[EXP] Balancing

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Sovereign

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True to Amplitude since the Beta of Endless Space One.

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Sovereign

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17 400g2g pts

12 years ago

Jun 2, 2013, 10:04:20 PM

Xervitus wrote:

Adding racial planet affinities is the best way as I can see it, that way not everyone is trying to terraform everything to the same type. Maybe sophons are native to ice worlds and thus get stats similar to what humans would get on terran worlds, etc

i disagree this would limit the Affinities to certain terraforming paths and so to certain strategies which is smallering the diversity and possibiltys.

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Kareal

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Kareal

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35 400g2g pts

12 years ago

May 16, 2013, 6:27:24 PM

Meedoc wrote:
Well, in my opinion it has a positive effect, making terraformation more interesting and breaking the "terraform everything into T1".

At the end game I don't think this is a bad thing, however it should be tempered by T1 should be the best overall FIDS with a lack of specialization with ALL upgrades included. I believe this is still the case but if it isn't in any case I feel like that should be adjusted.

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RobM

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RobM

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30 400g2g pts

12 years ago

May 17, 2013, 8:20:42 AM

Not mentioned in the design document but implemented in the SaveTheSowers mod - Are we also getting the change to the Colony Base (+5 food/+5 industry per planet) along with these planetary FIDS changes?

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Sovereign

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Sovereign

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17 400g2g pts

12 years ago

May 17, 2013, 10:58:09 AM

RobM wrote:
Not mentioned in the design document but implemented in the SaveTheSowers mod - Are we also getting the change to the Colony Base (+5 food/+5 industry per planet) along with these planetary FIDS changes?

plus the higher costs of the seed modul ?

and the buff to trade?

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fourteenfour

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fourteenfour

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17 900g2g pts

12 years ago

May 17, 2013, 5:29:25 PM

How are maximums for planetary populations going to be handled? I find it laughable that some of the most inhospitable planets by humanoid norms could present any increase of ideal planets for life unless the population numbers were just so greatly capped as to make it barely worth while. As in, you could claim that dust is an bonanza of a hydrogen world but regardless of size there is no justification for supporting more population than even the smallest ideal world. So while I am all for seeing it having benefits, after all you could just suck off the gas, I would be more inclined to have planets we either terraform or harvest, the later being through system tech meaning no population ever is landed.

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Igncom1

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Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

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Igncom1

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11 400g2g pts

12 years ago

May 17, 2013, 5:58:02 PM

Shivetya wrote:
How are maximums for planetary populations going to be handled? I find it laughable that some of the most inhospitable planets by humanoid norms could present any increase of ideal planets for life unless the population numbers were just so greatly capped as to make it barely worth while. As in, you could claim that dust is an bonanza of a hydrogen world but regardless of size there is no justification for supporting more population than even the smallest ideal world. So while I am all for seeing it having benefits, after all you could just suck off the gas, I would be more inclined to have planets we either terraform or harvest, the later being through system tech meaning no population ever is landed.

Never heard of domed city's? Or space stations?

Just because you can't go outside don't mean you can't build habitats there.

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Weismann

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Weismann

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100g2g pts

12 years ago

May 18, 2013, 9:03:36 PM

Awesome concept one tested well see how well it runs might need tweaks but definitely an awesome improvment

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Shyrka

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Shyrka

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100g2g pts

12 years ago

May 23, 2013, 4:22:03 PM

I'm definitely interested in seeing what these changes to the Pilgrims achieve. I've had quite a lot of success with custom Pilgrim builds in the past, using pre-nerf Legendary Heroes to bootstrap my expansion, but these days they really struggle.

The industry-food change for the Sowers (one of my other favourites) should help a lot to reduce the cripplingly slow start they have, but I'd almost rather they were brought up to 65 points. Giving them only 60 points - especially at the moment - is just cruel.

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VIPInFlamesWeTrust

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VIPInFlamesWeTrust

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15 100g2g pts

12 years ago

May 23, 2013, 11:44:56 PM

I can tell you now guys that the change to fids does make the game a lot more interesting. It makes almost every system worth colonising which is really strange to start with. Also you lot need to remember that this was posted 2 and a half months ago so some of the stuff in save the sowers came around after this was posted.

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Sovereign

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Sovereign

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17 400g2g pts

12 years ago

May 28, 2013, 12:21:25 AM

iam curios when we get the build ; )

Will there be any patch for the Vanilla Game

before the Expansion pack release?

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Xervitus

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Xervitus

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19 000g2g pts

12 years ago

Jun 2, 2013, 3:57:32 PM

I have to be honest, the planet changes are terrible. I won't even go into the "realistically" point of view, even though I feel you guys are stretching the realism vs game play balance quite hard with some of those numbers.

I would scrap this entire planet system if I were you. This system as it is is completely nonsensical, and with terraforming, there should be a gradual massive change and IMPROVEMENT. If you don't want "terraform everything into T1", there are better ways to do it.

Adding racial planet affinities is the best way as I can see it, that way not everyone is trying to terraform everything to the same type. Maybe sophons are native to ice worlds and thus get stats similar to what humans would get on terran worlds, etc

Another way to make systems more varied and promote diversity could be terraforming costs exponentially harder the further you get away from its base type, for example each terraforming "step" costs twice as much as the one before it. If you want to change a lava world to a ocean paradise it's possible, just not really feasible in most cases.

My biggest problem is that by making planets so specialized and discouraging improvement based terraforming you are removing a large dynamic of the game, as well as adding possible balance issues that are hard to overcome...I WANT to funnel massive resources and create ultra paradise systems, why would I be penalized by improving them? Sorry, but the rationale behind "this planet is better for research because its barren compared to terran" makes no sense gameplay wise OR realistically.

