Hissho combined with Knowledge Gathering/Dustrecyclers and someone in range whose ships can be destroyed might not be countered by human players. As I said in another thread, you should not be able to have a STRONG fleet AND make a profit from it for research and dust. Sure, you might be completey at disadvantage when it takes too long to engage an enemy but depending on the map that is a small risk because you can slaughter the pirate ships in the meantime.

If you are a very good player, the others call you cheater.The game offer many options with the races, its many possibel her.Its normal that players they think that they are "the best" and "get 100% exeperience" from the game think that others cheat when ther own tactic loose.



i play this game now 3 weeks i mean, lot of games in multiplayer.I cant said that i ever see a player how i think that he really cheat.

Synaptic_AI wrote:


Point is: the rush is just boring. Boring. Not fun. Boring. It has nothing to do with losing even! It's just stupid!.

I would say in this case that you play only with people you know and all agree to a set of rules before hand. However if I join a random MP game I am there to win and if that means keeping my opponent off balance and on the defensive. Why would I want to make them comfortable?

Shivetya wrote:
I would say in this case that you play only with people you know and all agree to a set of rules before hand. However if I join a random MP game I am there to win and if that means keeping my opponent off balance and on the defensive. Why would I want to make them comfortable?

I have to agree, there is no reason to get that upset, if you dont like that then make it a rule for your MP game that there can be no rushing and kick people that do.

Rushes can happen as soon as wormhole is researched, unless the map has no wormholes, in which case gg. Wormholes CAN BE researched as early as turn... 9 i think, but it requires you to customize your race with all the techs leading up to it and pumping science. Having ships and that at turn 9 is nigh impossible. The majority of rushes happen between turn 17-25. That is a more average pacing for corvette rushes, that will have at least 1 or 2 fleets ready. Clearly proximity is a factor.



Rushing tho does define every game, if someone does it well. If that rush is stalemated by whoever, those involved will lose to those not involved, as they are free to tech up without fear of attack. Because nobody wins a protracted war, except those not in it! If the defender beats the rusher, they still likely lose as they are now way behind the other players in tech and possibly economy. In many ways the logical thing then becomes that the defender becomes the new aggressor as he may already have a large standing navy and no other way to win before the quiet ones tech out. If the rusher wins then he continues to roll around and everyone will have to adjust to that players presence, often causing them to sacrifice what they wanted to do in order to survive.



If you have competent players, they will actively assist in putting down the hissho. other races dont go insane with fids production and cannot sustain a rush for 60 turns if they are losing ships 1 for 1. Since hissho can, they are a threat to everyone in the game, and everyone should do something about it.



Let's also realize that every race can rush, hissho can just best sustain it once they start winning some fights and systems. Before that tho, they have ZERO bonus, its like having no affinity. Stop them before they start, whatever it takes. I could rush you with any race on the same turn, if not earlier, than hissho can, just because they have no affinity bonus at the start. Bushido is overpowered in its current state, i agree. Until it is changed, I think the best solution is not BAN HISSHO FROM GAMES, but rather once it starts, GANG UP ON THE HISSHO immediately. After he dies, resume game normally. Eventually people will cease to use hissho, or in the least it wont happen as much.

Kyu wrote:
Let's also realize that every race can rush, hissho can just best sustain it once they start winning some fights and systems. Before that tho, they have ZERO bonus, its like having no affinity. Stop them before they start, whatever it takes. I could rush you with any race on the same turn, if not earlier, than hissho can, just because they have no affinity bonus at the start. Bushido is overpowered in its current state, i agree. Until it is changed, I think the best solution is not BAN HISSHO FROM GAMES, but rather once it starts, GANG UP ON THE HISSHO immediately. After he dies, resume game normally. Eventually people will cease to use hissho, or in the least it wont happen as much.

Having no bonus without combat is a moot point. Most of the affinities have no real bearing on gameplay before turn 20 or so, well within the time frame that a Hissho can win their first battle.. In fact the only affinity that really has any significant effect early game *is* Bushido.



