With games like these, immersion is one of the most important aspects. One of the key-features of a good sci-fi is a decent tech-tree. Although Endless Space has at the moment a good in depth tech tree, it presents it far to modest. It is like designing and producing the best looking car in the world and then go on presenting it in a carpark at the nearest supermarket. Great product, lame presentation. Don't get me wrong: I like the look of the interface and the handling of the tech tree, but it needs some dressing up around it. My suggestions:



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Make research a bit more linear, so that there is little more a developing line of achievement. Follow concise lines of accomplishments. Even in real life the "common people" measure the technological development of a civilization by its benchmark accomplishments.

At certain benchmarks, such as the discovery of warppropulsion, we get a small message saying we did. That's like receiving a birthday-card after finding the cure for cancer. It would be so much more immersive that at certain research-benchmarks a small cinematic would play, celebrating the achievement.

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Cadoras wrote:
[LIST=1]

Make research a bit more linear, so that there is little more a developing line of achievement. Follow concise lines of accomplishments. Even in real life the "common people" measure the technological development of a civilization by its benchmark accomplishments.

At certain benchmarks, such as the discovery of warppropulsion, we get a small message saying we did. That's like receiving a birthday-card after finding the cure for cancer. It would be so much more immersive that at certain research-benchmarks a small cinematic would play, celebrating the achievement.

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1. I at least partially agree. While it is kind of cool you can take shortcuts to get to certain places in the research tree some things just don't make sense. Especially the C3/4/5 research as you can research them in whatever order you deem fit, or what ever order your playing still brings forth.

2. Well there are messages but as you know only a little bit of text. I am fine with that so I don't really feel like a cinemtaic would add to the game for me, but I wouldn't have a problem with it either.

As I said it is not relevant for gameplay, but all the more for immersion. It is delivering a good product in a presentation it deserves.

1. I don't agree so much. If I could propose something, it's to have to research all the research connected before in order to have a research. Or have prerequisites between research trees.

Now there are only few ressources you have to have before launch the research. It could be good if the research "X" in the science tree should be done in order to have the reseach "Y" in the military one for example.



2. I agree. But it should be one descrpition/cinematic for each factions...

I think that research short cuts and crossovers are a good thing, due to research turning up unexpected results in real life.

What bugs me about research in most 4x games is that you can effectively see into the future and know what you are going to get way ahead of time, and it's always the same. A couple of games have attempted to address this by varying tech that you can 'see' but not very effectively.



So to answer you:

1) I don't mind linearity, although i think i prefer the idea of further interconnectivity and pre-requisites, as long as there is variation. I really think some sort of breakthrough/setback and random event driven system to break up the certainty of the research would make it more interesting, surprising and re-playable. Instead of simply researching things in the same order every time cuz you know what you need.



2) The messages don't really bother me that much but it might be nice. I think i'd prefer some better kind of reward, such as a boost to approval for example, though

1) i like the branches of the tech tree, as someone who plays sophons a lot. ignore most weapons until midgame, only research the basics..... and then jump right into the middle of the tree, only researching the bare minimum that is necessary to get there.



2) I agree with this one. having a small, 15-20 secs cinematic playing when you research certain techs. some basic examples would be a probe going through a wormhole for the first time, a ship going to warp speed, finding a ressource on a planet after researching the tech needed..... stuff like that. not too many, and all short. maybe a dozen.... damnit i would take some animated concept arts, it doesn't have to be much.

Personally I like it the way it is.



This would be excessive and annoying:







(That's one family of spells for GURPS, and there are 14 families, all of them look like that to one degree or another)

Draco18s wrote:


(That's one family of spells for GURPS, and there are 14 families, all of them look like that to one degree or another)

I LOVED GURPS. ok, the magic expansion might have been a bit overboard, but it was fun to play. i'm totally off-topic here, but damnit, i didn't even know someone remembered GURPS v3.0. wasn't that popular in Europe.



BTT yep, Science Tree is ok right now, surely could be improved a bit, but i don't think it's a high priority right now.



I still would like same small cinematics, animated concept art at certain techs though.

Calico wrote:
I LOVED GURPS. ok, the magic expansion might have been a bit overboard, but it was fun to play.

It's fairly alright.



Until you have an effective 2 year old with Wild Talent and Retention (both for magic) and a propensity to grow bored, quickly. She gets an effective 2 exp more than everyone else per session, and there's no way to keep her in one place if she decides to be Somewhere Else. Her last trick was to cloud jump into a nearby town (a 10 minute walk for everyone else).



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Research feels a bit lifeless, and the tree itself isn't the easiest thing to use.



The design is focused more on showcasing great artwork (and my God it's really great) rather than presenting information clearly. I'd really like to know, at a glance, what technologies are focused on food production instead of having to mouse over every single beautiful icon. Save the art for the tool-tips please. Give me a wheat icon, a tech-name, and some quick stats so that I can find my farm-stuff in this sprawling maze.



As for the feel of research, it's alright. It doesn't quite give me that "opening a present" excitement that I've felt in some other games of the genre (and during moon surveys in Endless Space). I'm not sure if that's due to the stiff presentation or the nature of the research tree itself. A lot of techs feel quite loosely connected, having little to do with each other thematically, yet being related for some mysterious reason. And the inter-connectedness of the layout takes the glee out of specialization. Kind of waters things down.



It may also be the lack of a random element. It doesn't feel like scientific breakthrough. It's predictable.



In conclusion, I don't not-enjoy it. I like the "feel" of the tree a lot, and I can definitely see big potential. Just needs a bit more character and clarity.

Clone wrote:
The design is focused more on showcasing great artwork (and my God it's really great) rather than presenting information clearly. I'd really like to know, at a glance, what technologies are focused on food production instead of having to mouse over every single beautiful icon.

They have a green corner (more lime than dark green). Dust is yellow, production is orange, science is blue, etc.

Clone wrote:


It may also be the lack of a random element. It doesn't feel like scientific breakthrough. It's predictable.

Yep this is a big thing for me too. It needs some sort of variation from game to game.



Some techs not being available in every game/race specific techs would help.



Hiding unresearched items would be a start, at least then you'd not know exactly what was coming next.



I also like the idea of varying the effectiveness of researched techs, so in one game a tech would give +0.5 to something and in another +2, for example. The variation could be based on turns to complete, which is a function of the 'difficulty' of the research and the empire research power. So researching a tech further up the tree earlier in the game may yield weaker results. Just a thought!



Hell, even randomising the tree every time so that it's entirely different might be interesting, although it might not make much sense

AtoningUnifex wrote:
Hiding unresearched items would be a start, at least then you'd not know exactly what was coming next.

Ick, that only works if you've got a research system like Space Empires 3 (and/or 5). If I need a happiness boosting tech NOW, but none of the ones I can see get me that, do I research A, B, or C in order to get the next tech that gives me happiness?



[YouhavetoresearchC,andthenEinordertogetthenexthappinessboostervisible]

Good point! Part of me thought it might be more fun to keep people guessing but then the problems caused probably would outweigh the minor benefit!

They have a green corner (more lime than dark green). Dust is yellow, production is orange, science is blue, etc.

I know. You have to zoom in to the maximum level, squint your eyes, and then hover your mouse cursor over the icon anyway to make sure you're able to the tell the difference between a tiny yellow sliver and a tiny orange sliver without direct comparison. This little corner icon doesn't help much at all.