Systems do have defense values, but one of the nice things about having planetary shipyards is that orbital shipyards tend to be a prime target for invaders. If those ships have to be set to a ready status before they can fight (as they do now) then you're leaving a large number of sitting duck targets that go up in flames as the spacedock is vaporized. As Mansen indicated, the hangars protect your ships while the blockading happens, and you can theoretically stockpile enough ships for a full fleet before counterattacking. It's also quite possible that you only need a few more ships to fight off a fleet, but the ones you'd force into orbit immediately would (by that logic) be destroyed in the initial encounter...and then you'd be set back even further.

This thread has turned into a suggestions discussion. Any relevant suggestions can be posted in the proper forum section. Thread closed.

eobet, is your issue with the hangar itself, or merely the fact that it's a few extra button clicks to get your ships into space?



If the latter, why not just add a toggle or an auto-cast ability to the hangar? When enabled, it automatically launches your ships into space; When disabled, it functions as it does now. When an invasion starts, the toggle is automatically disabled to ensure your ships stay in the hangar. Simple enough, right?

Spazticus wrote:
If you go into the system screen for one of your colonies/outposts, and look in the top left, directly under the system name, it should list one of the following:

Home System

Colony

Outpost (X turns) - (The X denotes how many turns before the outpost grows into a colony.)

This is true and I think X is usually 30 turns from all the games that I've done.

hididigeigei wrote:
It's imagine it more like (actually i have never been invaded with a reserve fleet in hangars):



With a hangar:

1.Invading force arrives

2.Invading force needs to spend a lot of turns whittling down planetary defenses... your ships sit in the hangar waiting

3....and you can try to quickly build ships on the planet to stack them, and launch when you are ready...



Without a hangar:

1.Invading force arrives

2.Two fleets clash in space, and invading force wins.

3.Invading force needs to spend a lot of turns whittling down planetary defenses...

4....every ship you build gets instantly vaporized...

There is a third option:

1. Build ships on the planet until your reinforcements arrive

2. Launch from planet and quickly merge fleets

3. Kill the invader

eobet wrote:
Is that the only case in which it's specifically used? And can the ships do anything during the blockade?



If the answer to the first question is yes, and the second question is no, then the hangar could be eliminated and fleets created during a blockade could be a special case, because this smells to me like shit work.



Also, your post is more evidence that intercept should really be renamed blockade...



EDIT: Added new question to the top, in light of recent discussion... I really had no idea that settled planets started out as colonies... I see the clues now, but it's not apparent enough, imo... primarily because:



If that is true, they should really be grey colored until the become proper settlements (ie, their floating info panel should really express this in some way). What you just said is nowhere near being obvious enough in the game as it is right now, because the interface and presentation for settled systems and colonies are identical.

They also have no big fat coloured rings around them

Spazticus wrote:
Nobody has suggested that one shouldn't have ships available for intercept duties; it would be unwise. What we have been suggesting is that one can pull an intercept fleet safely back to the hangar, if it's insufficient to destroy an incoming enemy fleet, then add ships to it before counter attacking, increasing the odds of repulsing the invasion. That's one of the benefits to the hangar mechanic. Your space dock idea puts all the advantage on the invader, with no discernible benefits to the defender, aside from "saving a few mouse clicks".

But what if the world attacked is a science focused world, or dust focused world? You will at most have time to produce a couple of ships before the invader have taken control, right? Aren't your preferred way unnecessarily prolonging the suffering? And if, as you say, you pull back a fleet into the hangar, that must be done before the invading fleet arrives, right? So that's when you also would send reinforcements from nearby systems anyway, which may be better optimized for production anyway. I see no difference in your way or mine, when you drill down to the core. Also, if you only save "a few" mouse clicks, I would love to play against you, because you obviously aren't building that many ships.

Mansen wrote:
It is also a great way to keep colonizing ships safe from incoming pirates - since they insta kill civilian ships.

That's simply you describing an obvious flaw in the current intercept/blockade system. Do the police setup road blocks and let civilians walk in front of it? I don't think so, and I hope the developers will fix that soon.

It is also a great way to keep colonizing ships safe from incoming pirates - since they insta kill civilian ships.

No, what is being said here is that the hangar gives the defender the option of reserving insufficient forces, rather than forcing them to be destroyed piecemeal. If I can build two ships at a time, for example, I'd rather wait three turns, then send up a fleet of six ships, rather than send out three fleets of two ships each, which will probably get shot down as they launch. If you have a space dock, and every ship built from it is launched immediately (assuming the dock itself isn't destroyed upon invasion,) then there is very little point in organizing a counterattack from the blockaded system. How could one make that feasible, much less possible, if there is no option for having ships in reserve?



Nobody has suggested that one shouldn't have ships available for intercept duties; it would be unwise. What we have been suggesting is that one can pull an intercept fleet safely back to the hangar, if it's insufficient to destroy an incoming enemy fleet, then add ships to it before counter attacking, increasing the odds of repulsing the invasion. That's one of the benefits to the hangar mechanic. Your space dock idea puts all the advantage on the invader, with no discernible benefits to the defender, aside from "saving a few mouse clicks".

So, what you are saying is that you never create fleets and put them on intercept around your systems? I mean, if not, you forgot a numbered bullet in that list.



And if you really mean what you say, are you suggesting that ships starting on the ground, in a hangar, should not have any tactical disadvantage taking off, breaking free from orbit, in order to engage an already positioned invading fleet?



I'm sorry, I'm not buying that either, and thanks to you, you've added another point against the logic of having a hangar over a space dock.

