What if they make some sort of capital ship for each faction thats like at the end of a tech tree. It can be like bigger( more like this huge thing) than all the other models and have a special ability of its own? where as you can only have one of it at all times?

like that black star cruiser thing in star wars empire at war or for example the big capital ships used in sins of a solar empire: rebellion?? And/or that some of those ability's like the fleet shield are only available for your capital ship or some of the bigger ships.



and pls make more ship models. the only thing that ever bothered me so much in ES was that you only had so few ship models/designs the ones we had w'ere epic but limited

I can't say I have ever been a fan of designated 'capital ships' with special ability's.



How about city sized ships? With enough space to make it's own special ability's.

Igncom1 wrote:
I can't say I have ever been a fan of designated 'capital ships' with special ability's.



How about city sized ships? With enough space to make it's own special ability's.

Doesn't need the ability's, i would love to see one special type of ship design you can have only once

That's kind of a arbitrary limit.



Why? If a player can afford 2 or 3, why not let them have more? The upkeeps the limit, so why not let them build as many as they would want?

Apart from this Abiliy rpg stuff that pretty much is the point of the dreadnought. Stylisticly I don't think ES needs an even bigger ship, that would only make the D the new ship of the line which imho is supposed to be the battleship, and Imho the Hissho and Sower ships already spell "the largest of this civilisation pretty much. Not that the other designs don't say this but these particulr two just don't work as ships of the line.

What is the ship hull specicity of the Sheredyn and the Harmony? Also where can we check those specialities in-game?

DacrioS.PSombra wrote:
What is the ship hull specicity of the Sheredyn and the Harmony? Also where can we check those specialities in-game?

Mouseover on the hull in the techtree or it should also work in the ship design menu, when you play them.

You can see Hull Specificity by hovering a hull either in the tech tree, or when designing your ship.

Please explain... WHY this ship in the game? Is it heavy and expensive colonisation ship or what?? Its have a big malus to defense modules, no bonuses to attack modules and only bonus to civilian (colonisation) module! Why ? I really don't understand it... Its 2nd researched ship, should be one of your main ship pretty long time and what we have? We have new model of colonisation ship

Meedoc answered this over at an other thread.



It's actually a mistake, It's supposed to be -25% for Support modules, which includes armour so that's quite alright :>

Ca_Putt wrote:
Meedoc answered this over at an other thread.



It's actually a mistake, It's supposed to be -25% for Support modules, which includes armour so that's quite alright :>

Ahh, well, I hope he said that this will be fixed in the near patch?

Correct, here the thread:



/#/endless-space/forum/27-general/thread/10248-wierd-ship-class-changes

Well... 1.1.4 already and still no fix for that stupid ship GIGA with bonus to colonisation module?? At least tell please when it will be fixed.

Well I have some beef with that the new ship class specifications. I'll talk only United Empire and Sheredyn since I know them before.



Before Harmony it was: (from memory)

Transport: -40% Civilian Modual

Corvette: -25% weight of engine, sensor, repair modual (Made into more of a logistical and recon/path finder role role)

Destroyer: -20% weight on weapons (made them the general purpose combat ship as destroyers should be, They are meant to be a jack of trades)

Cruiser: -20% or was it 25% weight on armor, invasion and power moduals (made them hard little cookies to crack, the ship of choice for a siege fleet and good core fleet power-uppers, but since they toke 2cp they still couldn't outgun 2 destroyers without being turned into glass cannons.)

Battleship -25% weight on defensive moduals (This was nice since the game was often kind enough to place these ships into the front were they could soak up a HUGE amount of incoming fire potentially sparing some of your more fragile hulls some concentrated enemy fire.

Dreadnought Well they didn't get squat in before harmony. I always believe that the should get a two SPECIAL NON STACK-ABLE bonus that would be flavored to the faction, one bonus would affect a system either positively or negatively and the other would affect it's fleet positively, never affect the enemy fleet negatively. But the bonuses of dreads in harmony are kinda questionable and not all that remarkable in the 2 cases here.





