I would like a weapon which hits every ship on field. say u got 1 ship vs 4-5 unlikely u win this cause ur ship only attacks one at a time. Maybe rockets with huge explosion radius. Beams what melt throught more then one ship. And i would like to see small fighters be launched from a ship attacking every ship.

C. I feel like we could look at some RPG games for some ideas, like corrosive weapons that continue melting away after striking, or 'ice' weapons that slow an opponents firing rate and such things.

Hupailija summons bahamuth zero!

*Tera Flare*

Enemy takes 9999 damage!



did I got it right? :P



or did you mean more like:



I choose you smallship1mon,

Use Missile1,

Use Kineticshield1,

good now use Laser1,

great now I use shipball and catch that mediumship1mon

A. I feel like the addition of some non-lethal or anti-module would make for an interesting compromise between affecting the stats of a targeted enemy ship, and plain out attacking it.



B. if there were any hooks that i can say, i would be simply adjusting the weapons to preform different roles, such as kinetic weapons designed for larger but fewer ships, and missiles that are extremely hard to shoot down, usually kill in one hit but only fire once a phase.



C. I feel like we could look at some RPG games for some ideas, like corrosive weapons that continue melting away after striking, or 'ice' weapons that slow an opponents firing rate and such things.



As suggested my times before, electronic warfare between opposing ships (Possibly involving dust lore/spending/other) could add a sense of war between cyber warfare departments, stealing information, intelligence plots, diplomatic intrigue and the like might help give newer and more intelligent reasons for war beyond the acquisition of resources.

Indeed.



However a module that can kill a single ship every time it fires is certainly possible! lol

Igncom1 wrote:
Physics is universal, especially in space.

In space yes but weapon and tactics derives from planet of origin. Before reality of space battles klonk you in the head

swedewolf wrote:
Race special weapons according to start planet, water, lava etc based. As no race got same influence for developing tech.

Physics is universal, especially in space.

Race special weapons according to start planet, water, lava etc based. As no race got same influence for developing tech.

So no anti-missile armor?

davea wrote:
Well, what you have there is the state of the art. To advance the state of the art, please perform some exact experiments and post the result.

but but but... I would have to play game then :/



I haven't for a long time got further than to turn 5 before I hit to boredom



But yup, have to test this when I have implemented new weapon system and seen how rockets works... after all, it's always possible to make 2 kinds of missile defence systems, others blocks x amount of missiles and others gives x chance against missiles.

Well, what you have there is the state of the art. To advance the state of the art, please perform some exact experiments and post the result.

@ hupa, long thread explaining missile interception here: http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/...sile-Mechanics

Uhm, problem is that it really doesn't answer to my question:

Based to that post each defensive module has 1 chance per turn to stop 1 or 3 missiles with x chance...

Actually reading that post kinda left feeling that none of them had tested whether one defending mechanism can during 1 turn stop more than 1 missile by just relying to interceptionaccuracy.

@ hupa, long thread explaining missile interception here:

/#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/12374-missile-mechanics



@ copperwire, thanks for the honest feedback. I have not played as sowers in a while. I agree that sowers already have some uniqueness; do you think most players would agree sowers AI does poorly? ("More poorly" than it plays other races, I mean?) There was a discussion thread a couple of weeks ago about that, but no one race stood out as being played poorly. I would guess hissho is played worst, because they only shine if they are continuously invading.



It is easy to assign these repair modules to any other race; do you feel these modules are interesting, and we could get better synergy on another race? This is just the first of several changes I plan to try out.

What happens if you have 50 weapons in a ship which all fires 1000 kinetics every time?



Damn it, I think that I just figured how to do sowers ultimateweapon. I mean who wouldn't want to stay in shower?



Anyway bit seriously topic, anyone knows how antimissile really works?

I mean if I have missile thrower which fires 20 missiles every time with accuracy of 0, can I just build antimissile system which has 80% chance to block missiles and be hit by (at average) 4 missiles?

or does it mean that there is 100% chance to be hit by 19 missiles and 20% chance to be hit by 1?

