti-fighter technology be in space where there's nothing to slow down the tiny bits of shrapnel?

The technology can further be improved by changing the payload. What would flak do if the shrapnel was replaced by flechettes (mini-needles, basically), or, god forbid, hostile dust leaping from fighter to fighter and converting them to more hostile dust? Bottom line: Fighters. Not the best idea ever.

Edit: It probably would have helped if I read the previous posts to see if this was mentioned before. Yes, flak in Endless space can amount to plasma shields, but would YOU want to fly your tiny little fighter through that?

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

11 years ago

Apr 21, 2013, 3:00:57 PM

Turrets now deal with fighters, Flak is for missiles.

Pondera

Newcomer

Pondera

Newcomer

6 000g2g pts

11 years ago

Apr 21, 2013, 4:17:27 PM

Igncom1 wrote:
Turrets now deal with fighters, Flak is for missiles.

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Flak_gun

Is it too much to ask for both?

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

11 years ago

Apr 21, 2013, 4:52:47 PM

Well it depends on the balance the Dev's want, but ideally Fighters of your own will be the best counter, making it a shield and weapon.

VIPAnwyl

Chameleon

VIPAnwyl

Chameleon

27 800g2g pts

11 years ago

Apr 21, 2013, 8:46:00 PM

The fighters probably have small shields that can stop the shrapnel from hitting their ship but are overwhelmed by enemy fire.

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

11 years ago

Apr 21, 2013, 11:38:20 PM

Well I would see it as that because Flak isn't really flak by mid game and is actually a Shield, its more like the fighters fly through gaps in the shield that orients to incoming missile waves.

And then get blitzed by turrets that probably are what they say on the tin.

Pondera

Newcomer

Pondera

Newcomer

6 000g2g pts

11 years ago

Apr 21, 2013, 11:47:15 PM

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
The fighters probably have small shields that can stop the shrapnel from hitting their ship but are overwhelmed by enemy fire.

Well, THAT's some creative lampshading

Sovereign

Fanatic

True to Amplitude since the Beta of Endless Space One.

Sovereign

Fanatic

17 400g2g pts

11 years ago

Apr 22, 2013, 12:15:48 AM

But still what is with kinetics?

....in battles in which the enemy fleets uses a large amount of kinetics which are flying widely arround cause of the low accuracy what happen then to the fighters and bombers?

i mean in battle with massive kinetics it is like a storm of projectiles between the two fleets...and iam curious how the Devs want to manage this?

it would be a shame if the kinetic projectiles would just fly through the fighters/bombers like they wouldnt be there.

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

11 years ago

Apr 22, 2013, 12:53:02 AM

They fly around them like missiles?

Sovereign

Fanatic

True to Amplitude since the Beta of Endless Space One.

Sovereign

Fanatic

17 400g2g pts

11 years ago

Apr 22, 2013, 1:23:58 AM

Igncom1 wrote:
They fly around them like missiles?

well good luck with that.

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

11 years ago

Apr 22, 2013, 1:36:21 AM

Well I hope you are not planing on attempting to fire those huge shells with the intent of killing fighters.

The you just avoid the cross fire.

Stealth_Hawk

Voyager

Stealth_Hawk

Voyager

23 700g2g pts

11 years ago

Apr 22, 2013, 1:59:55 AM

It can be done (kind of)

btw I hop they make fighter battles this epic

Sovereign

Fanatic

True to Amplitude since the Beta of Endless Space One.

Sovereign

Fanatic

17 400g2g pts

11 years ago

Apr 22, 2013, 2:01:24 AM

to avoid them is not that easy

so i hope fighters and bombers are not flying straight to the enemy fleet.

@Stealh_Hawk

not the best example cause in ES

battles are always broadside battles with huge crossfire areas.

Stealth_Hawk

Voyager

Stealth_Hawk

Voyager

23 700g2g pts

11 years ago

Apr 22, 2013, 2:18:00 AM

Sovereign wrote:

@Stealh_Hawk

not the best example cause in ES

battles are always broadside battles with huge crossfire areas.

Meh, I'm not worried. At least I wouldn't be, if they could utilize Boid particle systems. Then again, the combat system doesn't have a physics engine, so I'm not familiar with that kind of coding. Unless they used avoidance modifiers...

MODNosferatiel

Informer

"God's in his heaven, all's right with the world." Nerv Motto, Neon Genesis Evangelion

MODNosferatiel

Informer

47 300g2g pts

11 years ago

Apr 22, 2013, 9:07:51 AM

Sovereign wrote:
to avoid them is not that easy

so i hope fighters and bombers are not flying straight to the enemy fleet.

Well, if I were a strikecraft admiral, I would never ever, under no circumstances, approach ships in the direct line between carrier and target. That would just be an invitation to hit two flies with one go.

Anyone of you played Freelancer, Starlancer or Freespace? If you got into a fight of capital ships, you stay clear of the broadfire area in between and try to find other approach vectors.

VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

I know nothing. To learn more, come visit us @ eXplorminate.net

VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

36 700g2g pts

11 years ago

Apr 22, 2013, 5:59:19 PM

Nosferatiel wrote:
Well, if I were a strikecraft admiral, I would never ever, under no circumstances, approach ships in the direct line between carrier and target. That would just be an invitation to hit two flies with one go.

Anyone of you played Freelancer, Starlancer or Freespace? If you got into a fight of capital ships, you stay clear of the broadfire area in between and try to find other approach vectors.

Sure, but are we going to get that kind of control? a true 3D vector approach? does that also mean that ship defense and offense will now be directional like SoTS or is it global like ST? That would make this tactical game very strategic.

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

11 years ago

Apr 22, 2013, 6:53:37 PM

I would think they would do it automatically, as combat is really more of a cinematic.

They would just be pathed to avoid it like missiles, for the cool and logical look.

VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

I know nothing. To learn more, come visit us @ eXplorminate.net

VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

36 700g2g pts

11 years ago

Apr 22, 2013, 7:26:52 PM

Igncom1 wrote:
I would think they would do it automatically, as combat is really more of a cinematic.

They would just be pathed to avoid it like missiles, for the cool and logical look.

Exactly, but that would mean that they would need to have a dozen or more different cinematics to cover the various possibilities of combat. As much as I love what they have now, they need more.