So what does it look like now?



First United Empire: "drum roll" Just read the bonuses and then skip to my rant and disbelief at the bottom.

Transport: -40% Civilian Modual

Corvette: -30% ind cost on beam weapons

Destroyer: -30% ind cost on Missiles

Cruiser: -15% cost on Weapons

Battleship -20% on bomb targeting population and infrastructure

Dreadnought -30% ind cost on ship



The rant part!

Ok I will spare you all I will start with the GOOD first the bonuses first the UE very well, that's it! Now the BAD!!!! IT'S EXTREMELY MONOTONE AND BORING!!!! It very unimaginative and REDUNDANT! The UE already has an a bonus to production by it's racial trait that is already very powerful if you know how to use it. Some people got to experience the joy of seeing 2 1000ish MP fleets land on their HW by turn 15 and a 3rd by turn 17 and a forth by turn 22ndish and start besieging them. Now you can't siege early like that because you need to research and invasion modual first sad. Basically giving the faction industry cost reductions when it can already out produce anyone else is kinda redundant and could potentially be oped in some extent thou I do not think this will be case because in most instances the bonuses are to restrictive. Corvettes and Destroyers become lock into single weapon platforms unless you decide ♥♥♥♥ the bonus. Battleship with a 20% bonus to cost of bomb is also useless because honestly how many bombs are you gonna place on a single ship? You gonna make glass bombing ships and send them all over the place like crazy and swarm the galaxy with bombing terror? You can and should be outproducing other factions now your gonna swamp them with booming? Screw combat fleets, bombing fleets is all you need if you can spam then in large enough numbers until the enemy places a combat fleet of his own on each of his systems. The cruiser's bonus is actually kinda nice seems well balanced, it's not restrictive just help give you and additional edge maybe if your stuck with system that aren't all that great with this and the trait affinity you can maybe claw your way out. Also the ship it's self requires a strategy resource so the enemy could tactically counter you and stem the tied by going for your resource points. In all it would be a good bonus if the other bonuses weren't all identical to this one! Now for the titan 30% industry cost reduction, is that for the Titan only or all the moduals you put on it? Because if it's for all the moduals I think I might be able to build one of these guys every 2 turn, maybe even one turn and if I get the absolute PERFECT system with the PERFECT hero and PERFECT everything maybe more then 1 dread per turn!!! The UE is going to be a torrential river of dreadnoughts??



The constructive and ideas! part!

Well to have a better idea of what we could replace all those hideous industry bonuses I had a look at some of the traits and special tech the UE has

Traits: Businessman/Entrepreneur more dust, Strong Allows more ship HP, Fearless warrior stronger system defense, dust impaired meh, Hull architects +10 ship XP interesting.

Tech: more idus to dust convert, trade bureau interesting, more strategy resources, best armor in the game i think, invasion modual, more dmg base on economic victory



Okay we have some interesting things here.

Corvette: +X% XP earned per battle. Before these things had a bonus to engine which made them ideal for deep strikes into enemy space. Nope fully by giving them an xp gain bonus these small and weaker ships will see more action as the surviving members will gain the advantages of the level system faster making them more appealing options when you want to disrupt the enemy at a low cost and be as effective as possible.

Destroyer: Destroyers rime with more guns and them even more gun and then SOME GUNS AGAIN! Quick history: Destroyers were birthed as escorts to big capital ships to protect them again torpedo boats, so they placed small caliber (by navy standards) high velocity gun on highly rotating turrets to track the fast enemy ships. then they wanted something cheap that could sink enemy capitals far away from home shores, so they put torpedoes on them, then they needed to kill submarines so here came the death charges and other anti-sub weapons, then came planes so flak and machines guns here we come, then missiles so here..... well you get it, the navy ever had a problem with something it would fix the problem by adding more guns to it's destroyers. So the old bonus of -20% weight on weapons was spot on with historical accuracy and since the UE is human possible fitted with history there too. How ever in the name and change an originality what about this: +1.5% to weapon damage per CP in fleet. Max fleet size possible is 24 if I am correct so the max bonus would be 36% weapon dmg increase, which si the same as maxed out deadly weapons trait and also fits with the lethal targeting tech of the faction and it scales with how the game progresses.