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Igncom1

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Igncom1

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11 400g2g pts

12 years ago

Jun 2, 2013, 6:12:33 PM

It's easier to test WMD's in barren wastelands then in lush paradises, making science easier to do.

And besides, ocean worlds should still be the best at science, but only with the max population.

While barren worlds have a large amount of science per population, they still have terrible population numbers, making the T! super worlds much better when at max population.

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Ca_Putt

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Ca_Putt

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32 800g2g pts

12 years ago

Jun 2, 2013, 9:40:09 PM

It does not actually remove the whole terraforming thing, on the contrary it makes it less tedious. Think about it, right now it's all to terran in some cases Jungle and Ocean are worthwhile but generally it's terran hands down. With more rewarding higher tier planets it's actually worth thinking about terraforming to something else than Terran. It also gets rid of the agenda to terraform ALL planets(which btw looks horribly boring) something that racial traits would not deal with. So sophons terraform everything to Iceworlds, great. that does not add diveristy that only adds nuisance(as you have to terraform all their planets "back" to Terran). With more worthwhile higher tier Planets also a lot of improvements actually are worth it. otherwise anything that does not affect Terran is simply out of date.

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JIntegrity

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JIntegrity

Old Survivor

21 300g2g pts

12 years ago

May 16, 2013, 5:24:34 PM

I'm not sure how much this will change. The happiness modifiers were always the best reason to go to T1 so that I could further increase my tax rate (UE). I don't know if even having extremely lucrative planets can make up for that.

I would love to hear more about these Golden Ages though. Pilgrims used to be my favorite faction, and I'd love to have a reason to play them again.

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StriderV

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StriderV

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100g2g pts

12 years ago

Jun 3, 2013, 4:06:39 PM

I agree with the general idea, but I think they took it too far. T1 should still be the "best", but it's not anymore. A lot of those FIDS are because of food, once your population is maxed, food does nothing (until you get that food > industry improvement).

Maybe excess food SHOULD give you something, but until it does, I think this is a huge nerf to T1.

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Ca_Putt

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Ca_Putt

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32 800g2g pts

12 years ago

Jun 3, 2013, 4:29:03 PM

Tier 1 still are pretty great, not as omnipotent as they were before but they have several advantages:

more population

no Approval malus

no need to research colonisation

You pretty much need a tier 1 planet to populate a system of tier 3+ Planets. You don't need 5 Terrans now but when you're planning on getting your people settled it's imperative to have at least one per system.

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Taure

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Taure

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100g2g pts

12 years ago

Jun 3, 2013, 5:17:57 PM

Am I missing something because from what I’ve seen the Sowers would almost always want to terraform to lava (the first terraforming tech) then methane when it is possible. Anyone else see the problem.

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StriderV

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StriderV

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100g2g pts

12 years ago

Jun 3, 2013, 5:59:28 PM

I have calculated the total FIDS on the planets based on the numbers given here. This may show some of my concerns.

For these numbers, I have included all of the population improvements. So, Improved Thermodynamics, Non-Baryonic Shielding, Personal Fields, and Sustained Supercities. But, no faction traits or anomalies.

This also includes using whatever exploitation is most appropriate for that planet type.

With the current values, here are the FIDS at the max population for the different types:

Tier I - 144

Tier II - 120

Tier III - 84

Tier IV - 66

Asteroids - 105

Gas Giant - 112

New Values:

Tier I - 162

Tier II - 136

Tier III - 119

Tier IV - 114

Asteroids - 126

Gas Giant - 203

I am suggesting a more moderate approach...

T1 - Same

T2 - Same

T3 - Same

T4 - Reduce from 12 to 11.

Asteroids - Raise from 5 to 6.

Gas Giant - Reduce from 20 to 15.

This would make the FIDS totals be this:

Tier I - 162

Tier II - 136

Tier III - 119

Tier IV - 108

Asteroids - 147

Gas Giant - 168

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Ca_Putt

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Ca_Putt

Old

32 800g2g pts

12 years ago

Jun 3, 2013, 6:46:45 PM

Well I agree that Gas Giants look pretty powerfull and that nerfing them may be a good idea. buuuut I don't see the need to nerf Tier 4 or to boost Asteroids. In addtion I would remove the 1s from the Gas giants so they only produce one resource.

PS: Anyone remember how this new Colonial basecamp works? what was the FIDS yield and was it flat or per pop.

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Sovereign

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Sovereign

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17 400g2g pts

12 years ago

Jun 3, 2013, 6:49:17 PM

Taure wrote:
Am I missing something because from what I’ve seen the Sowers would almost always want to terraform to lava (the first terraforming tech) then methane when it is possible. Anyone else see the problem.

I am okay with that they want to settle on the worst planets to colonize and terraform then...well atm they stay better to didnt terraform them (till late game or so) but who

what the Devs are planning for the new race specific technologys maybe it is something lore true (but still powerfull i hope)

Edit:this thread isent up to date (*Save* the Sowers Mod was posted later) sowers will get their NERF to 30% industrie conversion!

@ StriderV

I love the changes to Gas Giants as the Dev promoted them.

with the huge approval malus u cant affort to have many gas giants in one system (especially on higher diffultys) also who does atm terrform a planet into a gas giant...imo they need that buff in its full strength.

Well i definitly agree on the other side that asteroids would have needed a much bigger buff,

they are mostly going again to be regarded as *useless*

and that special asteroid Science Building which we got in the last free addon does not change this it comes far to late in the techtree and its far to expensive in terms of Industrie

->useless at all.

@ Ca_Putt

Colonial base now gives +5 FI bonus / colonized planet

its Flat.

But many changes from the mod are not yet in this EXP Balancing formular.

(good thing too many changes at ones are always a risk)

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