It seems that in several of the last patches, weapons have been rebalanced to be more the same. For example, lasers were the most effective so they were nerfed, flak was too effective so it was nerfed. Now the weapon tree feels too generic to me. In other games, there were "interesting" weapons, like spinal mount weapons with huge damage and low rate of fire for capitol ships; neutron weapons that did crew damage but allowed ship capture; etc. Most of these things probably aren't moddable today.



a. What are some ideas for interesting ship weapon mechanics? (Let's stay away from ground combat for now, that is a whole diferent project).



b. What are some "hooks" we can use to mod weapons today? AFAIK we can only change values on the three weapon types, and we can only put one defense in each module.



c. What are some hooks we could request from the dev team, to make more interesting weapons? I have requested access to fleet evasion (reduce enemy accuracy) to let more battles get into short range. What else would help, which doesn't involve re-inventing the whole game?

And now I want you just because you are person who asks: "but what if I decide to make something completly twisted idea of module .. is it possible to make nuclear missile which blasts billion ships at once?" and then tries to seek answer for it

It sounds nice but in my oppinion i doubt that is possible...

iblise wrote:
Check my combat modding thread. Unfortunately combat modding is very basic due to its limited nature. Change weapon dmg, salvo (doesn't effect gfx) count, rate of fire on kinetics only, accuracy etc. no game changing mechanics really, you can't make kinetics do laser dmg but you can make lasers look like kinetics etc. adjusting the number of turns per phase time length is somewhat interesting due to the implications for missiles I think I personally like 11 turn long range phase with missiles @ 3 turns to reach and 1 to reload (missiles fire on turn two regardless - no idea why)



Spinal weapons are a no go due ship positioning, you can't even adjust weapon hard point placement (ships have a built in number for each weapon regardless of the number you can fit in too). The only thing I didn't try was adding special effects - ie hero abilities - to weapons.



I wanted to try and make missiles that increased your other missiles chance to hit but never got around too it. Basically ECCM that did no dmg but decreased enemy flak fire effectiveness or increase you intercept evasion chance (which should be doable). I gave up when I realized I could not exchange the flak animation for the missile animation (I want my CMs damn it) for that matter I'd like flak to only be able to attack when missiles are two turns away and a new module - defensive laser clusters (point defense) to be able to attack at 1 turn away. Probable move missile turntoattack up around 5.

I really really really need you Iblise in Endless Dream.



I have following problem:

I need to implement completly different weapon system for 8 races (well ok, some similar weapons)



What I want to do (and whats doable in game) is:

a) Rocket swarms - non accurate swarm of rockets launched at once ... only problem is how defence handles multiple rockets

b) Intelligent Missiles - really accurate single missiles ... this we have right now

c) Short pulse laser weapons - this is easy .. and defence handles these already

d) Long pulse laser weapons - I'm not sure whether you can prolong effect of weapon to several turns.

e) Single fire kinetic weapons - Basically mini missiles, really accurate and does loads of damage

f) Minigun like shooting - This is what we have now, except that I want to implement it huge accuracy penalty



g) Laser weapons without any graphics







And now I want you just because you are person who asks: "but what if I decide to make something completly twisted idea of module .. is it possible to make nuclear missile which blasts billion ships at once?" and then tries to seek answer for it

Sowers already have a theme that is different from the other factions and provides replay value - total industry focus. The improved colonial rights tech is a very intentional part of making that work; I think the improved colonial rights racial tech is more important then you give it credit.



Sowers growth curve is not significantly effected by the "green" improvements in the early left tree. The improved colonial rights moderates that. It serves as a bonus to industry and food in the late early game which is key for getting sowers up the curve. It also works all the time with any strategy, both for a human player and for an AI ... unlike a repair module.



If nothing else, AI sowers already have terrible performance. This compounds that.