Also, it's idiotic to force the community to play a certain type of game just to prove a point. Seriously what is wrong with you people? If I wanted to play a "survive the odds game" I would play single player against 7 Craver AIs on Endless.

If you have competent players, they will actively assist in putting down the hissho. other races dont go insane with fids production and cannot sustain a rush for 60 turns if they are losing ships 1 for 1. Since hissho can, they are a threat to everyone in the game, and everyone should do something about it.

Thats not true what you say.

To the people who try to say rushing before turn 40 should be illegal:



I'm not about to disagree with you. In fact, I like the rule. I wish everyone would follow it. But the thing you must remember is, some people will play competitively. Especially when coming from games like SoaSE where multiplayer games could be very competitive, some people like to have a challenge, and some people like to press their strengths and see how far they can go.

Obviously, when these players play with more methodical players who take their time, it could lead to problems. One person wants to say "That is a jerk thing to do, because you're preventing other players from having a chance to counter you before you attack them," whereas the other person wants to say "You should have been more prepared/don't play online unless you're willing to accept what other players do."

With so many people in such derelict lobbies, this can cause many problems, where the people who don't want to be rushed have to play with the people who try to rush, since there aren't any alternatives. see this more as a reason to drop the region barriers than to form a sort of "golden rule." It would be great if you could join a global lobby and see games that say "Rushing Challenge" and games that say "Methodical" or something, and have the freedom to choose either of them without fearing a massive wait time.

For now, though, the best thing you can do is establish the rule in the pre-game lobby and get all other players to agree. And if some players don't, then you know that you should prepare for it, instead of being taken entirely off-guard.

Synaptic_AI wrote:
Having no bonus without combat is a moot point. Most of the affinities have no real bearing on gameplay before turn 20 or so, well within the time frame that a Hissho can win their first battle.. In fact the only affinity that really has any significant effect early game *is* Bushido.



Also, it's idiotic to force the community to play a certain type of game just to prove a point. Seriously what is wrong with you people? If I wanted to play a "survive the odds game" I would play single player against 7 Craver AIs on Endless.

Bushido has no effect in early game. It does absolutely nothing until you successfully invade a system. The other part does nothing until you win a battle, and even then 5% is negligible. 30% is nice, 5% not so much. Early turns all those ships are trading 1 for 1 with or without that bonus.



The community also isn't playing mp, they are playing single player simcity. Evidenced to me by the G2G votes not caring how long mp games take.



For Schemo, good players will always neutralize the biggest threats to them. If they do not then they are not concerned about winning and have ulterior objectives. Still, other races cannot go insane on FIDS like a snowballing Hissho. It is plain in the numbers, whatever any other race can conjure up, Hissho snowballed are up to 80% better across the board. I have never handled a snowballed Hissho alone, ever, using another race. I have however stopped them from snowballing occassionally.

Sorry about the rant I just got called a hacker and gotta get it out of the system.



First I want to say that I'm not that good, in fact I still got a lot to learn.



I've played with some who were better than me, some who were my equals, but most of the people are clueless. Nothing wrong about being clueless though, this game got a step learning curve. What upsets me are the ones who refuse to learn and even insult you when they get beaten.



/rant



I like to rush and it just irks people sometimes. Most take it well actually but a few make it personal. Just a while ago I played with this carebear who quit because I rushed someone "before turn 40". And if that's not enough, he started to insult me and called me a hacker. I wouldn't care about that usually but somehow he managed to convince the other players and that I was hacking. There aren't many people playing mp to begin with and that kind of slant can be very damaging.



Now the best part. His reasoning to think I was hacking? After losing the game he saw in the pie that I had 38 command points. By the way he was talking he assumed that it meant that I was able to get a fleet with 38 CP when actually it simply means that I had a total of38 CP spread among several fleets. Yeah, lame right?



/rant off



Well, that felt good. Thanks for reading!

