I find pointless to mod an unfinished game

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 11:31:17 AM

And to the people who like to defend anyone with anything. If you want something to be done you have to complain about that or you can done that by yourself which is not the case

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 11:33:37 AM

I agree with your points, as i am not sure they can be edited.

However we can modify how the AI builds its ships, preferring more weapons or defenses (Before it brakes down and builds glass cannons).

Ciehoo

Newcomer

Ciehoo

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 11:47:45 AM

Well, currently code hacking is discouraged by the Devs, and even discussing it is a bit of an iffy issue. I can and did hack the code, but currently there's no permission from the dev team for that so I'm keeping it to myself.

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 12:07:57 PM

Code hacking?

Ciehoo

Newcomer

Ciehoo

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 12:12:41 PM

Modifying the C# code of the game

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 12:17:38 PM

Ahh, I found it amusing that you called it hacking!

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 10:57:49 AM

Unless modding could introduce new gameplay mechanic or remove some tedious aspects.

So far nothing can be done with ES cause all this staff is hardcoded.

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 12:31:55 PM

Ciehoo what you are suggesting is actually illegal so there is no point to go there.

I will try to explain why any kind of balance mod is useless at the moment.

With current mod system it is not practically possible to use mods in MP with random players. When or if new system will be introduced like if host has mod applied all other players automatically download it then mods become viable in MP but it is a very long shot. Now it is only SP.

So why balance mods are useless in SP.

Because on higher difficulty settings bonuses provided to an AI are so ridiculously huge that it doesn't matter if building gives you +20 Science or +40 Science, +10% Industry or +20% Industry. This difference has no matter for an AI.

So effectively it affects only human player. It can make harder or easier to archive victory for him. Well there is no point to make it easier it is easy enough. And there is no point to make it harder i can just make it impossibly hard by taking all negative traits and no positive for my custom race.

So why do i need mod then?

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 12:42:23 PM

You don't need mods, we only do them for fun.

And with even a harder AI things that effect Modules and improvements still effect them.

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 12:51:56 PM

This question is rhetorical and addressed to the actual developers. Since they are supporting modding so much. At least that what they say.

The message to the actual modders you are doing a great job. The Community very appreciate that.

davea

Newcomer

davea

Newcomer

700g2g pts

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 2:37:45 PM

CaptainPsilon wrote:
To try this i again

1) Should play with Brainless AI which i don't enjoy

2) Spend huge amount of time waiting while manual combat resolves. I dont pay attention to the cinematic anymore but i like play efficiently.

3) Click million times every turn just to move my fleets from production systems to war borders

4) ... the list goes on

This is good feedback. I am not sure it is related to modding.

For (1), the AI currently fails to retrofit, leading to huge numbers of low-tech fleets which we call "fleet spam". Besides this, are there specific things you feel could be improved about the AI? The dev team is very responsive, given specific suggestions. "The AI sucks" does not really help.

For (2), many users have requested to select the three battle cards and then auto-resolve; would this address your issue? For (3), many users have requested rally points; would this resolve your issue? For (4), are there other items you feel strongly about, which are not already requested multiple times in the suggestion forum?

If some mods would work in MP i would use them.

Mods work correctly in MP assuming all players have the same mod installed. The game does not confirm this (bug), and it does not auto-distribute a mod present on the host computer (excellent suggestion, although I am not aware of any other game that works this way).

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 2:48:39 PM

Mods work correctly in MP assuming all players have the same mod installed

Realistically not possible with random players.

Besides this, are there specific things you feel could be improved about the AI? The dev team is very responsive, given specific suggestions. "The AI sucks" does not really help.

The ai do many things random. Developers know that. They were lazy enough to implement that. Some examples:

- Battle cards. AI chooses pure random.

- System improvements. Build everything it can.

- Send attack ships one by one even if it can organize a full fleet

- Planet colonization. Colonize everything it can.

For (2), many users have requested to select the three battle cards and then auto-resolve; would this address your issue? For (3), many users have requested rally points; would this resolve your issue? For (4), are there other items you feel strongly about, which are not already requested multiple times in the suggestion forum?

That will greatly improve MP experience. Single player not so much but good to have.

davea

Newcomer

davea

Newcomer

700g2g pts

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 4:33:04 PM

CaptainPsilon wrote:
1. Battle cards. AI chooses pure random.

2. System improvements. Build everything it can.

3. Send attack ships one by one even if it can organize a full fleet

4. Planet colonization. Colonize everything it can.

1. Are you sure that battle cards are chosen randomly? I am not sure how to prove that.

2. For system improvements, there used to be cases where a building which made absolutely no difference was built, such as careful sweeping in a system with no moons. All of these are fixed, it never happens anymore. There are cases where it is "debateable" whether a building should be built, such as cis-oort satellites (increase influence radius). If you have specific feedback, please look into this thread:

/#/endless-space/forum/27-general/thread/9289-suggestions-requested-rules-for-ai-to-not-build-something

This is something that modders can improve by changing the xml.

3. I agree that the current AI creates small fleets when it should merge them. I know that the next upcoming version will have an improvement for this.

4. Different players have different opinions for which planets should be colonized. Since the AI gets approval bonuses, its decision about whether to colonize a planet may be correct for its own situation. It is true that when a human player conquers these systems and does not get the same bonuses, the human player may disagree with the decision. Currently there is no way to raze these painful colonies. But I am not sure you can call this "brainless". Do you have specific examples where a completely useless planet is colonized by the AI?

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 5:18:23 PM

Well if my fleets have no rockets and ai chooses -damage to rockets card (happens alot) then there are might be 2 reasons:

1. Bug

2. Random

AI colonizes everything because of huge bonuses. Same with buildings. AI builds everything it currently can just in different order.