Removing something from a complex system creates on ripple. Adding something else creates another.

OK, I had more free time tonight than I thought. I implemented the following for Sower: give them a fleet repair ship which is huge and slow.



a. Remove the two racial techs for improved Colonial Rights and earlier tundra transformation, to avoid giving them too much stuff. The Colonial Rights one is useful but not very interesting; moving up tundra transformation doesn't help much without moving up admantium.



b. Replace Intelligent Tools under Neural Robotics with a new module, Nanobot Applicators. Tonnage: 160 (yes, larger than a corvette). Effect: +10% on fleet repair per turn in any sector (similar to Living Hulls), and -50% to ship speed.



c. Replace Adaptive Glue under Inorganic Biology with a new module, Fleet Regeneration. Tonnage: 320. Effect: +25% on fleet repair per turn, and -50% to ship speed.



The idea is that you can put one applicator on a battleship/cruiser class, along with a little bit of other stuff. It will move slower than anything else, but you can put a few of them into a fleet which is just behind your battle line. Adding damaged ships into this fleet will repair them in 3-5 turns (depending on the number of ships and your CP cap) which is much faster than anything else. For the more advanced module, you can put one on a DN with a little bit of other stuff.



The goal of this type of change is to improve replayability; that is, having won the game a few times as one race, each of the other races should be interesting and different enough, to draw you into replaying as that race. They should each have a "cool toy" which actually affects your playstyle. Here, the idea would be a slow but unstoppable advance, with damaged ships using retreat to get back to the fleet tender. They could rejoin combat faster than new ships sent from homeworld forge planets.



Let me know what you think. I will try some stuff for the other races in the next couple of days.

Check my combat modding thread. Unfortunately combat modding is very basic due to its limited nature. Change weapon dmg, salvo (doesn't effect gfx) count, rate of fire on kinetics only, accuracy etc. no game changing mechanics really, you can't make kinetics do laser dmg but you can make lasers look like kinetics etc. adjusting the number of turns per phase time length is somewhat interesting due to the implications for missiles I think I personally like 11 turn long range phase with missiles @ 3 turns to reach and 1 to reload (missiles fire on turn two regardless - no idea why)



Spinal weapons are a no go due ship positioning, you can't even adjust weapon hard point placement (ships have a built in number for each weapon regardless of the number you can fit in too). The only thing I didn't try was adding special effects - ie hero abilities - to weapons.



I wanted to try and make missiles that increased your other missiles chance to hit but never got around too it. Basically ECCM that did no dmg but decreased enemy flak fire effectiveness or increase you intercept evasion chance (which should be doable). I gave up when I realized I could not exchange the flak animation for the missile animation (I want my CMs damn it) for that matter I'd like flak to only be able to attack when missiles are two turns away and a new module - defensive laser clusters (point defense) to be able to attack at 1 turn away. Probable move missile turntoattack up around 5.

Dust module



A module that costs dust per module to be equipped.



-The module it self costs dust to put on a ship.

-If the ship carrying it is destroyed. the module is destroyed too.

-You have to manually put it on a ship. (Option that functions like retrofitting).

-Only one per ship

-Limit of x modules per fleet? (probably 1).

-Expensive

-Ether no tonnage or raises the ship's tonnage by the same amount it puts on.

-Can't be blocked by defenses/cards*

-Weapons target the strongest ship (highest power), always hits in the most effective range.

-*But can miss/be blocked outside most effective range



Examples: (Not definite parameters or suggestions, just here to demonstrate the concept).

Ion Cannon

Cost 1500

Effect: Fires a single beam that makes one enemy ship unable to attack during that phase.

Projectiles per salvo 1

Shots per phase: 1

Most effective range: Medium



Self-Replicating Armor

Cost 2000

Effect: +15% ship health repaired a battle phase, +10% fleet health a turn friendly sector.(Stacks w/ the repair modules).



Compact Weapon Housings

Cost: 5000

Effect: -20% tonnage cost on weapon modules