DarkSchemo wrote:
i have made in my earlyer endless space time some mistakes versus hissoh and lost 1 matche because my mistakes.its not a good idea too send a hissoh a garbagefleet, just keep this in mind and the hissoh has nothing more like you.

Unless your fleets are equal to his, because you're the Sophons and you don't develop into your military branch. Oh no, wait, his ships aren't equal to yours - they're 30% better. Want to research new military tech? Don't think so -the Hissho get 80% more Science, meaning they're going to research faster than the Sophons and thus roll out their better tech. Okay, fine, let's assume they're equal. Maybe as the Sophons you decided to research more military than Diplomacy, because you know, that's how you play as the Sophons. Now you go take one of his planets. This is easy, you say. Nope [ChuckTesta] the Hissho player comes back, retakes his planet, and now he's back at above-full power and you're still chugging along with your most powerful fleets possible and still not outmatching him. Okay, maybe you'll avoid him and hope he doesn't come attack you until you're ready. Wrong - the Hissho player attacks and takes one of your worlds. More bushido for him.

You talk like that nobody can stop a hissoh fleet but a hissoh fleet is not better likes yours.And before a hissoh have a better tech like a sophon in example he must catch up what he has lose befor he get the FIDS Bonus.And thats a lot in round 30 or 40.A percenatge bonus may not individually seen for the one time in game, you must see it over the complete time.I have config me now a hissoh race, i test it the next days in multiplayer games if they are really unstopabel like you say.I set the race configs to assist a early military rush.Iam courious what the result is.

DarkSchemo wrote:
You talk like that nobody can stop a hissoh fleet but a hissoh fleet is not better likes yours.

Yes, their fleets ARE better. Because they get 20% damage or something like that, and then with 80% extra FIDS they can research better technologies and abuse that advantage even more.

DarkSchemo wrote:
And before a hissoh have a better tech like a sophon in example he must catch up what he has lose befor he get the FIDS Bonus.And thats a lot in round 30 or 40.

No, taking his planet doesn't remove his bushido. And as soon as he takes it back (for a good hissho player, it will take one turn) his countdown resets so he has more bushido to abuse.

DarkSchemo wrote:
A percenatge bonus may not individually seen for the one time in game, you must see it over the complete time.I have config me now a hissoh race, i test it the next days in multiplayer games if they are really unstopabel like you say.I set the race configs to assist a early military rush.Iam courious what the result is.

Like I said, get a really good Hissho player to come in and smear your people across the galaxy. And I mean, a Hissho player who actually knows how to play - not just any random Hissho player who joins your game, and not the AI.

Honestly I like the way the civ series has handled multiplayer with a small usually 10 turn peace and honestly rushing is a perfectly valid tactic and if it fails it generally means the player is so far behind they have lost. My friend and I would play 2 v2 matches in various other games with him rushing and harassing while I built up and lent him money and resources.

Henzington wrote:
Honestly I like the way the civ series has handled multiplayer with a small usually 10 turn peace and honestly rushing is a perfectly valid tactic and if it fails it generally means the player is so far behind they have lost.

Civilization has handled multiplayer very well in many ways, and I hope the devs will look to Civ and other multiplayer games when they start to expand and improve the multiplayer experience.

No, taking his planet doesn't remove his bushido. And as soon as he takes it back (for a good hissho player, it will take one turn) his countdown resets so he has more bushido to abuse.

that are you missounderstood.I mean he must bring his economy at first to the same level like the others, 100percent on 10 research are 10bonus.25percent on 50 research are 12,5 bonus(Sophons).And the sopohons for example has it from beginning, ther level iss much higher before the hissoh get a any bonus, and the sophon bonus stack from round to round why he can use it from beginning.i hope i have describe it now correct, sry.

Yes, their fleets ARE better. Because they get 20% damage or something like that, and then with 80% extra FIDS they can research better technologies and abuse that advantage even more.

but they must become the bonus before they can use it and this need a long time, i say it in a other thread.Its not so easy to invade 2-3 established systems, that take a wile.