Cruiser: Cruisers like I said before this bonus would be nice. The old bonuses were nice too but this one is good to so long as it's ORIGINAL!

Battleship how about a 1-2% reduction in the % weight cost of armor so the armor would go down to 3-4% when placed o this ship, would fit with the feel of the previous bonus, fit with strong alloys trait plus the UE battleship already looks like a flying slab off steel in space so it would also fit graphically!!!

Dreadnought Hehe the fun Part: The system bonus for this one should be +X% industry production to system when in system. Fits well with the UE theme and your previous theme of production bonuses only now the enemy can come and kill your production booster if they want too! For the fleet bonus it's harder, I am thinking a +X% to siege power of the fleet, or a +X% to defense for the fleet. Fits again int he style of strong alloys but also with the video narrative when you start a SP game as UE were their ships are commented on being strong!





Nos for Sheredyn the new affinity I rant directly this time around to save time,

Corvette: -20% weapons weight! WHAT!! What you doing here, corvettes are fast lightly armed recon ships not mainline combat!! Ludicrous! Sacrilege!

Destroyer: -20% weapons industry cost! WTH! WTF! MFOP! Okay quick logic, since destroyers and corvettes are identical in every shape or form except for the bonus and the graphic this means that in a 1 on 1 fight the corvette will always win because it has more gun then the destroyer or more defense because it can just fit more stuff. So researching destroyers and building them instead will reduce your combat effectiveness. Shouldn't that be the other way around? I did notice that teh destroyers do have 2 special modual slots were the corvet has none maybe your forced into making them into small carriers? Destroyers turned into carriers? But then the weapons industry cost bonus is completely useless, after you first the 2 fighter bays the repair and defense is there even room left for weapons anymore?

Cruiser: -30% weight of bombs vs population. WTF! what!? You mean now it's bonus is only 1/4th of what it formerly was. You had to nerf-bat 3/4th of it old bonus away for real? Also again spam coming since Sheredyn can just GUSH dust like mad! more on that later!

Battleship -30% weight of bombs vs buildings! WAIT WHAT?! For real? Is this a bad joke? Do I even need to voice my opinion here? I sure hope you can fill int eh the following black space by your self!

There done moving on!

Dreadnought -50% weight of power moduals, actually sound like a good idea so long as the moduals do not stack with other fleet modual but can stack with ship moduals.



The constructive part! Let's have a look at what Sheredyn really are:

Traits: More dust generation meh, strong alloys, disdain for luxury, Integrity -10 approval for broken deals interesting!

Tech: Super dust generation!!!! HOLY SHIT!!, -1 CP on dread, ship cost reduction on system, dust to system defense, basically they are very dusty people indeed!

Intro talks about: Integrity, loyalty, perseverance, code

Corvette: PERSEVERANCE!!! +50% weapon dmg increase from HP% lost. So basically the more hurt this ship gets the harder it will hit back, going down fighting style kind of mentality. So some quick match if a ship has 60% health remaining, meaning it has lost 40% of it'S health it will deal 20% more dmg next time ti fires if it lives to do so. The bonus can be reduced if 50% is to powerful, but keep in mind the bonus is just for that one ship, and the more the bonus grows means the closer to destruction the ship is. Integrity, loyalty, perseverance are supposed to be traits of this factions story, and if you look into old naval records you'll see extraordinary tales from small ships more then big ships most likely because since the crews were smaller they were more tightly nit together. The rest of the bonuses follow in the same style of thought.