It's imagine it more like (actually i have never been invaded with a reserve fleet in hangars):



With a hangar:

1.Invading force arrives

2.Invading force needs to spend a lot of turns whittling down planetary defenses... your ships sit in the hangar waiting

3....and you can try to quickly build ships on the planet to stack them, and launch when you are ready...



Without a hangar:

1.Invading force arrives

2.Two fleets clash in space, and invading force wins.

3.Invading force needs to spend a lot of turns whittling down planetary defenses...

4....every ship you build gets instantly vaporized...

Spazticus wrote:
Systems do have defense values, but one of the nice things about having planetary shipyards is that orbital shipyards tend to be a prime target for invaders. If those ships have to be set to a ready status before they can fight (as they do now) then you're leaving a large number of sitting duck targets that go up in flames as the spacedock is vaporized. As Mansen indicated, the hangars protect your ships while the blockading happens, and you can theoretically stockpile enough ships for a full fleet before counterattacking. It's also quite possible that you only need a few more ships to fight off a fleet, but the ones you'd force into orbit immediately would (by that logic) be destroyed in the initial encounter...and then you'd be set back even further.

Ok, so if I'm understanding this correctly, with a hangar:



[LIST=1]

Invading force arrives

Two fleets clash in space, and invading force wins.

Invading force needs to spend a lot of turns whittling down planetary defenses...

...and you can try to quickly build ships on the planet to counter them, prolonging the battle.

[/LIST]



And without a hangar:



[LIST=1]

Invading force arrives

Two fleets clash in space, and invading force wins.

Invading force needs to spend a lot of turns whittling down planetary defenses...

...and you either need to send in a fleet from a different system, or the battle is over.

[/LIST]



Unless I'm missing something, that doesn't sound like it adds very much to the gameplay, while being a constant agony each turn you're not invaded, so I still say, the hangar needs to go.

So, these are probably explained but I've managed to miss it:



[LIST=1]

What do the rings around systems mean? What makes them grow and contract and where can I see what affects that rate of change and the impact it has on the game?

Where can I see what improvements I've built on the various planets in a system?

When does a colony become a proper settled system? And can you speed that process up somehow?

[/LIST]

If the hangar would hold defensive fighter squadrons - and trigger a battle when anyone attacks the system, then it would serve a lot more purpose. I kind of agree that it doesn't make sense for Dreadnoughts to be build and stored on the planet, such a ship would be build in orbit for practical reasons.



In multiplayer, it's going to be a nightmare with the hangar system as it stands now, as defeating the enemy defenses (there are none in-game as it stands) and defensive fleets isn't enough to secure a sector. You need to sit there and fight off wave after wave of huge ships that an industrial powerhouse can keep producing and launching at it's leisure, even when the system is blockaded.

Personal preference would be that you can only build planetary/system defenses (fighters, missile bases, yadi) when blockaded, not huge Dreadnoughts and the like. (thus giving a benefit to blockading enemy systems)

Doesn't the planet itself have defenses? I recall seeing a defense value somewhere...



I'm sorry but that special case still doesn't justify having to click several times every time I've built a ship just to get it out into space.



Why the ships aren't built straight in space using space docks in the first place is also baffling to me... I mean, they're interstellar crafts... why burden them with atmosphere travel capabilities?



Perhaps I'm thinking too far, but the hangar is still shit work.

eobet wrote:
Is that the only case in which it's specifically used? And can the ships do anything during the blockade?

The hangar acts like a sort of safehouse. Lets say you have a 7CP fleet invading your planet. If you sent out your ships one at a time (when built) you'd never get anywhere. But if you let them stay in the hangar until you can launch them all at once you might stand a fighting chance or at least hold them off until reinforcements arrive.

eobet wrote:
When does a colony become a proper settled system? And can you speed that process up somehow?

If you go into the system screen for one of your colonies/outposts, and look in the top left, directly under the system name, it should list one of the following:

Home System

Colony

Outpost (X turns) - (The X denotes how many turns before the outpost grows into a colony.)

Valazzar wrote:
I find the hangar very useful when im producing ships on a blockaded system

Is that the only case in which it's specifically used? And can the ships do anything during the blockade?



If the answer to the first question is yes, and the second question is no, then the hangar could be eliminated and fleets created during a blockade could be a special case, because this smells to me like shit work.



Also, your post is more evidence that intercept should really be renamed blockade...



EDIT: Added new question to the top, in light of recent discussion... I really had no idea that settled planets started out as colonies... I see the clues now, but it's not apparent enough, imo... primarily because:

sagittary wrote:
It also means that outposts (planets recently colonized) are effective no-mans' land - for all intents other than where their revenue goes, they're non-aligned. Which in turns means that anyone can take 'em without any real diplomatic consequences (theoretically) or travel through them without permission.

If that is true, they should really be grey colored until the become proper settlements (ie, their floating info panel should really express this in some way). What you just said is nowhere near being obvious enough in the game as it is right now, because the interface and presentation for settled systems and colonies are identical.

eltro102 wrote:
enemy fleet cannot cross into those rings unless they are at war with you

Perhaps a little more precise: Other players (AI or human) can not traverse across your influence area, unless they are in war with you, or they have signed an "Open Borders" agreement with you.

eobet wrote:
Thank you for pointing out the improvements tab. I find the hangar to be a really useless feature in the game (perhaps because I don't understand the need for it) so I don't study at that part of the screen very often.



Regarding the rings, though, I just had an unknown alien fly straight into one of them... but I guess a state of cold war counts as war as well? Or it is because it's first contact?

I find the hangar very useful when im producing ships on a blockaded system