Like I said, get a really good Hissho player to come in and smear your people across the galaxy. And I mean, a Hissho player who actually knows how to play - not just any random Hissho player who joins your game, and not the AI.

Bring me one, i found nobody and i play between 1-4 games per day on the eu-server.

DarkSchemo wrote:
that are you missounderstood.I mean he must bring his economy at first to the same level like the others, 100percent on 10 research are 10bonus.25percent on 50 research are 12,5 bonus(Sophons).And the sopohons for example has it from beginning, ther level iss much higher before the hissoh get a any bonus, and the sophon bonus stack from round to round why he can use it from beginning.i hope i have describe it now correct, sry.





but they must become the bonus before they can use it and this need a long time, i say it in a other thread.Its not so easy to invade 2-3 established systems, that take a wile.

Unless they rush. And if they do, what does a Sophon player have to stop them? The Sophons get an early science boost, but once the Hissho get their bushido it's not long until the Sophons (and all other races) lose their advantage because the Hissho are overpowered.

Fenrakk101 wrote:
Unless they rush. And if they do, what does a Sophon player have to stop them? The Sophons get an early science boost, but once the Hissho get their bushido it's not long until the Sophons (and all other races) lose their advantage because the Hissho are overpowered.

You try to refuted my argument, but you are not good informed!

The Sophons has as example:

1.The research bonus in% for ther tax(faster tech, better econmy, better weapons, higher shipclasses, more tonnage)

2.25% lower costs for non military moduls( faster expandation!!!, faster fleet!With 8 Systems the life still be better as with 6)

3.A special research that are early availabel that bring them a 20% Bonus versus enemy attackers in allied and own system.



espically the last is very nice to defend you, the hissoh must win four! battles to become the same bonus and if you are intelligent engough and do not send hin 4 single ships, then are you in the better postion.Not the hissoh.



My Second race the Craver have too well attributes and researches:



1. 25% FIDS Bonus, from beginning and over a constant time(faster econmy, aspecially in earlygame)

2. research for +4 Cp, more ships, easyer battle



The first conuter hissoh in early game, the second in midgame.in the lategame you are good or not,her are the attributes from the race not really important.

DarkSchemo wrote:
You try to refuted my argument, but you are not good informed!

The Sophons has as example:

1.The research bonus in% for ther tax(faster tech, better econmy, better weapons, higher shipclasses, more tonnage)

2.25% lower costs for non military moduls( faster expandation!!!, faster fleet!With 8 Systems the life still be better as with 6)

3.A special research that are early availabel that bring them a 20% Bonus versus enemy attackers in allied and own system.



espically the last is very nice to defend you, the hissoh must win four! battles to become the same bonus and if you are intelligent engough and do not send hin 4 single ships, then are you in the better postion.Not the hissoh.



My Second race the Craver have too well attributes and researches:



1. 25% FIDS Bonus, from beginning and over a constant time(faster econmy, aspecially in earlygame)

2. research for +4 Cp, more ships, easyer battle



The first conuter hissoh in early game, the second in midgame.in the lategame you are good or not,her are the attributes from the race not really important.

Oh sure, that sounds like a great idea! Expand to 8 systems early on and suffer expansion disapproval and give the Hissho more targets to work with. And you'll be OK because you've got cheap chips with no weapons who can get away quickly, and a boost to Science giveing you a bunch of shiney tech that you can't do anything with because your industry is crap and you can't raise taxes for dust because it kills your bonuses?



Yeah, it's *really* good.

Synaptic_AI wrote:
Oh sure, that sounds like a great idea! Expand to 8 systems early on and suffer expansion disapproval and give the Hissho more targets to work with. And you'll be OK because you've got cheap chips with no weapons who can get away quickly, and a boost to Science giveing you a bunch of shiney tech that you can't do anything with because your industry is crap and you can't raise taxes for dust because it kills your bonuses?



Yeah, it's *really* good.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.