Destroyer: +2% weapon dmg or maybe defense or both for each CP lost during the battle. since max fleet is 24 and the their need to remains 1 ship that's a maximum of 46% increase, in started fleet that have only 5 cp the max the last ship will get 8%. Even thou each ship fight harder and harder as it'S friends get blown up the overall combat strange is getting weaker and weaker. Again the bonus only applies to the ship. You have 4 US destroyers in WWII to thank for this idea as they toke on a fleet of 14 or 17 Japaneses Cruisers,Battle-cruisers and Battleships including the Yamato as they allowed the used carriers to escape. if that ain't integrity, loyalty, perseverance I don't know what is!

Cruiser: -15% Weight of troop moduals, +1% combat strength per enemy and friendly CP destroyed in the system on the current turn. Cap maxed out at 50%. Integrity, loyalty, perseverance

Battleship 50% chance to save friendly ship from destruction if HP above 80%. During a turn if as friendly ship is going to be destroyed by the incoming salvo this ship will move in and body block the salvo if it has 80% or more of it's health remaining. Integrity, loyalty, perseverance. You want LOYALTY their is no greater test of loyalty then biting the bullet for someone else. The think I am wondering is should it receive the 100% supposed dmg or should the dmg it receive be reduced by a certain amount?

Dreadnought -50% weight of power modual I dunno what else I could do. Adding an other Integrity, loyalty, perseverance theme might be to powerful. Maybe a self destruct feature if it is the last ship to go down causing X amount of damage tot he enemy fleet remaining, but would need conditions like must be the only dread present in fleet, minimum fleet CP at start of fight needed to be at least 15-16? Unsure. Ideas welcome!

Now for system it says this should do something about dust, but the Sheredyn are already making so much dust so I don't want to generate more dust. They have enough. I have 2 ideas, Either something almost identical to Enhance dust defense tech 10% dust converted to defense to make systems more resilient when you have a dread there or a 50% penalty reduction on negative affects in the system. like planet that give -10 approval would give -5 and improvement negative effects would also be reduced.





Anyway that is my rant and suggestions on these silly and crazy ship bonuses we have. I know some might be impossible to code because the engine might not allow it but I dunno the dev will know better and they need to tell us who is the one that thought up of these unimaginative and often useless bonuses.





I would also add that currently all of the industry cost reduction do not work.

Heh.. I'll tell you a secret!!! UE industry bonus/specialisation for ships doesn't work Its easy to check... Create corvette (who have IND cost bonus for beams) and destroyer (who have bonus IND cost bonus for missile). Put different combination of missiles and beam for both ships and you'll see the they will have equal cost, no matter put beams on corvette or destroyer (same for missiles). So, just forget about ship bonuses and specialisations for UE



P.S.



Ah...Miss your remark at the bottom of post I hope devs will do something with ships and bonuses, coz atm situation is terrible.

Has anyone put forth the idea of marginal decrease in price per unit added. Itd make larger ships more economical across the board while still preserving class roles through module discounting.



Eg



1 Laser @ 7 tons each 10 industry:

5 Laser @ 6 tons each 9 industry:

10 laser @ 5 tons each 8 industry:



THATS JUST AN EXAMPLE ACTUAL VALUES WOULD VARY

No that would just encourage even more big ship building. Working on a post about it.

Considering the % tonnage increase for mods other then the defence and weapon ones.



Larger ships should be your war ships.

EadTaes wrote:
No that would just encourage even more big ship building. Working on a post about it.

As an avid Horatio player, there is no reason to build big ships now except as troop transport, and even then they arent even the best in game for that role.



Maybe there is as another race but the biggest just arent cost efficient across the board.

mrt1212 wrote:
As an avid Horatio player, there is no reason to build big ships now except as troop transport, and even then they arent even the best in game for that role.



Maybe there is as another race but the biggest just arent cost efficient across the board.

Well....what about as warships with only offensive and defensive mods?



They don't scale at all.